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ThatGuyOverThere
Deputy Commissioner
Joined: Dec 26, 2003
Last Visited: Dec 21, 2009
Location: Vocation: Migration: Animation:
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| ThatGuyOverThere |
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Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 6:54 pm
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Evenin',
A couple of weeks ago I was returning from Uni, when the Pakenham train I was on departed Dandenong with it's doors still wide open. It wasn't until it was just past the platform that the doors finally closed, but this prompted me to ask if there an alarm which alerts the driver that doors are open? Or is there no protection system at all?
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Hitachi_Man
Chief Commissioner
Joined: May 29, 2005
Last Visited: Jun 3, 2008
Location: Melbourne.
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| Hitachi_Man |
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Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:28 pm
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On X'traps ans Siemens the train wont depart unless the doors are closed (or the protection is bypassed on the X'traps). There is no real protection on a Comeng or Hitachi just light up buttons I believe.
Signature.
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197M-1981T-3M
Chief Train Controller
Joined: Nov 18, 2005
Last Visited: Sep 15, 2008
Location: Bayswater
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| 197M-1981T-3M |
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Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:50 pm
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The Comeng have a traction power delay (I can't remember how long though...15 secs maybe?) after which power can be gained. The driver should have a flashing blue light in the cab unless the PLC has been bypassed/isolated. If the PLC is isolated in the leading car I believe it is also possible to gain traction regardless of the status of the doors, although I also believe that in that situation the train is not to take passengers.
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skidsteer
Chief Train Controller
Joined: Feb 13, 2006
Last Visited: Jul 30, 2010
Location: In the country
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| skidsteer |
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Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:51 pm
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This is correct for both Siemens and Xtrap, though the Siemens door system can be bypassed also. But the Comengs and Hitatchis also have a 15 second Traction Power Delay if all the doors are not proved closed when they were supposed to be. But, again, there are ways around this (involving serious penalties if caught)
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joffie
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Feb 03, 2003
Last Visited: Jul 21, 2010
Location: Melbourne
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| joffie |
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Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 8:51 pm
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hmm
I remember one time I was on an Xtrap at Richmond heading into town, and the train was rolling with the doors still open. The driver finally came to another stop to close them.
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skidsteer
Chief Train Controller
Joined: Feb 13, 2006
Last Visited: Jul 30, 2010
Location: In the country
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| skidsteer |
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Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 9:41 pm
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| joffie wrote: | hmm
I remember one time I was on an Xtrap at Richmond heading into town, and the train was rolling with the doors still open. The driver finally came to another stop to close them. |
The afformentioned phenomenon can be explained thus:
The xtrap controller works by having a central 'coast' position and pushing forward to brake and pulling towards self to power.
Whilst train is stationary and controller is in 'coast' position, the holding brake is applied to prevent rolling. By moving the controller into the power zone while the doors are not proved closed results in no traction power being available, however the holding brake is relased after about 1 second therefore allowing the train to roll with open doors if so inclined (get it, inclined)
hope this explains it for you
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Camster
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Nov 25, 2004
Last Visited: Jul 7, 2010
Location: Collins Street
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| Camster |
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Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 1:52 pm
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One Hitachi and Comeng trains, their should be a warning lights. I don't think their are major problems on Hitachi's and Comengs and the driver quite often asks people to let go of the doors.
I do think if the driver does not close the doors, the train will still proceed.
"Election in November"
"What? Again? This stupid country!"
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jessemallory
Station Master
Joined: May 04, 2005
Last Visited: Jun 30, 2010
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Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 5:05 pm
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I remember one time, on the Broadmeadows line the doors stayed open from one station to another, I think it was Essendon to Glenbervie, but cant be sure.
Forget the one that I was on, but do remember the doors been open on one side the whole way, but they closed next station.
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John of Melbourne
The Ghost of George Stephenson
Joined: Jan 30, 2003
Last Visited: Jun 10, 2009
Location: Melbourne suburbs
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Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 11:46 pm
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| Camster wrote: | | One Hitachi and Comeng trains, their should be a warning lights. |
Or perhaps a warning tone.
Oh wait...
| jessemallory wrote: | | I remember one time, ... |
I remember many times, on Harris and Tait trains...
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Via City Loop
Chief Commissioner
Joined: May 12, 2005
Last Visited: Jul 30, 2010
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Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2006 1:39 am
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| John of Melbourne wrote: | | Camster wrote: | | One Hitachi and Comeng trains, their should be a warning lights. |
Or perhaps a warning tone.
Oh wait...
| jessemallory wrote: | | I remember one time, ... |
I remember many times, on Harris and Tait trains...
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Ok now were the Taits and Harrisises and I suppose HIOtachits completle ymanual or did the guard have some way of closing the doors.
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John of Melbourne
The Ghost of George Stephenson
Joined: Jan 30, 2003
Last Visited: Jun 10, 2009
Location: Melbourne suburbs
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Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2006 2:35 am
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| Via City Loop wrote: | | Ok now were the Taits and Harrisises and I suppose HIOtachits completle ymanual or did the guard have some way of closing the doors. |
The Silvers (Hitachis) have always been power doors (closed originally by the guard, and now by the driver).
The Harris trains were manual, with no way of the guard doing it (except for walking along the platform and manually closing the doors), except that the last few cars built were built with power doors (as prototypes for the Silvers) and some were retro-fitted to match.
The Taits were always manual. On a warm summer day, it was a lovely breeze sitting right by an open door. (The seats ran perpendicular to the sides, and were right next to the doors. Stretching your legs out meant that you had them across the doorway.)
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2025
Station Master
Joined: May 04, 2006
Last Visited: Jul 29, 2010
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Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2006 9:53 am
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The Harris and Taits were good for the vandals throwing seats out of a moving train.
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501M
Junior Train Controller
Joined: Dec 11, 2005
Last Visited: Jun 20, 2010
Location: The Borough
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| 501M |
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Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2006 11:20 am
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Hi All,
About three years ago when going to Uni (those where the days) on an off-peak Hitachi at Essendon Station the following occurred.
- Driver attempted to close the doors. Door in the carriage I was in stayed open
- Driver attempted to close the doors again. Door in the carriage I was in stayed open
-Driver attempted to close the doors again. Door in the carriage I was in stayed open
- Driver attempted to close the doors. Door in the carriage I was in stayed open, train left the station with the door still open and the warning tone beeping.
I rode in the open doorway for a couple of stations before closing the door as the warning tone was giving me the smeg. If it wasn't for the warning tone I would have ridden all the way to Flinders in that doorway.
Rgs,
501M
1&1/2 years without using public transport and counting......
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Camster
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Nov 25, 2004
Last Visited: Jul 7, 2010
Location: Collins Street
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| Camster |
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Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 2:30 pm
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I have actually been on a Comeng where the driver forgot to close the doors and we went from Cranbourne to Merinda Park with the doors open.
"Election in November"
"What? Again? This stupid country!"
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Siemens725M
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Sep 13, 2005
Last Visited: May 23, 2010
Location: Frankston
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| Siemens725M |
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Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:31 am
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| skidsteer wrote: | | This is correct for both Siemens and Xtrap, though the Siemens door system can be bypassed also. But the Comengs and Hitatchis also have a 15 second Traction Power Delay if all the doors are not proved closed when they were supposed to be. But, again, there are ways around this (involving serious penalties if caught) |
The Siemens though will cut the power again and revert to "limp home mode" on door failure. This means the driver has no choice but to manually close to door or to proceed without passengers as who would stay on a train doing 30km/h.
The door system on the Siemens is much more "secure" than the X'Traps where you can manually isolate the entire door relay and still operate the train.
If you isolate the doors on a Siemens by use of the curcuit breaker - it automatically detects a failure and reverts to safe mode. The only true bypass is to lock each door so it "closes" the curcuits off for each of the door sets - and this means the doors are closed anyway.
The next station is Frankston, This train will be terminating at Frankston.
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