72 wagon coal train trial at Ardglen

 
  KngtRider Chief Commissioner

Location: http://www.nitroware.net
It was fine, thanks muchly.

With that thing running though your backard and making the sound it was  who needs an alarm clock

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  simonl Chief Commissioner

Location: Brisbane
Boy, it was slow.  It doesn't look like it was even doing the 18km/h that I thought was the speed of continuous maximum tractive effort.
  KRviator Moderator

Location: Up the front
It'd depend on the maximum balancing speed for all the loco's in the consist.

And bear in mind that is the maximum continous, in other words the most if can continually put out. It might be putting out more TE at a slower speed, but the ampmeter might be well into the red zone and therefore, they would be time-limited in how long they can go that slowly for...
  craigd Deputy Commissioner

Location: A Thinktank near you
It'd depend on the maximum balancing speed for all the loco's in the consist.

And bear in mind that is the maximum continous, in other words the most if can continually put out. It might be putting out more TE at a slower speed, but the ampmeter might be well into the red zone and therefore, they would be time-limited in how long they can go that slowly for...
"KRviator"


Yes the old Cookus Tractionus Motorus principle. Cool High current flow at low speed means much higher losses in the traction motor windings hence more heat, but also more torque due to the magnetic field strength being intensified and the lower back-EMF. There's only so much air traction motor blowers can push out and unfortunately Scotty only gives each loco a small number of dilithium crystals these days. lol

One of the main factors too would be that if the train crawls it takes MUCH longer in the section and that affects pathing for other trains needing access to the track. So really heavy, slow  trains might mean you can run them cheaper because less real people are required, but it has a significant effect in other areas which can potentially mean cost increases through path costs, and potential safety breakdowns with ultra-heavy, ultra-long trains that would drastically extend distaster recovery time and load on emergency resources.

Craig.
  a6et Minister for Railways

It'd depend on the maximum balancing speed for all the loco's in the consist.

And bear in mind that is the maximum continous, in other words the most if can continually put out. It might be putting out more TE at a slower speed, but the ampmeter might be well into the red zone and therefore, they would be time-limited in how long they can go that slowly for...
"KRviator"


Yes the old Cookus Tractionus Motorus principle. Cool High current flow at low speed means much higher losses in the traction motor windings hence more heat, but also more torque due to the magnetic field strength being intensified and the lower back-EMF. There's only so much air traction motor blowers can push out and unfortunately Scotty only gives each loco a small number of dilithium crystals these days. lol

One of the main factors too would be that if the train crawls it takes MUCH longer in the section and that affects pathing for other trains needing access to the track. So really heavy, slow  trains might mean you can run them cheaper because less real people are required, but it has a significant effect in other areas which can potentially mean cost increases through path costs, and potential safety breakdowns with ultra-heavy, ultra-long trains that would drastically extend distaster recovery time and load on emergency resources.

Craig.
"craigd"


That slow red amp field was always the curse of both sides of Ardglen. It was a reason that loads were never really at the upper limit of what an engine could pull.

From Kankool to Ardglen & from Pages River to Ardglen pretty every train that comprised maximum loads had the problem with the gauges sitting on the red band.  40, 43 44cl always went into the 60min & often over it for short bursts on the curves even on mid length trains.  Full load & maximum length was always a watchful issue.

The thing is that the view of every administration was to ensure that every engine was worked to its maximum technical ability, which is fine when you have everything in your favour, but rarelly do they consider beyond the technical & into the world of reality, & that Craig is what you are really pointing at.

A great example for people to read is the hindsight technical articel in the August Australian History article about Australian or really NSW steam devlelopments, or lack thereof.  I purchased that copy out of interest, & came through it shaking my head, as the writer is void in many ways of operational reality.

His quotes about 57 & 58 taking the place of 3 standard goods engines, the technical benefits of garratts, do not take into consideration operational reality, not just here but, overseas as well. His statement that China had 8000 QJ's is almost twice as many as reality suggests.

Another great article on the high HP & Locomotive useage can be found in a Trains mag of last year or the previous, under the title  "Big Boy or Big Mistake"  This is a great balanced article on the use of "super Power" & the auther actually finishes the article by believing that the same mistakes are being repeated in the modern diesel era.

To have a long heavy train grind its way up both sides of the hill is going to eventually cause problems.  The best way to get an impression is to sit on the side of the track & feel the ground vibrate under the approaching train, (signalmen at each of the Liverpool range boxes) always knew when an 81 was on the train, as you could feel the ground vibrate as the trains approached as far out as the distant signals.

I would think the safety aspect of this would be certainly accentuated on the section from Kankool to Ardlgen as that section is notorious for falling rocks & instability in the side of the hills.  One can only wonder at what the result would be if the ROW gave way?

At least if that happened it may bring about the new route.  I have always found that the most efficient trains full trains are those that operated around 10% under the loco's maximum load. It gave a far greater margin to work & operate in all kinds of weather conditions, & there was rarelly any worries about losing time.

The older concept instead of running LE the bankers taking a full having a forward load taken to Murrurundi dumped & then each following train picking up portions to build them up to the heavier loads from there to PTW - BMD worked well.
  biqua Paper Tiger

Location: Under a rock
Thanks for sharing the video fd. Two questions though (as I've never seen the end of a banking operation before) - is that normal to detatch whilst on the move, and how do they uncouple on the move anyway?
  flying_donkey Chief Commissioner

Location: Well, at the moment, right here!
Is that normal to detatch whilst on the move
"biqua"

Yes it is. If the bankers fail to detatch, they take a nice little ride to Murrurundi and detatch there (once the train has stopped of course).

How do they uncouple on the move anyway?
"biqua"

The 80's have a chain that holds up the auto pin lifting lever, while the 81's have had the auto pins drilled into from the top and threaded, with a bolt and bracket screwing into it, holding it up.

I'll see if I can get a few piccies of different setups for you.
  simonl Chief Commissioner

Location: Brisbane
Always wonderred about that.  So it is actually attached, and requires a stop to attach, but the chain allows de-coupling on the move.
  biqua Paper Tiger

Location: Under a rock
Cheers fd - I assume it's the normal uncoupling setup, but operable from within the cab also then?
  KngtRider Chief Commissioner

Location: http://www.nitroware.net
how do they uncouple on the move anyway?


If you want to see how the americans do it (using a remote control gizmo from the cab that lifts the lever) go to Al Krug's site 'Tales of the Krug' he has some photos/description there , IIRC its on the prototype AC units/shovel nose EMDs
  a6et Minister for Railways

how do they uncouple on the move anyway?


If you want to see how the americans do it (using a remote control gizmo from the cab that lifts the lever) go to Al Krug's site 'Tales of the Krug' he has some photos/description there , IIRC its on the prototype AC units/shovel nose EMDs
"KngtRider"


The old method that worked well when adjusted properly was the lift pin under the uncoupler pocket on 48, & 49 class. It held the jaw open & allowed you to simply drop off the train at Ardglen.

To think what we went through to get the uncoupling area near the down distant put in, to uncouple on the mountain. Then they go back to running through to MDI.

Reminds me much like a yo yo, up & down,  this method in fashion, then out with another in fashion then out, back to the old etc.
  flying_donkey Chief Commissioner

Location: Well, at the moment, right here!
Looks like PN are going to do a third test up Ardglen at the end of this month. Train will have 66 NHFF's and 3x81's, with 4x80's bringing up the rear.

Link to TOC waiver 1573 here
  Mainnorthern Train Controller

Location: NSW
Thanks for the pointer. I might actually get up there to see it as I've only seen the other trials as they were heading up there. Hopefully the 81s are in good nick or its going to be another 82 class trial.
  KRviator Moderator

Location: Up the front
If they are trialing the ability of triple 81's to lift the train, I don't think they could substitute an 82 as the FSL for an 82 is a little higher, from memory... And I didn't know Werris Creek had 4 servicable 80 Class... Embarassed
  Termite Chief Commissioner

Location: NSW
Hopefully they do the test with 4 sub-standard 81's to give the test real meaning. Not every 81 class used is in good condition, yet for the purposes of testing they seem to use the 4 best just to get through the testing.

With any reason of luck, ARTC will not allow PN to operate 72 longs in the North West to the infrastructure is adequate enough to allow for them. By that I'm specifically talking about loop lengths.

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