The Large Erecting Shop - It's future Part 1

dthead · Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 5:04 pm

The Large Erecting Shop - It's future

This thread is solely for the preservation of the large Erecting Shed. It is NOT for RTM/3801 Ltd bashing (or any other operator). The politics of the Government can come into it, but I'll expect to see discussion as to what can be done, and how to go about it.
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The Rules:

Site management has been more than tolerant of all the discussion about various NSW based organisations, a historic loco and a historic shed. And no one has paid any attention to these rules given in a major thread for discussion of the above. Making contributions seen by many people as very negative.

Rather than keep this one thread, It has been decided to split up the topics. Initially we have these topics:

* The Large Erecting Shop - It's future
* 3801 sightings
* Rail Transport Museum
* 3801 Ltd.

Other topics may be introduced -by moderators or by request via the ticket system.

NO other thread will be allowed, and will be locked/removed.

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Barred from this thread: Breaking Point

Regards,
David Head
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c3526blue · Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:04 am

David, thanks for establishing this thread.

Unfortunately I live some distance from Sydney and cannot be actively involved in any rail heritage organisations located at or near Eveleigh.

Well, now is the time to promote the active use of the LES as a rail heritage base. Don't let the settling dust of the 3801 issue divert the passionate supporters of this cause from their path.

We must continue to pursue all avenues available to ensure this remnant of the steam age in NSW is maintained as an active base for future steam operations, restoration, maintenance, storage and display.

There are some concerns on it's future that I see are important in the short term.

1. The retention of the LES as an active rail heritage base is not supported by RailCorp, the Powerhouse Museum, ORH(StateRail), ARHS(NSW) and the NSWRTM. Only 3801 Ltd are actively pursuing it's future use. In fact many of them have thrown in the towel on this issue and see it as a dead duck.

We need to persuade these groups/organisations that they are wrong, and obtain their support.

2. RailCorp appear to be decommissioning some important infrastructure associated with access to the LES. (Maybe I am wrong, please correct me if I am.) The main areas of concern as I see it are maintaining access/storage tracks, pointwork and signalling, retention of the turntable (and anything else steam related that I have not mentioned), and provision of reasonable public access.

These matters are vital to the future ACTIVE use of the LES. We need assurances that these aspects will be maintained/provided in the short term and until the LES's future is determined.

3. The RWA has future plans for the LES and these are not rail heritage related. We need to protest long and hard that these future plans are not acceptable. Now is the time to do this whilst there is an election looming. If we make enough noise (figuratively) then we may be able to get assurances from both major political parties. If we get these then, irrespective of the election outcome, we can make sure they are enforced.

4. There are many independent supporters of the LES as an active rail heritage centre. These need to be coordinated and controlled to ensure that a united front with an active groundswell of support is presented. Many individuals can be subverted by our politicians and bureaucrats. A large, focussed and dedicated organisation can get much done.

Finally, my question is 'How do we go about doing this?' I am open to suggestions.

Happy steaming,

John

fernhill · Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:52 am

Of course I agree and I would say that 3801 ltd has not actively supported the LES either,
There are many problems with this situation that can't be swept under the carpet, as it will if not already eroding their memberships or at least the enthusiasm to be active.

1. What is the role of all these organisations if their basic tenet is not saving rail heritage especially when it’s obviously of great importance?
2. Can issues be bought off for short-term gains?
3. Is the planning for rail heritage in this state being managed at all?
4. Is there a business plan for long term running in NSW without the LES?
5. Are all government protocols being followed and if so why wont the Government and in particular the Minister for Transport answer specific questions?
6. Why are changes to the LES being made prior to an assessment by the Commonwealth Dept Environment & Heritage?
7. Is corruption involved when big bickies are being flashed around as NSW does have a reputation for this since the Rum Rebellion?
8. Why wont these organisations present to their membership the whole package including dumping the LES and why?

I can add another dozen questions, but lets answer these first. Before the whole lot implodes.
Of course it is leaking out slowly but then the whole Government is.

I do plea with all the heritage organisation is get back to first principals , check your charters and get together and this can only be done with honesty and frankness particularly with their own membership.
Save the LES!!!!

mjja · Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 7:39 pm

David, can I add, also as a moderator:

The moderators are currently considering the future of all discussion relating to 3801 and the connected subjects. It may be that the only option is to send it the way of Dorrigo and K183 - a flat blanket ban on any discussion relating to the subject, with immediate deletion for any threads started, and warnings issued to the people responsible.

We are not yet convinced that this is the best way to go - but it is on the cards.

The future is in your hands. Choose well.

Happy Gunzelling and remember, "Go by rail!"

Michael Angelico
President, Smart Passengers Inc
(My opinions are my own unless specifically stated.)

fernhill · Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 7:07 am

That would not add to the debate but gag debate and let the issues fester, up until the next election
The way to move the settlement of these issues in NSW is openness and not more behind closed doors action.
One way to settle these issues is for the boards of all the organisations is to put it on the table and clear the air.
You can not clear the air by closing the door.

Inspector · Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 9:42 pm

I agree. The only way forward in this matter is by means of a full and frank debate. By this I do not mean the accusations, recriminations and name-calling that have thus far marked all threads on this and related subjects. Equally, it should not mean that posters should have to "self-censor" themselves for fear that at any moment the moderators are going to say "Right, that's it - finish - NO MORE!!" The ground rules were clearly spelt out at the beginning of this, and related, threads. I can see no reason why a debate canvassing all of the relevant issues cannot be carried on within these rules. It should be remembered that the original thread ran for some 53 pages, prior to splitting, with somewhat "robust" debate at times.

Why, then, has one of the moderators seen fit to issue a secondary warning? This would appear to be a statement of "no confidence" in posters to have a debate on 3801/3801 Ltd/RTM/the LES without resorting to vilification. This, I believe, reflects poorly upon the majority of those who have participated in this debate, and have done so within the rules. Moreover, such a threat to "play merry hell with the big stick" if anybody steps out of line in any way, shape or form creates an opportunity for those who have a vested interest in having this debate shut down for all time, by deliberately engineering a destructive smegfight.

And if the debate IS shut down, where does that leave 3801, 3801 Ltd, and the Large?

The debate should proceed - but not with such a damoclean sword hanging over both it, and anybody who posts in it.

Special delivery - a berm........a BERM??!!!? Shocked

Lithgovian Plenipotentiary Extraordinaire to the Court of St James.

fernhill · Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:37 pm

The debate is going on and I think more people are watching now then ever before.
Good stuff on Allan Jones last week I am looking for the podcast of it, Clover laid into the Gov as did 3801 Ltd.
The large issue isn't dead!!!!
There is a long way to go specially if they have to fix up the SMR workshop first and who is paying for that. That would come out of the Minister's bottomless cookie jar. They got money to burn I heard as long as its not the LES.
I can feel something rumbling under foot but may be we have to wait for next year

fernhill · Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:19 am

The National trust have a new page on the LES and 3801
the link
http://www.nsw.nationaltrust.org.au/news/eveleigh.asp

fernhill · Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 3:10 pm

Updated story and photos on the National trust web site

http://www.nsw.nationaltrust.org.au/news/bring-back-3801.asp

barnest2010 · Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 7:57 am

At this time it is uncertain what is going to happen.

But I heard that they were going to destroy it and clear the area for apartments.

But the diesels are there and maybe the coaches too as I was told by a 3801LTD member when 3801 was down in Newcastle on the 19th of November.

blastpipe · Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:46 pm

loco44_01 · Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 2:56 pm

Fernhill thanks for the link it makes for a good read and there is some really great pics on the page as well.
loco

Fireman Dave · Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 5:38 pm

MBAX · Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 7:37 pm

Interesting that the Powerhouse Museum have demanded the use of 1, 2 and 3 Roads at the Large and have applied for accrediation as an operator in their own right. The Powerhouse are also after half of the former 3801 Limited carrige fleet.

Very interesting to see how everyone is getting in position to pick over the entrails of 3801 Limited.

Those in line so far include the RTM, Powerhouse, Glenreagh and North Western Carriage Builders. No doubt the others will be circling.

Roy

44's, 47's MZ's and GL's R us

http://roy-marshall.fotopic.net/

blakjak · Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 8:06 pm