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alltrainzfan
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Sep 19, 2005
Last Visited: Jul 30, 2010
Location: At Many of Places Yet Nowhere
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| alltrainzfan |
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Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 7:18 pm
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When I jumped onto a R/S Set this afternoon, I went onto a carraige that used to be a Driving Trailer (I could see due to the bowed end). What interested me was that this driving trailer didn't look as though it had a guard's door, due to the fact that the windows on the end were so close together, and a guard's door was not prominent on the outside. Then it hit me. The Series 1 Double Deck "U"s (1970 ones) didn't have a guard's door on the driving trailer either. Then, on all second series ones, they had the guard's doors on them. What was all this about?
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northern
Locomotive Fireman
Joined: May 05, 2003
Last Visited: Oct 20, 2008
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Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 8:04 pm
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The first Comeng Driving trailers (D4011 - D4020) were built without a driver's door and a compressor, in order to provide extra seating capacity. Drivers complained about the lack of these key features and were reluctant to drive them. The following carriages (D4021 - D4095) were equipped with a compressor and the driver's door. During the early 1980s more than fifty 2-car sets had been marshalled.
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WaterfallDJ
Chief Train Controller
Joined: Mar 17, 2005
Last Visited: Jun 20, 2006
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Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 9:16 pm
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No compressors on driving trailers D4001-D4099
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Electra
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Jun 06, 2004
Last Visited: Aug 18, 2008
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Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 1:26 am
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Correct me if I'm wrong: double deck driving trailers D4021 - D4095 essentially used the motor car body shell for cars C3741 - C3765 and C3858 - C3986, although there was no flat roof area at the No.1 (non-driving end) of those driving trailers.
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thadocta
Assistant Commissioner
Joined: Apr 18, 2004
Last Visited: Jul 30, 2010
Location: Katoomba
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Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 5:52 am
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| Electra wrote: | | Correct me if I'm wrong: double deck driving trailers D4021 - D4095 essentially used the motor car body shell for cars C3741 - C3765 and C3858 - C3986, although there was no flat roof area at the No.1 (non-driving end) of those driving trailers. |
Ok, you are wrong - the middle section of the carriage - the upper/lower deck parts - are longer on the trailers compared to the motors, so not the same body. Check out the windows on the two types.
Dave
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hanovale
Deputy Commissioner
Joined: Nov 19, 2005
Last Visited: Jul 30, 2010
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| hanovale |
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Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 10:31 am
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Thadocta you probably should read Electra's post again because as it stands at the moment he's right and you're wrong. He's talking about a specific set of driver trailers, you appear to be talking about the T series Comeng trailers and/or the D4011-4020 series of driver trailers.
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FieldShunt74
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Nov 06, 2004
Last Visited: Jul 30, 2010
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| FieldShunt74 |
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Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 11:50 am
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"Series 1 Driving Trailers??" is a problematic title. The first series of Comeng S set cars were only motor cars, nary a trailer, driving or otherwise, to be seen. Any driving trailers must therefore belong to series 2, 3, or 4.
Vote Maori - that's not a request, bro. |
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M636C
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Aug 18, 2005
Last Visited: Jul 30, 2010
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Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 1:12 pm
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| FieldShunt74 wrote: | | "Series 1 Driving Trailers??" is a problematic title. The first series of Comeng S set cars were only motor cars, nary a trailer, driving or otherwise, to be seen. Any driving trailers must therefore belong to series 2, 3, or 4. |
But they were the first series of driving trailers! There were only two major design variations, the first batch of cars painted red and the remainder which were unpainted stainless steel. While there may have been minor changes in the later orders (like yellow painted frame ends and blue bogies) all the later motor cars were basically the same. Similarly there were only minor changes in the trailer cars, too.
M636C
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FieldShunt74
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Nov 06, 2004
Last Visited: Jul 30, 2010
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| FieldShunt74 |
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Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 1:59 pm
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They weren't the first series of driving trailers ever though, were they? Weren't there driving trailers for the 'standard' cars? 
| M636C wrote: | | There were only two major design variations, the first batch of cars painted red and the remainder which were unpainted stainless steel. |
Never the less, the later cars can be differentiated from each other and CityRail even goes to the trouble of doing so in the TOC manual.
Vote Maori - that's not a request, bro. |
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Electra
Chief Commissioner
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Last Visited: Aug 18, 2008
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:03 am
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The first series of driving trailers were the wooden ones (photos of which I posted about a year or two ago somewhere in these forums). These cars were accommodated within the D4001-D4009 range, although D4006 later became D4000 and there were two D4004 and D4008 cars.
Six steel 'Standard' driving trailers - D4051-D4056 - converted from 'Standard' trailers. Cars D4051, D4052 and D4056 were later renumbered D4672-D4674 respectively. One of these cars, D4052, is currently in Railcorp's heritage fleet.
Four steel 'Tulloch' driving trailers - D4057-D4060 - converted from 'Tulloch' trailers. These cars were later renumbered D4675-D4678.
Later driving trailers were of the double deck kind.
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Electra
Chief Commissioner
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:05 am
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| FieldShunt74 wrote: | They weren't the first series of driving trailers ever though, were they? Weren't there driving trailers for the 'standard' cars?
| M636C wrote: | | There were only two major design variations, the first batch of cars painted red and the remainder which were unpainted stainless steel. |
Never the less, the later cars can be differentiated from each other and CityRail even goes to the trouble of doing so in the TOC manual. |
In what way are they differentiated?
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Electra
Chief Commissioner
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:00 am
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| M636C wrote: | | FieldShunt74 wrote: | | "Series 1 Driving Trailers??" is a problematic title. The first series of Comeng S set cars were only motor cars, nary a trailer, driving or otherwise, to be seen. Any driving trailers must therefore belong to series 2, 3, or 4. |
But they were the first series of driving trailers! There were only two major design variations, the first batch of cars painted red and the remainder which were unpainted stainless steel. While there may have been minor changes in the later orders (like yellow painted frame ends and blue bogies) all the later motor cars were basically the same. Similarly there were only minor changes in the trailer cars, too.
M636C |
Cars C3805-C3857 were built to originally match Tulloch cars T4841, T4842 and T4845-T4895. They had different roof ventilators compared with later Comeng power cars, and had plain body panels at certain locations to match the plain panelling of the Tulloch cars. Cars C3805-C3857 were also the last Sydney cars to be built with angled ends at both ends of the vehicle, and the last cars painted red
Cars C3805-C3843 were originally painted venetian red; cars C3844-C3857 were painted in the first blue & white colour scheme, and by the end of 1972 red cars C3813, C3830, C3832 & C3833 had also been repainted in that livery. All other blue & white repaints received the second version of the blue & white livery: however, cars C3817 & C3829 missed out on the blue & white, as did early withdrawal C3825.
The second batch, comprising 106 cars, were originally intended for the Eastern Suburbs Railway; these cars being the first unpainted d/d cars:
C3858-C3911 - control motors.
D4011-D4020 - driving trailers.
T4921-T4962 - trailers.
Subsequent batches of Comeng cars:
C3912-C3936, T4963-T4987.
C3937-C3961, D4021-D4045.
C3962-C3986, D4046-D4070.
C3741-C3765, D4071-D4095.
The driving trailers D4021-D4095 basically used the power car bodyshell without the flat area on the roof for a pantograph.
After the Comeng cars, the next driving trailers were D4096-D4099 for what were originally the two-car R sets (coupled to C3501-C3504).
All sets in the Sydney d/d suburban fleet from the Tangaras onwards have had a driving trailer at each end of a 4-car block.
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Electra
Chief Commissioner
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:09 am
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| hanovale wrote: | | Thadocta you probably should read Electra's post again because as it stands at the moment he's right and you're wrong. He's talking about a specific set of driver trailers, you appear to be talking about the T series Comeng trailers and/or the D4011-4020 series of driver trailers. |
Thanks, Hanovale.
Trailers T4963-T4987 had 3 vents along each side between upper and lower decks, whereas trailers T4921-T4962 only had 2 vents in that location. T4963 also rode on the Comeng designed CT-22 bogies for some time after its delivery.
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Electra
Chief Commissioner
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:14 pm
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Here's the deployment of Comeng d/d driving trailers with Comeng and Goninan d/d motor cars as at 23 June 1983:
T1 - C3864. D4078. T2 - C3827. D4086. T3 - C3916. D4058.
T4 - C3811. D4031. T5 - C3980. D4081. T6 - C3806. D4041.
T7 - C3054. D4063. T8 - C3013. D4093. T9 - C3026. D4095.
T10 - C3023. D4034. T11 - C3836. D4052. T12 - C3856. D4079.
T13 - C3874. D4049. T14 - C3871. D4050. T15 - C3003. D4073.
T16 - C3043. D4094. T17 - C3078. D4072. T18 - C3920. D4077.
T19 - No cars in set. T20 - C3034. D4029. T21 - C3914. D4066.
T22 - C3017. D4088. T23 - C3886. D4061. T24 - C3753. D4067.
T25 - C3002. D4064. T26 - C3952. D4089. T27 - C3907. D4069.
T28 - C3842. D4057. T29 - C3909. D4083. T30 - C3878. D4075.
T31 - C3919. D4042. T32 - C3965. D4035. T33 - C3942. D4071.
T34 - C3855. D4065. T35 - C3925. D4070. T36 - C3014. D4046.
T37 - No cars in set. T38 - C3070. D4032. T39 - C3761. D4074.
T40 - C3837. D4080. T41 - C3947. D4087. T42 - C3939. D4047.
T43 - C3765. D4068. T44 - C3008. D4039. T45 - C3033. D4053.
T46 - C3061. D4082. T47 - C3050. D4020. T48 - C3956. D4059.
T49 - No cars in set. T50 - C3866. D4036. T51 - C3867. D4060.
T52 - C3846. D4030. T53 - C3961. D4033. T54 - C3062. D4040.
T55 - C3029. D4076. T56 - No cars in set. T57 - C3918. D4028.
T58 - C3748. D4051. T59 - No cars in set. T60 - C3004. D4038.
where cars in the above list numbered within the C3001 - C3080 range are Goninan cars and the rest, are Comeng cars.
And for the early Goninan-built (i.e. pre-Tangara) d/d driving trailers as at 23 June 1983:
R1 - C3503. D4098. D4096. C3501. C3550. T4216. C3502. D4097. (8-car set). Spare cars: C3504. D4099.
Comeng d/d driving trailers in sets containing Comeng and Goninan d/d motor cars and/or Tulloch d/d trailers, where such Comeng d/d driving trailers are being used as ordinary trailers, as at 23 June 1983:
S1 - C3025. D4019. [incomplete set].
S3 - C3069. D4085. T4126. C3813.
S22 - C3757. T4106. D4016. C3814.
S24 - C3756. T4864. D4037. C3950.
S27 - C3948. T4850. D4044. C3951.
S29 - C3742. T4964. D4020. C3913.
S53 - C3036. D4043. D4056. C3071.
S58 - C3863. T4140. D4090. C3983.
S75 - C3028. D4092. T4881. C3984.
S78 - C3049. T4925. D4015. C3883.
S85 - C3763. T4843. D4091. C3861
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FieldShunt74
Chief Commissioner
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| FieldShunt74 |
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:36 pm
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| Electra wrote: | | In what way are they differentiated? |
Series 4 are easily spotted by the 37NN numbers. They're also shown with a heavier tare weight than series 2/3. Aside from numbering I'd wager that a study of cab layout would enable blind recognition of a car's place in the scheme of things. CityRail care enough to refer to various series of Comeng cars so there's got to be something in it.
Interestingly the current driving trailers 4001 - 4010 are referred to as being Series 4 Comeng cars. They are labeled by the production batch they came from, not their place in a sequence of driving trailers. I think this vindicates somewhat my call on the ambiguity of the original thread title.
Vote Maori - that's not a request, bro. |
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