Location: Western Australia
I should point out that in the early 90's I was too young to remember so you are likely right. But in the past 15 or so years they havent worked down this way much at all.
ARG/QR Locos and movements
DBclass
Chief Commissioner
Location: Western Australia
djukinX1016
Deputy Commissioner
Well that is interesting. I suspected either that, or crew training. I suppose they have more locos up in Geraldton then they need to allow this to happen. Or have we lost some ACN class to up there. I noted an S class hauling the caustic train to Alcoa, which could be hauled by an A class. The P class with a little more hp then the DB would probably do a better job.
Is there any particular reason for storing the DB class, ie reliability, fuel economy? Or is this part of Aurizons rationalisation.
The availability of P class has come about due to:
-the loss of the grain haulage contract
-P2505 & P2517 rebuilt and returned to WA, plus P2516 also returning to service
-3 P class freed up from Albany Woodchips and replaced by 3 DFZ and I think the spare P at Avon has also been relocated.
Meaning all 17 are all working and Narngulu now has 10 or 11 for its needs.
DBclass
Chief Commissioner
Location: Western Australia
Upon reflection, spreading the classes around is actually the reverse of what their trying to achieve. I would have thought keeping like classes in a common depot would keep spare parts local and reduce inventory, which is one of their goals. Hmmm.
Wonder what the future holds for the DB class? Retirement in Africa lol. They are still owned by a leasing company aren't they? So maybe they will see use elsewhere in Oz if Aurizon disposes them.
Why did they keep the DFZ's, their class rationalistion is meant to weed out small classes. Seems getting rid of the DFZ's and keeping the P class down in Albany is the way to go. Esp with them trying to replace the DB class.
Wonder what the future holds for the DB class? Retirement in Africa lol. They are still owned by a leasing company aren't they? So maybe they will see use elsewhere in Oz if Aurizon disposes them.
Why did they keep the DFZ's, their class rationalistion is meant to weed out small classes. Seems getting rid of the DFZ's and keeping the P class down in Albany is the way to go. Esp with them trying to replace the DB class.
DBclass
Chief Commissioner
Location: Western Australia
Does 2517 have DP function? I cant remember if the ACN's down here do or not, I would think they do, but maybe that is one of their ideas, as they have been playing with combined trains to and from Worsley.
Sulla1
Chief Commissioner
On paper at least the DFZ/2300 class should use less fuel than the DA/DB/2170 classes so that may be the attraction. The turbo 12-645 Clydes also make up the largest single Clyde-era group in the Aurizon fleet now, which for parts and servicing might also work in the DFZ's favour
darsamalx
Locomotive Fireman
In regards to P2517, it's not DPU fitted, it *may* still have Locotrol though. ACNs have DPU function as part of their software package.
M636C
Minister for Railways
On paper at least the DFZ/2300 class should use less fuel than the DA/DB/2170 classes so that may be the attraction. The turbo 12-645 Clydes also make up the largest single Clyde-era group in the Aurizon fleet now, which for parts and servicing might also work in the DFZ's favour
The only surprising part of that is that Clyde built none of them with the 12-645E3, all of them arriving with a blower 12-645 or a blower 16-645. The first Clyde built QR locomotives with a turbocharged engine were the 4000 class (which had the 12N-710G3).
M636C
Sulla1
Chief Commissioner
The only surprising part of that is that Clyde built none of them with the 12-645E3, all of them arriving with a blower 12-645 or a blower 16-645. The first Clyde built QR locomotives with a turbocharged engine were the 4000 class (which had the 12N-710G3).
M636C
I just find it easier to group the Clyde/EMDs and QR-rebuilds together as they generally remain distinct from the later Downer-EDI/EMD products, but yes, no arguments the 2300s and 2250s were products of QR or it's successors. Maybe they should be referred to as 'Redbanks'.
8888
Chief Commissioner
Location: Shire of Mundaring
There is another ACN and a P class coming south of Narngulu tonight, so perhaps they too could be relocated to the south-west.
djukinX1016
Deputy Commissioner
Upon reflection, spreading the classes around is actually the reverse of what their trying to achieve. I would have thought keeping like classes in a common depot would keep spare parts local and reduce inventory, which is one of their goals. Hmmm.
Wonder what the future holds for the DB class? Retirement in Africa lol. They are still owned by a leasing company aren't they? So maybe they will see use elsewhere in Oz if Aurizon disposes them.
Why did they keep the DFZ's, their class rationalistion is meant to weed out small classes. Seems getting rid of the DFZ's and keeping the P class down in Albany is the way to go. Esp with them trying to replace the DB class.
Only thing I can think of is that the DFZ's are basically 2300 class of which there are quite a number in Queensland (excepting of course the ones with rebuilt cabs), similar I suppose to the ACN's which are 4100's.
M636C
Minister for Railways
Why did they keep the DFZ's, their class rationalistion is meant to weed out small classes. Seems getting rid of the DFZ's and keeping the P class down in Albany is the way to go. Esp with them trying to replace the DB class.
Fuel Consumption.
The DFZ isn't really a "D" since it has a turbocharged 12-645E3 engine rather than the 16-645E blower engine in D, DAZ, DBZ and DC classes.
The EMD turbocharger is driven by the engine until about notch 6 at which time it runs free. The power that is used to drive the blower in in all roots blower engines at full power is available in the alternator. This significantly improves the fuel consumption.
If you look at the Aurizon paper, improvement in average fuel consumption for the fleet is a major aim. So using DFZs or Ps instead of DBs where possible will do this.
The DBs are still around because being heavy locomotives they are still useful in the South West but I think they will go in the next wave of withdrawals.
M636C
Wallip
Chief Commissioner
Location: Perth
Bit of an unusual one this morning, with the Cockburn Cement shuttle from West Kal to Parkeston comprising of AC4308, LZ3119 and LZ3120 da + 7 APNY wagons.
Must have been a heavy batch of cement today
Must have been a heavy batch of cement today
darsamalx
Locomotive Fireman
ACN4142 now appears to be working off Picton Depot and yesterday (Friday) P2508 was on an Alumina train in multi with S3302. Nice bit of variety in the area currently.
DBclass
Chief Commissioner
Location: Western Australia
What do the S class do up in Kwinana? There are very few down here (Picton) and the once boring locos are actually interesting now and not seen very often. I think compared to the ACN's they are more interesting to look at. What surprised me, I think it was ACN 4142, is it's working the caustic train to Alcoa. One of the most trivial tasks. Yet, I havent seen one on a caustic train to Worsley where the HP+AC traction would be put to use.
4142 has spalled? wheels by the sound of it. Very rough running like there is metal picked up from elsewhere stuck on the running surface. I was going to ask if this is a common issue with AC traction locomotives or not.
4142 has spalled? wheels by the sound of it. Very rough running like there is metal picked up from elsewhere stuck on the running surface. I was going to ask if this is a common issue with AC traction locomotives or not.
JNSymes
Junior Train Controller
I know the Kwinana S class run the Alcoa bauxite trains between Kwinana & Pinjarra at least. Not sure what else they do
DBclass
Chief Commissioner
Location: Western Australia
ACN 4142's B end bogie is running very rough and getting worse by the day. I wonder if they notice? I imagine they would, and maybe its not an issue. Still on Caustic to Alcoa.
P class at last sighting was in the sheds at Picton. It was out on the back road in storage. Not sure if its coming online or not.
Still 2 x DB class on the Caustic to Worsley Alumina.
P class at last sighting was in the sheds at Picton. It was out on the back road in storage. Not sure if its coming online or not.
Still 2 x DB class on the Caustic to Worsley Alumina.
DBclass
Chief Commissioner
Location: Western Australia
It would appear that P 2517 + PA 2819 will be running the Caustic train to Worsley as they are hooked up ready to go. Cannot wait for the sound.
WAGR_trains
Assistant Commissioner
It would appear that P 2517 + PA 2819 will be running the Caustic train to Worsley as they are hooked up ready to go. Cannot wait for the sound.
Considering they were towing two DBZs it looked ok, but would have sounded better if the DBZs were up front!
DBclass
Chief Commissioner
Location: Western Australia
Considering they were towing two DBZs it looked ok, but would have sounded better if the DBZs were up front!
Which direction were they travelling?
I saw them the P/PA today heading up the hill pretty sure. Not sure how the 28 will go up the hill. I thought they were better suited to mainline work. However the P class will do the job. Maybe its a good combination?
Kafoopsy
Chief Commissioner
Location: Perth, WA
P2511 was dropping ballast between Brixton Street and Albany Hwy this morning. First time I have seen a P class in ages, probably since they stopped doing grain trains.
DBclass
Chief Commissioner
Location: Western Australia
Which direction were they travelling?
I saw them the P/PA today heading up the hill pretty sure. Not sure how the 28 will go up the hill. I thought they were better suited to mainline work. However the P class will do the job. Maybe its a good combination?
In recent days the PA was dropped from the set, with an S class leading the P class 2517, and now, the P has been dropped with a PA + S Class combination with 18 Caustic wagons.
DBclass
Chief Commissioner
Location: Western Australia
P2511 was dropping ballast between Brixton Street and Albany Hwy this morning. First time I have seen a P class in ages, probably since they stopped doing grain trains.
I happened to be in Perth on Tuesday, a rare day for me to be in Perth. I noticed it working a rail train around Forrestfield and out towards Midland.
Is it still OK to ride locomotives these days? I heard it was not allowed for personnell to ride on the running boards.
DBclass
Chief Commissioner
Location: Western Australia
AURIZON seem to be trialling distributed power between Bunbury Port and Worsley Alumina. Using an S + 9JK's + S + 44XF's. The train is split at each end with the locomotives each doing their own loading / unloading and rejoined when complete.
The distributed power setup uses two silver boxes marked LEAD 1 and TAIL 1, connecting to I think 2 of the air hoses, and the MU cable. One box on each locomotive which would be a radio linked I would think, with an aerial up to the cab window area. The boxes are hung off the front handrails and strapped across the front of the nose.
This seems to be a progression from having distributed power with manned locomotives.
I watched the train pull up the grade into Worsley and it made it up the hill at a faster pace with a lower power setting then either an alumina or caustic train, so I think combining 2 trains into one would not only save track space but also make a shorter trip.
If anyone has any comments to add on the reason of using S class rather then DP equipped ACN's I'd be happy to hear. I suspect that these are lower earing services and they cannot afford having the ACN's on them.
The distributed power setup uses two silver boxes marked LEAD 1 and TAIL 1, connecting to I think 2 of the air hoses, and the MU cable. One box on each locomotive which would be a radio linked I would think, with an aerial up to the cab window area. The boxes are hung off the front handrails and strapped across the front of the nose.
This seems to be a progression from having distributed power with manned locomotives.
I watched the train pull up the grade into Worsley and it made it up the hill at a faster pace with a lower power setting then either an alumina or caustic train, so I think combining 2 trains into one would not only save track space but also make a shorter trip.
If anyone has any comments to add on the reason of using S class rather then DP equipped ACN's I'd be happy to hear. I suspect that these are lower earing services and they cannot afford having the ACN's on them.
Trainplanner
Chief Commissioner
Location: Along the Line
Your observation is interesting. In 2012 I had the good fortune of meeting a Cananadian Pacific senior operations guy ex Driver who is based at Kamloops and manages train operations across the Rockies. He believes distributed power operation apart from improving train handling also results in a a slight increase in speed.
DBclass
Chief Commissioner
Location: Western Australia
I wonder what the difference between speeds is on long DP trains. Perhaps someone from the Pilbara can elaborate. I know they do it for coupler force reasons mainly though.
My point was regaurding horsepower per ton which on this combined train is greater then the average between two separate movements. Even having 2 combined caustic + alumina trains, the motive power tied up is the same, the HP/t uphill is greater, the HP/t downhill is greater, the track space is less, loading at each end is more fluent, crewing is possibly less. Looks like a good deal. Westrail used to run half a dozen caustic wagons infront of each alumina train to Worsley with the train hauled by two DB class and shunt the train at each end. But each train had 2 drivers anyway so it was easy. Having a single caustic train requires either two drivers or drive in shunters to split the train each end.
My point was regaurding horsepower per ton which on this combined train is greater then the average between two separate movements. Even having 2 combined caustic + alumina trains, the motive power tied up is the same, the HP/t uphill is greater, the HP/t downhill is greater, the track space is less, loading at each end is more fluent, crewing is possibly less. Looks like a good deal. Westrail used to run half a dozen caustic wagons infront of each alumina train to Worsley with the train hauled by two DB class and shunt the train at each end. But each train had 2 drivers anyway so it was easy. Having a single caustic train requires either two drivers or drive in shunters to split the train each end.
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