NEW OPERATOR SOON `TRANZIT JIM pty'

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FieldShunt74 - Moderator Chief Commissioner

C'mon DavidB, quit with the negative waves already.  Very Happy

Give Jim a big enough hammer and I'm sure he could knock his train together in no time at all.

 
mjja Sir Nigel Gresley

Location: Mount Waverley, Melbourne
Point taken. I now actually want to meet this guy. What's the saying about a fool and his money?
- Stoker_Motor


I know a couple of alterations:
A fool and his money are soon spotted
A fool and his money are invited everywhere!
How did a fool and his money get together in the first place?
 
Shacks Ghanzel

Location: Sir Big Lens of the Distant Upper Hunter

Could someone help me out here please. Can we have a photo of a U Boat posted in this thread, so we know what to look for when it might just run.

 
jimontrack Chief Train Controller

You lot are sicker than I can believe.

Yep, you all have something very wrong with yous.


Just wait a few weeks and you will see.
 
mjja Sir Nigel Gresley

Location: Mount Waverley, Melbourne

Yep, I'm sure we will. No, really.

Does Tranzit Jim want to tender for the bakery contract for the humble pie for us all, too? It'll be a contract worth having if it comes off...

 
Shacks Ghanzel

Location: Sir Big Lens of the Distant Upper Hunter
I'm sick ?
I must be I keep reading topic's such as this one.
 
Stoker_Motor Chief Train Controller

Location: Halsey Theater
These used to run in Sydney.



SETS have more info on them.

Who removed my U boat pics?
 
DavidB - Moderator Site Admin

Location: Canberra

Nobody going to take a bite? I'll up to offer to a real prize - a copy of Steam Trains by Paul Price.

To win, you have to be the first to provide the electrical, weight, braking and structural reasons why it won't work.

Cheers

David

 
Webslave - Administrator Site Admin

Location: Altona, Melbourne
Jesus, this is an absolute scream!  I haven't laughed like this in ages!
 
Shacks Ghanzel

Location: Sir Big Lens of the Distant Upper Hunter

Thanks Stoker, I now know it wil not fit within the Melbourne Electric network, my guess is the bogies would be welded somewhere neat the props on the rear and if I could see a photo of the front i would have a better guess, but with iut I would say ? Just forward of the torpedo tubes.

 
DavidB - Moderator Site Admin

Location: Canberra

Does anybody have photos of Hitachi and U set bogies so we can compare bogie pivots? Then we'll see if the bogies are interchangable.

Cheers

David

 
jimontrack Chief Train Controller

DavidB

I will thank you for that question, as I was not clear on the issue. I hope someone can provide an awnser on this issue.

I am willing to buy the two cars, and see for myself the hard way.

I was expecting to find this out when, I chat with some technical guy that i know.

This would not be a total waste of time for me as

>I can still use the U-Boats on other Standard Gauge runs somewhere

>I may be able to find BG bogies off something else, or even build a set if I need to.

 
DavidB - Moderator Site Admin

Location: Canberra

>I can still use the U-Boats on other Standard Gauge runs somewhere

- jimontrack



Doing what? There is a reason they were banned from being loco-hauled on NSW main lines.

Cheers

David

 
U25B Junior Train Controller

DavidB

I will thank you for that question, as I was not clear on the issue. I hope someone can provide an awnser on this issue.

I am willing to buy the two cars, and see for myself the hard way.

I was expecting to find this out when, I chat with some technical guy that i know.

This would not be a total waste of time for me as

>I can still use the U-Boats on other Standard Gauge runs somewhere

>I may be able to find BG bogies off something else, or even build a set if I need to.

- jimontrack

Hey Jim-have you just become TJ again?

 
sthyer Deputy Commissioner

Jim

You know the biggest difference between Gary McDonald and youself?

The clue factor, Gary had it, you don't. Gary would have had a reasonable idea in his head whether you could put Hitachi bogies under a U-Boat. [1]

He also had a good number of friends and industry contacts that could fill in the gaps in his knowledge.

You clearly have no idea or friends in the industry otherwise you wouldn't be here asking questions to a collection of gunzels who may or may not have any idea.

The fact that you can't even get taken seriously by us gunzels who tend to get excited about other odd things dreamed up even though they will never happen reflects very sadly on you. I can't imagine the 'real railways' will be any more enthused in their dealings with you.

April 1 is over, now go away.

[1] The actual answer depends on whether U-Boats have body or bogie mounted bolsters, bogie or body mounted brake cylinders, the overall length of the bogie and whether it might intefere with body mounted equipment, what the weights of the carriage is to ensure the coil springs are of the correct rating, pivot plate size and probably other factors

 
FieldShunt74 - Moderator Chief Commissioner

The U boat brake cylinders are body mounted, at least on the trailers. There's no real reason why you couldn't use a bogie with the BC's mounted on it, you would just have to do some plumbing. Might have to change the Auxiliary reservoir to keep the correct proportions of the BC to AR volumes. Don't know about bolsters. I reckon that with proper engineering oversight a U boat trailer could be converted to BG and loco hauled. I'm not saying DavidB's concerns are unfounded but I think he tends to be a bit conservative in his opinions with regards to what is possible engineering wise given the right expertise.  

Bottom line is it's never going to happen but the what if's are damn entertaining. Jimontrack is to be commended for entertaining us, if nothing else.

 
hidden Chief Train Controller

jimontrack, are you going to open up to private investors?  I would sincerely like to invest in your well planed venture.  If at this stage you want to go it alone I understand but could you please provide me with an address to send you money as I am extremely exited about your proposal, call it a donation to a worthy cause.

One more question, are you going to be hiring crews soon, as I would love to come and work for you.
 
U25B Junior Train Controller

Dumb question time(cos this is obviously the spot for them!!).

Instead of running Hitachi motors with U-boat trailers(with hitachi bogies),why not try the ultra radical approach of running Hitachi motors hauling Hitachi trailers(they already come with hitachi bogies pre-attached).Maybe the reason is the hitachi trailers are considered worn out but I cant imagine the U-boats to be any different.

BTW,is there a large supply of U-boats in Sydney or do you hire them from S.E.T.S.(not YOU i meant TJ)

 
DavidB - Moderator Site Admin

Location: Canberra
Instead of running Hitachi motors with U-boat trailers(with hitachi bogies),why not try the ultra radical approach of running Hitachi motors hauling Hitachi trailers(they already come with hitachi bogies pre-attached).
- U25B

He wants to run a Hitachi driving trailer with U boat trailers, with a loco at one end and a dining car somewhere in the middle. I have alluded to at least four major reasons why this won't work, and three of those reasons would also apply to running Hitachi trailers in the same way. Come to think of it, one and possibly two of the reasons would also apply to his other idea of running a Bluebird trailer between Hitachi motors. I'm still waiting for somebody to claim the book.

Cheers
David
 
monday Chief Commissioner

bluebirds have SEM airbrake equipment, just like the U-Boats, whereas the Hitachi's run a Straight-Air system with different electric control equipment.

Also, the Hitachi's need an aircompressor running on the car, or at least marshalled next to the loco for a MR feed to operate the airbags... Pretty rough ride without air in those suspentions... (its almost the same situation as the Tullochs when they were converted to interurban loco hauled sets.

 
DavidB - Moderator Site Admin

Location: Canberra

bluebirds have SEM airbrake equipment, just like the U-Boats, whereas the Hitachi's run a Straight-Air system with different electric control equipment.

- monday



Brakes were the least of my concerns, and if there are any incompatabilities they are one of the easiest to fix. All can and have been towed by locomotives sanyway. The Bluebirds originally had EP brakes but around 1990 the trailers were converted so they could be loco-hauled as well. The U-boat trailers were also routinely loco-hauled beyond the electrified area on scout specials and the like. But there is another reason why you can't run a Bluebird trailer between Hitachi motors.

Also, the Hitachi's need an aircompressor running on the car, or at least marshalled next to the loco for a MR feed to operate the airbags... Pretty rough ride without air in those suspentions...

- monday



And if the airbags aren't inflated they would be limited to 65km/h. But I wasn't actually worried about this as piping the MR through the trailers is a relatively trivial exercise compared to the other problems I'm thinking of. A lot of passenger rollingstock has MR air anyway, such as for operating power doors or pressurising water tanks.

Cheers

David

 
FieldShunt74 - Moderator Chief Commissioner

bluebirds have SEM airbrake equipment, just like the U-Boats, whereas the Hitachi's run a Straight-Air system with different electric control equipment.

- monday

U boats have an EP brake system other than SEM over back up Westinghouse automatic. They can and have been loco hauled. I think Hitachi's would have back up Westinghouse in there somewhere too, as most cars do.

 
Brassy Chief Commissioner

Location: Gippsland

I imagine that at least two things would make it difficuilt to put a Bluebird trailer amongst Hitachis is the lack of control connections through the Bluebird and possibly that the Bluebird would not physically couple to the Hitachi. I would also have doubts about the strength of a Bluebird when in the middle of a consist.

 
monday Chief Commissioner

David - yeah only in freaking victoria!

Brassy -  Youve got to be kidding! the draw gear on Bluebirds is ridiculously high given that they are only a passenger car.

The bluebirds have stronger underframes and drawgear than a lot of the freight wagons that exist.  The converted 100/250's used on the Adl-Dwn service have not had any major modifications to sit behind 6000hp and have 3000t behind them!

What about coupling height issues between an hitachi and a bluebird trailer?

 
DavidB - Moderator Site Admin

Location: Canberra

I imagine that at least two things would make it difficuilt to put a Bluebird trailer amongst Hitachis is the lack of control connections through the Bluebird

- Brassy



The Bluebird trailers do have a control cables since they could operate between Bluebird motors. Whether or not they are compatible with Hitachi control systems is another matter. If not you could run Hitachi-compatible bus lines through the trailer. Not cheap, but doable.

and possibly that the Bluebird would not physically couple to the Hitachi.

- Brassy



This is the "possibly two" I mentioned earlier. Hitachis have link and pin couplers between cars. It may be possible to fit an auto coupler into the pocket but I'm not 100% sure. Open to advice on this one.

I would also have doubts about the strength of a Bluebird when in the middle of a consist.

- Brassy



Better not tell FreightLink who use them as crew cars at the head of 3000t trains!

Come on, bigger reason than that. Monday was close when he mentioned electric control equipment.

Cheers

David

 

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