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installing lights in ho models

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      bring_back_j516 Junior Train Controller

    Location: Hiding in RM62
    with installing brake,secondary etc. lights in Ho trains ex lima B class, Austrains t class 2nd version, you use optic fibre and leds right?
    and has anyone know good ways to drill miniture holes for them

    and i have a coment to make, whats with using 'clear' (light blue) leds for headlights-it looks so unrealisatic. I mean IM using 'superbright' 3mm leds for all but 1 of my models and the one eith the clear one has a yellow lens

    whats with it?
    Posted: 21 May 2005 22:52

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      Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

    Location: University of Adelaide SA
    The 'prototype white' LEDs are what I always use to light my locos. Are they what you are talking about? I think they are made by TCS, might be wrong though.

    The look like a golden colour and the blue fraction in the light is very small so they do not have the 'bright fluoro' look of regular white LEDs.

    IIRC they have an output of 3,000mcd so they are about as bright as most commonly available white LEDs, and again IIRC they are a fraction cheaper too!
    Posted: 21 May 2005 23:29
      bring_back_j516 Junior Train Controller

    Location: Hiding in RM62
    thanks- its the regular white leds im talking about
    Posted: 21 May 2005 23:34
      cfclael57 Chief Commissioner

    Location: The signalbox
    The 'prototype white' LEDs are what I always use to light my locos. Are they what you are talking about? I think they are made by TCS, might be wrong though.

    The look like a golden colour and the blue fraction in the light is very small so they do not have the 'bright fluoro' look of regular white LEDs.

    IIRC they have an output of 3,000mcd so they are about as bright as most commonly available white LEDs, and again IIRC they are a fraction cheaper too!
    "Aaron"


    Where can I get some of these 'prototype white' LED's from?
    Thanks
    Posted: 21 May 2005 23:50
      Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

    Location: University of Adelaide SA
    Where can I get some of these 'prototype white' LED's from?
    Thanks
    "cfclael57"


    They are available in packs of four in 3 and 5mm size, they will set you back around $10 from memory, and then there are the tiny 0.8 x 0.8mm size, they come as ten packs but I cannot remember what I paid for them.

    Where do you live? In Adelaide I know that they are available from Junction Models in Enfield.

    Else, the best I can do is tell you that they are distributed (or made by/for?) 'DCC Concepts' unit 2, 144 Russel Street, Morley, WA 6062

    Or try DCCconcepts@bigpond.com they might be able to put you in touch with a local stockist.
    Posted: 22 May 2005 00:04
      cfclael57 Chief Commissioner

    Location: The signalbox
    Melbourne
    Posted: 22 May 2005 00:23
      miktrain Deputy Commissioner

    Location: Adelaide SA
    They are available in packs of four in 3 and 5mm size, they will set you back around $10 from memory, and then there are the tiny 0.8 x 0.8mm size, they come as ten packs but I cannot remember what I paid for them.


    They were $2 each ie 3 + 5mm @ 4 for $8 and  the tiny ones @ 10 for $20 when we got them

    Tony
    Posted: 25 May 2005 23:49
      mjja Sir Nigel Gresley

    Location: Mount Waverley, Melbourne
    And how do you do the circuitry? I think it's a bit silly to have the light get brighter as the train goes faster because it runs straight off the power in the track.
    Posted: 26 May 2005 12:54
      cfclael57 Chief Commissioner

    Location: The signalbox
    Thats why a magical thing called DCC was invented! Or you can always just put in a 1.5 volt constant voltage lighting circuit, so once the track power is up to 1.5 volts (train barely crawling) the light is at full intensity!
    Posted: 26 May 2005 15:12
      DavidB Moderator

    Location: Canberra
    You can also control the lights individually with DCC, e.g. turn off the headlight and change the far side marker to red for a cross. I wouldn't personally go that far, but there are people who do.

    Cheers
    David
    Posted: 26 May 2005 15:19
      Brassy Chief Commissioner

    Location: Gippsland
    White LEDs are somewhat like flourescent lights. They do not directly produce white light, but are in fact blue LEDs with a covering of flourescent material over them to produce the white light. Almost any white LED can be made "prototype White" simply by putting a coloured filter over them. Orange coloured cellophane, or pill capsules or even a translucent stain will change the colour sufficiently to tone down the blue.
    Posted: 26 May 2005 21:46
      cfclael57 Chief Commissioner

    Location: The signalbox
    Just managed to dig up some yellow cellphane! Will put the T class under the hammer tommorow (not literally!) and see if I can make its headlights look more prototypical with some cellophane, try looking at those LED's lit in darkness! They almost blind you!
    Posted: 26 May 2005 23:24
      Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

    Location: University of Adelaide SA
    The almost blinding you thing could be true especially for the blue/white LEDs. Blue and white 30,000mcd LEDs can pose a real risk to your vision, particularly if you stare at them at close range. A friend of mine at uni has an image of an LED permanently burned onto his retina, but it wasn't like the LEDs the people here would be familar with...

    Once installed into a loco there is no danger so you don't need to go donning sunnies to play trains!
    Posted: 27 May 2005 00:33
      R704 Chief Commissioner

    Location: Who cares you ain't gonna visit!
    the method i and a few of my mates use is that we drill out the hole of the head/marker lights to scale and turn down the leds like in a lathe (in the end of a dremel at high speed and cutting into it with a scouple and installing into the pre drilled hole wire up how ever u want  more fiddly than fibre optics but its brighter (up to 4 meters at full power) Shocked don't stare at it you will be temporarily blinded! trust me Laughing
    the best method ive ever seen
    Posted: 27 May 2005 20:58
      bring_back_j516 Junior Train Controller

    Location: Hiding in RM62
    And what about the people living in the past like ME that dont have DCC and dont have a h u g e budget like you guys ExclamationQuestion
    Posted: 27 May 2005 22:02
      Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

    Location: University of Adelaide SA
    Two high bright white LEDs *should* set you back less than $3 each, a very simple constant brightness circuit can be made from several diodes which cost something like 7c each. Little bit of wire and some heatshink or insulating tape to keep things isolated, and the whole project would probably cost less than $10...

    You only get what you pay for, if you buy a $40 decoder and two LEDs you can have some rather fancy effects (mars lighting, gyro lighting, dimming etc) and it's cost you less than $50...

    Depends on your budget, nothing is free, but not everything is expensive...

    Remember you don't have to do all your locos at once!
    Posted: 27 May 2005 22:30
      bring_back_j516 Junior Train Controller

    Location: Hiding in RM62
    Very True- nothing's free in this 'disposable society' that we live in today

    now can I have a diagram of the diodes, its not zender diodes ur talking about is it?

    and to control the DCC system how much is the unit? Smile
    Posted: 27 May 2005 22:42
      cfclael57 Chief Commissioner

    Location: The signalbox
    He is talking about the protection diodes 1N4004, Dick Smith sell like 100 for $10. 6 are required for each circuit. I have applied these circuits to my B, C and E class locos with very good results.

    I have uploaded the cicuit diagram to my site, so here it is. Don't say I never gave you anything...  Smile
    http://victrains.fotopic.net/p15519966.html
    Posted: 28 May 2005 11:08
      Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

    Location: University of Adelaide SA
    Thanks cfclael57, I do not have any web space to post such things!

    To run the white LEDs you might need a zener, or five 1N4004 diodes where you have shown two, (LEDs require 3.5 volts).

    1N4001, 1N4004, 1N4007 diodes will all do just fine as for the zener circuit I might have to work something out and try and get it posted somewhere.

    A LENZ 100 will set you back around $640 and a LENZ 90 will set you back around $540 (IIRC) and they are close to top of the line!
    Posted: 29 May 2005 02:46
      biqua Paper Tiger

    Location: Under a rock
    Why don't the manufacturers put the lighting in from the outset to add to the realism? Especially with DCC it would seem more logical for these to be factory fitted so all the wiring to the harness is done already (even it it means some are inactive in DC mode).

    As much fun as it is pulling things apart and doing work on them, I would rather pay an extra $20-30 for a loco with all the lights (head/marker/ditch/number display/etc) fitted already so I can concentrate on other things ... surely the cost would be minimal across an entire run in the factory? One standard circuit/wiring/lighting layout adapted to each loco shouldn't be too hard for them should it?
    Posted: 29 May 2005 12:45
      Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

    Location: University of Adelaide SA
    Why don't the manufacturers put the lighting in from the outset to add to the realism? Especially with DCC it would seem more logical for these to be factory fitted so all the wiring to the harness is done already (even it it means some are inactive in DC mode).

    As much fun as it is pulling things apart and doing work on them, I would rather pay an extra $20-30 for a loco with all the lights (head/marker/ditch/number display/etc) fitted already so I can concentrate on other things ... surely the cost would be minimal across an entire run in the factory? One standard circuit/wiring/lighting layout adapted to each loco shouldn't be too hard for them should it?
    "biqua"


    You and me both might pay extra, but would everyone? Some people I know are flat out paying for everything as it is, an extra 20 to 30 dollars might just be too much! Apparently you might be getting your wish with the Austrains CLPs (if you are into the Australian outline).

    You might think it's fun pulling things apart, but let me assure you, pulling an Austrains NR apart is NOT fun at all! - As I had to three times last night...  Evil or Very Mad

    I will be buying a pair of decoders, pulling my CLPs apart installing the decoder and checking out how the marker lighting is set up, before once again pulling apart the NRs and replicating the marker lighting and also installing decoders...
    Posted: 29 May 2005 19:05
      cfclael57 Chief Commissioner

    Location: The signalbox
    The NR is easy to yank apart, no handrails run into the shell Very Happy

    Hate taking the C's apart though.

    Are you sure the CLP is coming with working marker lights?
    The ditch lights will be working, but don't know where u learned of any marker lights.
    Posted: 29 May 2005 19:28
      Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

    Location: University of Adelaide SA
    You are right, I am having a brain fade, I meant ditch lights not marker lights...
    Posted: 29 May 2005 19:50
      cfclael57 Chief Commissioner

    Location: The signalbox
    It's funny that some people ask if I can operate the ditch lights separately on conventional DC power. The answer now is yes! I found that if the loco is DCC equipped, and the headlights and ditchlights are separated by individual decoder functions, the last functions that were ON when the loco was on DCC will also go ON with DC. ie; On DCC I have just run Cs4 with only its ditch lights on, I take Cs4 and use it on DC power, only the ditch lights go on. Same for the headlights.

    The only way Austrains can isolate the ditch lights and head lights is to have separate switches for both, which is highly inconvenient as you would need to pick the model up to change the lighting patterns.
    Posted: 29 May 2005 23:54
      biqua Paper Tiger

    Location: Under a rock
    The only way Austrains can isolate the ditch lights and head lights is to have separate switches for both, which is highly inconvenient as you would need to pick the model up to change the lighting patterns.
    "cfclael57"

    I still think it better if the lights are there from the outset though, even if they are not in use unless a chip is installed ... and I think marker lights are every bit as important as ditch lights, if not more so ...

    You and me both might pay extra, but would everyone? Some people I know are flat out paying for everything as it is, an extra 20 to 30 dollars might just be too much!
    "Aaron"

    I guess it comes down to whether it's worth paying extra (with reason) for that extra bit of realism ... I have to budget for each purchase (the joys of being married Rolling Eyes ), but also take into account any work I plan to do post-purchase, meaning I'm am budgeting more already - I think most people could stretch that extra bit if they considered it was worth it Very Happy
    Posted: 30 May 2005 07:22

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