Mickelaar The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: At the layout, tinkering.
Hey all,

I probably normally would have written this on VlineCars.com forum, but it is closed for refurbishment, at the moment. So I will make it here. I recal hearing a few times the the H class stock was being plucked within the next couple of years. I sthis correct?

This afternoon I observed a P class push pull, pulling into south Melton, no images as I was on my way home from work. Anywho the front 4 cars were FSH21, and were indeed very shiny, they'd recieved a repaint. Mighty nice coat of paint for something thats aboutto chase the 4d.

Are they coming or going?

Cheers

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  G516 Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere at Steamrail
While were on the topic of carriages...

VN18 is a bit to be desired. Needs to be fixed up asap.

Rust and water bubbles everywhere (well on the ACN anyway)
  Longstroke Chief Train Controller

Location: Sunny Ballarat
They're not going anywhere in a hurry.

Sometime in the next couple of months the first of the whole H car fleet will be entering the shops for a light refurbishment program. They will be fitted out to a similar standard to the Vlocitys with each car getting new seat covers, carpet, a coat of paint on the interior and in some cases new toilets.

Expected completion date sometime in mid 2009.

They will be around for quite a while.

Incidently the N sets will be getting a similar upgrade over the next couple of years as well.
  Mickelaar The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: At the layout, tinkering.
Except the N/FN/VN sets are to recieve push button dors that the FSH cars wont be, is that correct?
  vlinecars V/Man - "Yeah!"

Location: Here, there, everywhere!
Correct, hence a similar upgrade  Wink

FSH21 was only painted last year, most likely just got a good wash!

When they're treated well, and have good quality paint applied, the paint job can stay in great nick for quite some time.
  Longstroke Chief Train Controller

Location: Sunny Ballarat
Correct, hence a similar upgrade  Wink

FSH21 was only painted last year, most likely just got a good wash!

When they're treated well, and have good quality paint applied, the paint job can stay in great nick for quite some time.
"vicrailpics"


Can't remember exactly when FHS21 is to go in for its refurb but the refurb includes a new coat of paint....
  vlinecars V/Man - "Yeah!"

Location: Here, there, everywhere!
Correct, hence a similar upgrade  Wink

FSH21 was only painted last year, most likely just got a good wash!

When they're treated well, and have good quality paint applied, the paint job can stay in great nick for quite some time.
"vicrailpics"


Can't remember exactly when FHS21 is to go in for its refurb but the refurb includes a new coat of paint....
"Longstroke"


Yes, quite weird, isn't it.

FSH21 only went in to Newport for a G exam in May last year which included a repaint, coming out in August.

I believe FSH25 will be the next H set you'll be seeing at Newport
  Mickelaar The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: At the layout, tinkering.
Do you know if there'll be any work carried out on the bogies. The H's dont seem to perform as smoothly as N/FN/VN. What about colour scheme? Still going to be the same red blue and white, or is this mystery V/Locity colour going to start showing
  wolfpac Minister for Railways

Location: Over here...
Well, that's ok then, sounds like they'll be around for quite some time yet. Don't need to worry about taking photos of all of them then!  Smile

Hopefully, then they don't turn up in the purple V/Line Corporate scheme, then, not too sure if they'll suit the non-stainless steel N/H sets...  Confused

Nice to see someone other than me gunzelling in Melton for a change too...  WinkLaughing

Wolfpac
  vlinecars V/Man - "Yeah!"

Location: Here, there, everywhere!
I'll get there some day Razz
  wolfpac Minister for Railways

Location: Over here...
I'll get there some day Razz
"vicrailpics"


Let me know if you do, I'm only in Central, barely a 5 min drive to the station.  Very Happy

Wolfpac
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

IIRC the awful purple/green livery is only going to be applied to the Velocipedes and Sprinters.  Loco hauled cars retain the very smart red and blue. (If it ain't broke - don't fix it !)

The bogies under the H sets were originally restricted to 100kmh account ride quality. In mid 1980's they were upgraded with modified springing and fitting of lateral dampers. Ride tests then cleared them for 115 kmh operation.

Because of the light weight of the cars they tend to rock and roll around more than the heavier  N & Z cars; particularly on track where the line and top are not so good. Also where there are track slues over relatively short distances (as at Laverton) or 65 kmh turnouts (as at Champion Rd Newport)  they tend to have a sideways wallow .

Overall the H cars have a spongier/springier ride than the firmer more rigid ride of the N & Z cars.

So the ride quality of the H cars is an inherent feature of the inherited suburban Harris trailer bogies which have then been modified in a cost effective manner to allow them to run at 115 kmh.
  wolfpac Minister for Railways

Location: Over here...
I actually have a shot of FSH21 in it's shiny new coat of paint, and FSH27 to compare... It certainly looks ratty compared to the fresh coat!

As soon as my fotopic site updates...

Wolfpac
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
Nah, the H sets will be repainted in VR blue and yellow with a black roof this time! Wink

Ride quality: H set - large coil springs, X'Trapolis EMU - large coil springs...
  wolfpac Minister for Railways

Location: Over here...
Right, now that fotopic has finally made the photos avaliable...

FSH27 with P15 long end leading coming into Melton.


FSH21 with P11 coming into Melton.


Again, FSH21 coming into Melton.


FSH27 really looks pretty rusty compared to the fresh coat on FSH21!

Wolfpac
  Mickelaar The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: At the layout, tinkering.
Nice to see someone other than me gunzelling in Melton for a change too...  WinkLaughing

Wolfpac
"wolfpac"
Given I work in Melton, and pass Melton south every day... it's a bit hard to not go and have a sticky beak. It came past as I was fueling up at the Shell servo there. That curve, is it a goos spot for a shot? The one coming into the crossing?

Cheers
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Expected completion date sometime in mid 2009.

They will be around for quite a while.
"Longstroke"


Not bad for a refurbishment that was a temporary measure in 1983 by then Cain Government Minister, Steve Crabb Exclamation

Mike.
  Mickelaar The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: At the layout, tinkering.
Expected completion date sometime in mid 2009.

They will be around for quite a while.
"Longstroke"


Not bad for a refurbishment that was a temporary measure in 1983 by then Cain Government Minister, Steve Crabb Exclamation

Mike.
"The Vinelander"
You've lost me now Mike. DO you mean the Harris cars being converted to VLP rollingstock, was only meant to be a temporary measure? Would have been quite an expensive short term fill in?
  wolfpac Minister for Railways

Location: Over here...
Given I work in Melton, and pass Melton south every day... it's a bit hard to not go and have a sticky beak. It came past as I was fueling up at the Shell servo there. That curve, is it a goos spot for a shot? The one coming into the crossing?

Cheers
"mickelaar"


Well then, there you go!  Very Happy Watch that servo too, it might save you a couple of cents to go up to High St...  Wink

The curve on the Bacchus Marsh side is pretty good, I usually set up my video cam just near the station on the Platform 1 side. Good for long sweeping shots of trains coming in.



Although, you could go down the other side of Brooklyn Rd, to the right of the roundabout on Exford Rd and get a shot like this...  Smile



I haven't uploaded my DV footage of the K driver training yet, it'd give you a better idea of the shots you can get.

Wolfpac
  Somebody in the WWW Banned

Location: Banned
You've lost me now Mike. DO you mean the Harris cars being converted to VLP rollingstock, was only meant to be a temporary measure? Would have been quite an expensive short term fill in?
"mickelaar"

IIRC in the early 1980s a lot of wooden carriages were condemned as being unsafe for revenue usage, so it was decided to as a temporary measure to convert the Harris cars to H sets to get rid of as much wooden stock as possible, which still survive 24 years later Smile. Someone else can give more details.

Its described on http://www.railwaymuseum.org.au/history3.html - scroll down to 1984 Smile
  Mickelaar The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: At the layout, tinkering.
Thanks oscar, that's what I thought. Cheers

Wolfpac... iv'e only just this week started work at woodgrove.... but whilst fueling yesterday, I notices that curve (Melbourne bound) and thought it to be nice.... might see if i can get out there this arvo
  wolfpac Minister for Railways

Location: Over here...
Wolfpac... iv'e only just this week started work at woodgrove.... but whilst fueling yesterday, I notices that curve (Melbourne bound) and thought it to be nice.... might see if i can get out there this arvo
"mickelaar"


Oh right-o, the Coburns Rd end is nice, that curve is great for shots, and there's nothing to block the view, save for the farm fence round the tracks now.

I'll see if you're lurking round about 4:30!  Smile

Wolfpac
  Mickelaar The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: At the layout, tinkering.
I'll see if you're lurking round about 4:30!  Smile

Wolfpac
"wolfpac"
I am not sure if im going to head out or not at this stage... sunlight doesnt seem to be 100%. Ill send you a message a bit later on, but if I do go, I dare say about 4pm.
  wolfpac Minister for Railways

Location: Over here...
I am not sure if im going to head out or not at this stage... sunlight doesnt seem to be 100%. Ill send you a message a bit later on, but if I do go, I dare say about 4pm.
"mickelaar"


Yeah, and it's pretty hot and humid, huh? We'll see how it goes. I'll PM you my mobile number.  Very Happy

Wolfpac
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

The  Harris cars ex suburban to conversion to VLP commuter cars in early 1980's did not come about as a result of wooden bodied cars being condemned, nor was their conversion a short term expectation lifewise.

In the late 1970's the VLP had not built a single new country car for over 28 years, there was only a handful of S & Z class and a few BE air con cars. The Walker railmotors were falling to bits, and the four modern Tulloch DRC were not terribly reliable.

VR and Government of the day were faced with a decision to invest in country rail passenger or get out of the business.

Prior to all this  30 N cars had been ordered for the Geelong line, and later 6 were added for the Ballarat line (as a result of a by election !).

It was subsequently decided to upgrade and retain the country passenger service.  The key elements of a capital upgrade program were track alterations at plat 7 Spencer St and a run around road at Sth Geelong, the order for N cars was extended from 36 to 54 and ultimately 57. The S & Z cars were refurbished, 39 Harris suburban trailer cars were converted to H cars, 11 new N class locos were ordered, and the 26 B class were to be rebuilt as A class. Further 13 first series T class were to be rebuilt with HEP (as P class) to go with the 13 x 3 car H sets. Also it was proposed to rebuild / upgrade the ten DERM's.

The H cars were intended to be made up as 13 x 3 car sets hauled by a P class loco, or could be doubled up as double consists in a push/pull configuration.

The expected life of the H cars ,  and P locos was projected as 20 - 25 years. (So they are nearing the end of their use within 5 years ideally from now.)

From October 1981 train frequencies were increased by one third and train operations were altered to fixed consist working. This had the immediate effect of reducing the carriage fleet from 360 wooden bodied cars to well under 100 on that one day .

Until 1983/84 wooden bodied cars still made up a fair part of the fixed consists, and as the N & H cars arrived the wooden bodied E & W cars were progressively retired as planned. (It is interesting to note that in their last years these cars were running over 1000kms per day on plain journal bearings at 115kmh, well in excess of the average 260 kms per day they had previously run. )

Subsequently the N class order was extended from to 26 new units and the B to A class re-builds were cut back  to 11. Also the planned upgrading of the DERM's was not proceeded with owing to the age of the units and their heavy body weight .

Since the initial 39 H car conversions , further conversions have been done up to a total 55 H cars . In the first instance the BIH car (intermediate car with no toilet) was built and added to make 4 car sets.
These sets have been re-configured several times very ingeniously to currently make up 3, 4 & 5 car sets.

Configuration of H sets is constrained to some degree by some cars having fixed draw bars, and others auto coupled , plus HEP limitations through cabling capacity.

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