Green light for Dandenong Triplication

 
  station street Chief Commissioner

Looks like the Government is now commited!

Appologies of this has already been posted befire: I did look though, so don't shoot me down in flames - Anyways:

From: http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,18745558%255E661,00.html



Green light for $1b rail project
By Liam Houlihan, transport reporter
08apr06

A $1 BILLION project to build a third rail track on the crowded Dandenong line has been given the green light in secret.


The extra track will speed up travel times for tens of thousands of commuters in Melbourne's growing east.
Houses and shops will be demolished, stations widened and roads diverted for the length of the 19km third track from Caulfield to Dandenong.

The extra track will allow express trains to overtake stopping-all-stations trains and free the network for more frequent services.

It is shaping as the Bracks Government's most expensive transport project.

The Government wanted to keep the third track project quiet until a major transport statement next month.

But the Herald Sun discovered the Government has already signed off on more than $6 million worth of contracts for the "Dandenong Rail Corridor Project" in the past three months.

A source close to the project confirmed the third track has been officially approved by the Bracks Government.

It could take a decade to build the extra line.

Transport Minister Peter Batchelor's office said the Dandenong rail contracts were for development of the project, but not the start of works.

Dandenong is the city's second busiest line after Belgrave with 55,000 boardings each week day.

The Government is also looking at building new stations on the Cranbourne and Werribee lines.

It has spent $283,000 on advice for options to build a station between Dandenong and Merinda Park stations at Lynbrook, and another at Point Cook.

The third track project stalled last year when the Government failed to fully commit to it in the 2005 budget.

Instead it funded a $25 million study of options for the Dandenong growth corridor.

That left open the possibility of extra buses as an alternative to a third rail.

The Public Transport Users Association said there were less costly ways to serve more passengers on the busy line.

"The people living on that line will be happy to see the extra trains when they arrive but that will be in a long time," said association president Daniel Bowen.

"Revamping signalling and timetables and introducing passing loops where there's available land, like in Oakleigh, would be much cheaper."

One of the Dandenong contracts, for survey services, has gone to Connell Wagner, which designed roads, tunnels and noise walls for EastLink.

Another is to a rail company involved in the Government's Regional Fast Rail project.
 

EDIT: Interesting, how the PTUA shoot down the proposal, annd are suggesting a much worse idea. I wish they could get someone who was grateful for once, and maybe intellegent....

  -   Station   Street

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  Metro Transit Minister for Railways

Location: Error.
Well finnally! it cirtainly has taken them long enough to get their butts into gear! But demolishing homes and business? people wont want to move or have their shops torn down like that, so i guess they're right when they say it could take 10 years to do.

I wonder when the first actual work will comence?
  jarf Chief Commissioner

Location: Bunzelling!
The people don't really get a choice... "compulsory acquisition" springs to mind. Wink
  The Met Chief Commissioner

Location: 37.55-S /145.01-E
Hmm...

All, i can say, is it seems good now. but when it's done, ill say it's done.

But can we expect over-budget and delayed results..

At leasts it better than nothing.


---
Rant,
Chris
  MelbourneCity Chief Commissioner

Another re-announcement.
This project was promised when they won in 1999 - anyone remember "flyer trains"???
I'm sick of all the talk about this - bloody hell, build it already!
  standard_gauge Dr Beeching

Location: Outside the toilet, waiting for Della Bosca to come out !!
Another re-announcement.
This project was promised when they won in 1999 - anyone remember "flyer trains"???
I'm sick of all the talk about this - bloody hell, build it already!
"MelbourneCity"


I think Connex does not want to run flyer trains until extra capacity sort.

On the other hand, I think PTUA doesn't know(not surprisingly) the number of empty transfer trains running from Westall depot to city. One of the reason made this stretch so crowded.
  EvanC Chief Plonker

Location: Bayswater, Victoria
EDIT: Interesting, how the PTUA shoot down the proposal, annd are suggesting a much worse idea. I wish they could get someone who was grateful for once, and maybe intellegent....
"station street"
That's exactly what someone here was saying - the gov't can't win with the PTUA either way - whatever they do, it gets bagged!
  MelbourneCity Chief Commissioner

Flyer Trains was a Bracks' promise, nothing to do with Connex.
The third track should of been built starting 2000.
I actually think it should be four tracks, but hey, that aint going to happen in this country!
  Metro Transit Minister for Railways

Location: Error.
The people don't really get a choice... "compulsory acquisition" springs to mind. Wink
"jarf"



Hmm i hope the people concerned have watched 'The Castle' a few times, at least this will keep those in the High Court busy, but does that mean the 'hired Goon Sales' will increse as well?
  standard_gauge Dr Beeching

Location: Outside the toilet, waiting for Della Bosca to come out !!
Flyer Trains was a Bracks' promise, nothing to do with Connex.
The third track should of been built starting 2000.
I actually think it should be four tracks, but hey, that aint going to happen in this country!
"MelbourneCity"


Yeah..but without extra capcity, you can't run the train regardles of who is the operator or which government in charged
  MelbourneCity Chief Commissioner

Yeh I know that, but this project should of been finished 4 years ago, meaning the trains would be running now.
  EvanC Chief Plonker

Location: Bayswater, Victoria
The people don't really get a choice... "compulsory acquisition" springs to mind. Wink
"jarf"



Hmm i hope the people concerned have watched 'The Castle' a few times, at least this will keep those in the High Court busy, but does that mean the 'hired Goon Sales' will increse as well?
"Metro Transit"
Unfortunately that wasn't a real court. Compulsory acquisition happens successfully quite often these days. Just drive along Maroondah Hwy into Ringwood. See the big ditch? There was a servo and a whole heap of houses there. The road you drive on? used to be a timber yard (now next-door, as it happens).
  The Met Chief Commissioner

Location: 37.55-S /145.01-E

Yeh I know that, but this project should of been finished 4 years ago, meaning the trains would be running now

No.. it would of begun 4 years ago.

today trains would run (hopefully)


--
Super happy wishful thinking,
Chris
  standard_gauge Dr Beeching

Location: Outside the toilet, waiting for Della Bosca to come out !!
Yeh I know that, but this project should of been finished 4 years ago, meaning the trains would be running now.
"MelbourneCity"


Flyer trains shouldn't be hard to do once capacity problem solved, during the off peak hour, there are plenty of sets spare not doing anything in the depot. In fct "Hillside Trains" ran Ringwood-Camberwell express trains during off peak in the past.
  standard_gauge Dr Beeching

Location: Outside the toilet, waiting for Della Bosca to come out !!
EDIT: Interesting, how the PTUA shoot down the proposal, annd are suggesting a much worse idea. I wish they could get someone who was grateful for once, and maybe intellegent....
"station street"
That's exactly what someone here was saying - the gov't can't win with the PTUA either way - whatever they do, it gets bagged!
"EvanC"


Makes you wonder if they have any crediility at all, or do we actually nee PTUA? I meant we got ARA and RTSA, who actively lobby and plan for railway, tramway and public transport with real profesional railway/tramway people and academics. PTUA on the other hand...mostly just whingling bastard
  unique Chief Commissioner

Thats great news now how about adding another line from gowrie to upfield ay?
  dbowen Assistant Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
On the other hand, I think PTUA doesn't know(not surprisingly) the number of empty transfer trains running from Westall depot to city. One of the reason made this stretch so crowded.
"james_c"


If that were the big problem, you could move that depot. Upgrade the signalling to allow trains every 90 seconds; put in a passing loop at Oakleigh; get world's best practice on the timetabling -- it's not "full" until there's a train every two minutes.

Then go and duplicate all the remaining sections of single track elsewhere on the network, build lines to South Morang and Doncaster, and having done all that you'd still have change from the estimated ~$1b Dandenong triplification may cost.

Regards,
Daniel
  EvanC Chief Plonker

Location: Bayswater, Victoria
Daniel, do you realise that there is a lot better chance of stuff getting done if you just support improvements. There're other times for crtiticising proposals, but when the gov't seems to be happy to do something that is good for rail and PT in general, support it!
  psr85 Chief Commissioner

Location: Sandringham Line, Melbourne
On the other hand, I think PTUA doesn't know(not surprisingly) the number of empty transfer trains running from Westall depot to city. One of the reason made this stretch so crowded.
"james_c"


If that were the big problem, you could move that depot. Upgrade the signalling to allow trains every 90 seconds; put in a passing loop at Oakleigh; get world's best practice on the timetabling -- it's not "full" until there's a train every two minutes.

Then go and duplicate all the remaining sections of single track elsewhere on the network, build lines to South Morang and Doncaster, and having done all that you'd still have change from the estimated ~$1b Dandenong triplification may cost.

Regards,
Daniel
"dbowen"
Although most won't agree, I can kind of see where you are coming from. Obviously though we will need triplicaiton(or even quad) eventually on that line, so I guess at least it will be done for 2016!! Assuming there aren't any delays.

Obviously because I don't use this line frequently, this really won't effect me, so I can admit bias on that cause. Because I would like to see better signalling and infrastructure over the ENTIRE network. Rather than $1billion spent on a single corridor I don't use. Yes, I do know that it is a major growth corridor too. And I have a feeling there will be a lot of people who feel that way such as the people of South Morang and Doncaster. Maybe not.

Are there many marginal seats along the line? It might have been the deciding factor, unfortunately.

EDIT: I should also point out, that I do support the decision to triplicate though, it's good for PT overall, and hopefully will be the start of major investments in the network.
  savethehumans Chief Train Controller

Location: Melbourne 3004
3rd track is a very peculiar configuration, something most rail systems don't use for good reason.  It doesn't allow for a great deal more than double track (with passing loops if necessary) does.  

Just look at the contra-peak flow on the single track between Richmond and Camberwell and you'll see what can be done with creating scheduling.  It's a complete mix of expresses, stoppers, PSR and Non-PSR services, some diverging for Alamein, others continuing out towards Ringwood and beyond.  Have they even tried a wholesale change of the timetable?  (Nope, the timetable is much the same as it's been for yonkers).  

If they were smart they'd rewrite it to allow for a window of say 15 minutes perhaps twice during peak hour with four or five DNG-CLA-OAK-CFD  express paths, or 4 of those plus a V/Line service.  Start off the pattern with an all stations from Dandenong and Cranbourne (or vice versa).  Follow those up with one or two services starting at pr beyond Dandenong running express OAK-CFD, closely followed by an empty from WTL or DNG to the back platform at OAK.  Then run the 4-5 expresses/VLPs (as a cluster, to conserve track paths), and behind the last express at DNG, WTL and OAK a train cuts in stopping all stations.  That entire rotation could probabkly be squeezed into a 25 minute window, 30 if the schedulers are lazy.  There may well be better options still but I'm certain that they can do better than they are now and a lot sooner than 10 years for a third track that may or may not involve actually running extra services (a la the Moorabbin 3rd track, which is barely used)

Besides, has anyone stopped to think that there will still be six tracks into four between Caulfield and Richmond, so essentially there will be no capacity benefit whatsoever above and beyond what can be done with creative rescheduling of services on double track.

If there isn't a capacity benefit (since there'll be very few opportunities to use the other line's tracks from CFD-RMD short of conflicting movements, or converting that to U-U-D-D and building a flyover either side of CFD, which isn't in the plans AFAIK, then there's little scope for this to actually result in a material improvement in service levels.
  Jason R Chief Commissioner

Location: Socialist People's Republic of Yarra.
Are there many marginal seats along the line? It might have been the deciding factor, unfortunately.
"psr85"


Perhaps.

If the government was playing that game, they surely would have considered the Doncaster line? Doncaster district is held by the Liberals by only 0.78%, Box Hill by 1.1% and Bulleen by 2.65% (all of which border the proposed path of the line). Unfortunately for South Morang, Yan Yean is a fairly safe Labor district.

Yes, we may argue that the money spent on the Dandenong line triplification could be better used elsewhere, or isn't entirely necessary, but if this is true at least something is being spent on public transport. It's better than nothing at all.
  Riccardo Minister for Railways

Location: Gone. Don't bother PMing here.
I agree with the PTUA. Too many other ways of spending $1b, including spending part of it just on a third track to Oakleigh or Clayton. That could deliver all stations services on that section, with all other trains running express. That alone, in peak hour, would make a sizeable difference.

On the other hand...How is it they manage in Perth with express runs on double track, which is the norm, not the exception. There are no stretches of triple track in Perth.
  standard_gauge Dr Beeching

Location: Outside the toilet, waiting for Della Bosca to come out !!
I agree with the PTUA. Too many other ways of spending $1b, including spending part of it just on a third track to Oakleigh or Clayton. That could deliver all stations services on that section, with all other trains running express. That alone, in peak hour, would make a sizeable difference.

On the other hand...How is it they manage in Perth with express runs on double track, which is the norm, not the exception. There are no stretches of triple track in Perth.
"Riccardo"


Because their Prospector do not run hourly and do not reach fast speed within the subbie, and their freight trains segregate from passenger trains by using a cross city line.

They might run more trains during the OFF PEAK hours, but at peak, Melbourne beats it. On top of that, their lines are relatively short, and do not share lines for a long distance. Frankston line shares all the way to Caulfield, pakenham /Cranbourne do not seperate till Dandenong,

Perth's main EMU depot is also not far away from CBD at Clarisbrook(2km?). Easy to run empty train to perth, take peak traffic passengers, whereas Melbourne empty train run from Westall(18-20km), stuck behind whatever is on line at that time.
  Brassy Chief Commissioner

Location: Gippsland
BTW, it's triplication, not triplification.
  standard_gauge Dr Beeching

Location: Outside the toilet, waiting for Della Bosca to come out !!
Question,

If so many empty train transfer plus present services, fast train or subbie or freight causing congestion, would it be better if they expand North Melbourne depot to store and maintain subbie EMUs between peak? or even build it on Upfield line towards the end of Upfield, and(or) extend to EDI workshop?

Perhaps Jolimont yard in the past actually helped congestion?

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