IT'S OFFICAL R766 to be gauge converted & head for N.S.W

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DavidB - Moderator Site Admin

Location: Canberra

I'd like to see SMR 23 double head R766 one day Very Happy

- SMR30



Does R766 still have a dual coupler on the front?

Might be worth thinking about putting the buffers back on the tender as there is still a fair amount of screw coupled stock in NSW.

- DavidB



Front Yes, Tender No.

- R766



I think it would be a good idea to fit one to the tender and refit the buffers. There is a considerable amount of preserved stock in NSW which doesn't have auto couplers.

Cheers

David

 
R766 Junior Train Controller

What's happened to all the knockers ? its nearly a month since the last lot of dribble was posted.

- R766

Since when is common sense dribble?

We've all been awaiting your official statement:

I will discuss the issue of a formal / official statement with the relevant parties today, stay tuned you may learn something.

- R766

So where is it?  Or are we still dealing with those tiny issues of where its going to be based, is it going to be able to make money where its based and is it going to be feasible at all?

- Duffy

AS PREVIOUSLY ADVISED IN THIS FORUM

official statement:

Posted: 24 Apr 2005 13:57

A lease has been entered into with Hunter Valley Railway Trust which

will see R766 converted to standard gauge and accredited for

operation on the standard gauge rail network of Australia.

The locomotive will be based in NSW and operate primarily in

the Sydney basin and surrounds with biennial visits to Victoria.

Conversion work will be undertaken in Melbourne and it is

envisaged that testing and certification will be completed to allow

the locomotive to steam north by this time next year.

Locomotive R766 Inc committee.

What other official statement would you like?

The engine is privately owned, the lessee is a private company, updates will be provided when deemed necessary.

 
michaelgreenhill - Administrator That's Numberwang!

Location: Melbourne

But how do any of us know that was genuine? I assume you posted it (I can't be bothered reading back), so how do we know that you're affiliated with 766 Inc?

 
Duffy Chief Commissioner

Location: ACT

The one you were going to provide.  That last one answers none of the previously asked questions

 
ninthnotch Dr Beeching

Location: Not here. Try another castle.

What's happened to all the knockers ? its nearly a month since the last lot of dribble was posted.

- R766

Since when is common sense dribble?

We've all been awaiting your official statement:

I will discuss the issue of a formal / official statement with the relevant parties today, stay tuned you may learn something.

- R766

So where is it?  Or are we still dealing with those tiny issues of where its going to be based, is it going to be able to make money where its based and is it going to be feasible at all?

- Duffy



No, of course not, don't be silly.  What's more important is slagging off anyone who raises points that they can't answer, and boast about taking 1/6th of the time they allocated to complete the project to turn a tender and move a wheelset.

 
G516 Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere at Steamrail

R766 wrote: There's nothing wrong with the wheels under 766, in fact its 700's tyres and bearings that are rooted.

The broad gauge driving wheels, engine bogie and trailing truck once removed will return to Ballarat, with most of the motion gear all ready attached, together with the redundant ash hopper to be removed from 766 and R700 boiler and frame will be placed on these, recoupled to R766 old coal tender at Ballarat and then returned to Newport to complete the restoration on that loco.

The rooted wheels as you refer to them, will become SG with new bearings and tyres and be placed under 766.

ConfusedConfused

So R766's old wheels will be sent up to Ballarat East sometime, then when at Ballarat East they will connect the wheels to the frame of R700, then, put the frame on & everything & ,then, couple up to the tender? Then after that it will come back to Newport complete, then continue the restoration at Newport?

 
BJ Titsengolf That's Numberwang!

Location: Right here, right now, right here, right now...

But how do any of us know that was genuine? I assume you posted it (I can't be bothered reading back), so how do we know that you're affiliated with 766 Inc?

- michaelgreenhill

It is official. The same statement is posted on the Steamrail forum. This project started around a year and a half ago when WCR were in the process of winding up. One scenario would have seen R766 sold outright but a leasing arrangement was settled on. All the background work on the project has been completed. The physical work has just begun.

I'll leave the rest up to R766 to fill in as he sees fit.

Steve

SRV

 

Location: Exit...Stage Left!

There's nothing wrong with the wheels under 766, in fact its 700's tyres and bearings that are rooted.

- R766

If costing has seriously been taken into account,
why use R700's rooted wheel set instead of the good set under R766? Obviously you lot have more dollors than sense.

Having been accused of loosing rail heritage with 1 servicable R going to NSW and the chance of the class leader not ever running again, we now have the situation where the net gain for VIC is a fourth R the class leader being within a shorter restoration time frame.

Had this project not occurred, then 700 would be 30 or more years away.

- R766

Tell me how an R class is part of NSW rail heritage? Tell me if a D59 is part of Victoria's rail heritage? Come on!!! 70 R's were built, 7 are left - thats 10%!!! One of this 10% is heading into the hands of a group of private collectors in NSW who try and pass themselves off as being a preservation group (bit like Dorrigo isn't it?...) And you don't think it matters? Seven are left in preservation. Soon there will only be six. So Victoria has been robbed of part of its railway heritage.

What guarantee is there to say that R766 will not become part of this collection and never come out again? Are you sure it will ever see the light of day again? What guarantee is in place and is there one at all.

Also with R700's wheels being used, you put R766's completion back. I don't think your idea of planning is very logical or economic.

The clock is ticking.

Sorry you will have to put up with kidneys. Its either that or Spam.

 
Stoker_Motor Chief Train Controller

Location: Halsey Theater

One of this 10% is heading into the hands of a group of private collectors

- Reverend Horton Heat

This happened nearly two decades ago when 766 was sold to AVT and the Melbourne Limited people. Bit late to complain about it now.

I don't think R766 will ever revert to state ownership.

 

Location: Exit...Stage Left!

Locomotive R766 Inc committee.

What other official statement would you like?

The engine is privately owned, the lessee is a private company, updates will be provided when deemed necessary.

- R766

Missed this one. However.

Going through my rather old collection of Stacktalk's (SRV's Magazine), I found a rather interesting article on the aquisition of R766 by the syndicate.

The syndicate was formed to ensure the retention of locomotive R766 in Victoria. When Southern Cross Travel went to the wall, R766 and the carriage set were put up for sale by the liquidators. The carriage set was purchased by a NSW based group as they were on standard gauge. R766 was stored at SRV's depot, and a syndicate of members purchased the locomotive at the eleventh hour.

Basically members of SRV were worried that R766 could be taken interstate and wanted to keep it in Victoria for future generations of Victorians to enjoy.

So what has changed? The ideals (and reason for the syndicate to exist) of the syndicate have gone out the window!!! You may think you are making history, but where is this history going to be based? NSW not Victoria where it should. If its not in Victoria, how can the shareholders of R766 take part? Branxton is a long way from Melbourne and people do have jobs to hold down.

As a Victorian who loves our (Victoria's) railway heritage, I find it a great shame that a group who set out to do this originally has decided that they can hand it over to a very private group based in another state.

Now I want you to make this statement that you told everyone you were going to give Mr 'R766'.

Or were you just adding to the pool of dribble which already sits under the soles of you shoes. Silence on this matter will be considered as consent on your behalf.

I await your reply, as do many of us.

 
VRfan - Moderator Moderator

Location: In front of my computer :-p



If costing has seriously been taken into account,
why use R700's rooted wheel set instead of the good set under R766? Obviously you lot have more dollors than sense.

- Reverend Horton Heat

Ok, I'm not going to get involved with the rest of this flame war, but where's the problem with using R700's wheels & bearings on a gauge converted R766?

Assuming that R766's are in good condition and little work is needed, then why on earth would you actually dismantle them and do whatever needs to be done to reduce the gauge by 6½"?

IMHO it makes perfect sense to keep these wheels, bearings, etc... on BG and simply fix up the ones that came from R700 and gauge convert them in the process. If R700 is to be restored then these stuffed wheels and bearings will need to be fixed anyway.

This means less work overall when you take into account the restoration of R700 and the conversion of R766. BTW, I didn't see these same complaints when R700's tender was converted by WCR for use with R766 and R766's tender was left in coal burning configuration for use with R700.

 
K160 Minister for Railways

Location: Bendigo

James is on the money IMO. At the time, R766 ended up with 700's tender because 700 was to remain a coal burner and there was little point modifying a perfectly good coal tender. 766's original tender had already undergone modification to the coal bunker to increase it's holding capabilities. The situation with the wheels is no different.  Smile

 
DavidB - Moderator Site Admin

Location: Canberra

What does it matter which loco has which wheels? A loco's number is nothing more than for accounting purposes. Components such as wheels, bearings and motion gear are interchangable. You'll probably find that neither loco has its original wheels anyway.

Cheers

David

 
R700 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne

I to agree with what James has said, however, my concern is what happens if something goes wrong with R766? Is there people 'in the know' with the R class? I mean you think, when the 38's come down to Melbourne they have NSW crew come down with them and overlook how they are serviced and driven etc. Is the same thing going to happen whenever R766 runs in NSW, I don't think so!

This whole thing has many pros and cons but to me at the moment there are more cons then pros!

Chris

 
DavidB - Moderator Site Admin

Location: Canberra

I to agree with what James has said, however, my concern is what happens if something goes wrong with R766? Is there people 'in the know' with the R class? I mean you think, when the 38's come down to Melbourne they have NSW crew come down with them and overlook how they are serviced and driven etc. Is the same thing going to happen whenever R766 runs in NSW, I don't think so!

- R700



So you're saying that it's impossible for "foreigners" to learn how to properly maintain a steam loco in working order outside its home state? The Queensland locos at Zig Zag didn't come with their own crews. Neither did the interstate locos at BPR. Or the WAGR locos at Pichi Richi. Or the South African locos in Perth.

Cheers

David

 
K160 Minister for Railways

Location: Bendigo

That brings up an interesting point. What about steam loco J512, it was fitted with a full set of N-class driving wheels.   Shocked

 
R700 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne

Well they have 10 months to learn then don't they Rolling Eyes

 
DavidB - Moderator Site Admin

Location: Canberra

That brings up an interesting point. What about steam loco J512, it was fitted with a full set of N-class driving wheels.   Shocked

- K160



And what's more, J512 was almost bought by ARHS ACT in the 1980s. If that had happened, would we be having this debate now?

There is 35 years of experience in taking narrow gauge locos interstate and restoring them to working order. Granted an R class is bigger, but why is the principle any different? The preservation movement has evolved a lot since the 1970s.

Cheers

David

 
mjja Sir Nigel Gresley

Location: Mount Waverley, Melbourne

Phew! What on earth is it about those old kettles on wheels that makes some people so blinkin well steamed up??? And sooooo parochial?

Replying to the question on the previous page about the syndicate formed to keep the R in Vic - the situation has now changed in that 761 and 711, as well as 707, are operational (or noearly so) and 700 is being made so. How many do we need?

As I said above, there is almost exactly ZERO purpose in having more than one R in the state. Two, at the most, to cover for maintenance downtime.

It costs BIG money to get locos running, and BIGGER money to keep them in good condition. I'm sure we all know that. How do you get money? By running trips. But if you run too many trips, people won't go on them. So how can you keep FOUR high speed pass locos in service? You can't.

If one goes to NSW, it catches a whole new slab of the public - and the fact that it's a visitor makes it special. That will make people buy tickets.

An R trip this week, and a 38 next week. I'll go on both, and compare how they handle it. Two R trips? Nah, no point.

That's why the A2 and D3 are good projects to have. Also a Super R - but only for the people who know something about the difference. But four identical Rs - complete waste of money.

OK, go ahead and flame me for a diseasel. It's people who are capable of leaving their "love of steam" at the door and making hard nosed business decisions who are going to save rail preservation from completely dying out.

 
dalts 1985 Banned

Location: Banned

James is on the money IMO. At the time, R766 ended up with 700's tender because 700 was to remain a coal burner and there was little point modifying a perfectly good coal tender. 766's original tender had already undergone modification to the coal bunker to increase it's holding capabilities. The situation with the wheels is no different.  Smile

- K160

What does it matter which loco has which wheels? A loco's number is nothing more than for accounting purposes. Components such as wheels, bearings and motion gear are interchangable. You'll probably find that neither loco has its original wheels anyway.

Cheers

David

- DavidB

Oh for christs sake! R 711 has parts of R 766's motion gear on it and parts from other R's as well, I know as I have seen it, only problem is it has been sooooo long since I set eyes on the dam thing that I can't remember the parts and the R Class loco numbers that go with it.

 
DavidB - Moderator Site Admin

Location: Canberra

Oh for christs sake! R 711 has parts of R 766's motion gear on it and parts from other R's as well, I know as I have seen it, only problem is it has been sooooo long since I set eyes on the dam thing that I can't remember the parts and the R Class loco numbers that go with it.

- dalts 1985



I looked over R700 once and counted parts from at least 30 different members of the class.

Cheers

David

 
dalts 1985 Banned

Location: Banned

Well they have 10 months to learn then don't they Rolling Eyes

- R700

Well hello, it will be running test runs in Vic on the Western SG before it heads north, so I have been told, but I am not at libarity to dicuss where I got this info from.  Wink

 
ninthnotch Dr Beeching

Location: Not here. Try another castle.

Think the flaming is converging from three areas:

People (like me) who have no real problem with the concept, but think that the spokespeople are being silly about timeframes;

People (like Duffy, and me to an extent) who think that HVRT are a fly-by-night operation who wouldn't know the first thing about looking after carriages, let along running a successful tourist operation, and;

People (like Reverend Horton Heat) that have serious problems with the way that the restoration is being done, and thinks that there is a serious risk to a locomotive.

Personally mjja, being involved with Victoria's largest collection of steam locos (down in Williamstown), I would have thought you'd be happy that people still are passionate about steam preservation enough to start flamewars...

 
mjja Sir Nigel Gresley

Location: Mount Waverley, Melbourne

NN, I didn't notice all those, I was talking to the people who had a problem with it leaving Victoria...

On those three matters I cannot comment as I have no expertise in the area. And no opinion anyway.

Re the museum, I'm not really very involved with it - just with the society.

 

Location: Exit...Stage Left!

It costs BIG money to get locos running, and BIGGER money to keep them in good condition. I'm sure we all know that. How do you get money? By running trips. But if you run too many trips, people won't go on them. So how can you keep FOUR high speed pass locos in service? You can't.

- mjja

Yes it costs BIG money to run trips, but you seem to have forgotten about the people who work on them. You may have money, but the whole thing falls in a heap if you don't have volunteers or paid workers who are qualified to carry out the task at hand.

If one goes to NSW, it catches a whole new slab of the public - and the fact that it's a visitor makes it special. That will make people buy tickets.

An R trip this week, and a 38 next week. I'll go on both, and compare how they handle it. Two R trips? Nah, no point.

- mjja

It may capture peoples imagination for the first five minutes...but then?

The thing about visitors is they go home and don't hang around. That is what makes visitors "special". You can't tell me you wouldn't get sick of 3801 if it was to become a resident visitor. I know I would!

A trip on an R one week and a run on a 38 the next...How many times do you think a gunzel or any fare-paying passenger will do this? Once, maybe twice and then the novelty wears off? Then what happens? A group of private NSW based collectors are stuck with an R class which isn't making any money and taking up space in their depot.

Off this subject a little...

Where is the R to be put onto ARTC tracks? No standard gauge track runs in or out of Newport.

Does this mean R766 will be put onto a low-loader and taken through suburban streets? Anybody done a risk assessment?

All very well and good to convert the R, but where does it actually get placed onto SG track?

 

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