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HeraldSun: If you thought it was bad now ...

Post new thread Reply to thread Railpage Australia™ Forum Index -> Melbourne suburban
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Metlink_Melb Junior Train Controller   Joined: Nov 24, 2006
Last Visited: Aug 3, 2008
Location: Melbourne


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Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 2:17 am
If you thought it was bad now ...
Ellen Whinnett and Ashley Gardiner
June 18, 2007 12:00am


RAIL travel is set to get even worse as Melbourne's overcrowded train network is bracing for more than 156,000 extra commuters each day - with just 10 new trains set to ease the load.

The looming crisis comes as State Government funding for new rolling stock fails to keep pace with surging passenger growth.

The number of people using the jammed train network has ballooned by 10 per cent a year for the past two years, and train operator Connex said the growth showed no signs of slowing.

At this rate the number of trips taken on the city train network will surge from 173.8 million this year to 231.3 million by 2009-2010 - an extra 57 million passenger trips a year.

The number of trips taken by commuters will rise from 600,000 a day to 756,000 by the time the Government launches the 10 new trains it has promised by 2010.

The news comes as Connex - which has been fined $62 million for poor performance since it took over the rail network in 2004 - failed to meet its May targets.

The company has failed to meet the benchmarks spelled out in its contract for four of the past five months - a problem blamed partly on the large number of people crowded on trains which delays departures from stations.

Freedom of Information documents show passengers had to wait up to 98 minutes for their trains at the worst of summer's public transport crisis.

Public Transport Users Association spokesman Alex Makin said new trains would be welcome but would not meet the demand.

He said the trains could hold about 900 people per trip but he believed the Government would have to buy more rolling stock just to keep up.

"There has been very little proper planning. The Government has simply been reacting when there is a crisis," he said.

"There is a strong demand for public transport, particularly in light of rising petrol prices."

Bracks government spokesman Cameron Scott said it did not believe passenger levels over the next three years would continue at the current "abnormal levels".

He said extra trains were just part of the response to public transport demand and $1 billion more was available for new rolling stock and trams after 2010.

"The Government is also improving maintenance scheduling and investing in rail infrastructure, which allows more services to be run using the existing train fleet," he said.

Connex spokesman Andrew Cassidy said no meaningful analysis could be done of how many journeys the 10 new trains could undertake each day.

He said timetables and other operational areas, such as maintenance, all affected how many people the trains could take.

He described the surge in passenger numbers as "absolutely unprecedented and unexpected", and said Connex was working on ways to provide new services.

"The highest growth in any previous year until two years ago was 3 per cent," Mr Cassidy said.

On its website, Connex says there is "no sign that record patronage growth, which currently exceeds 10 per cent a year, is losing any steam".

"We expect punctuality to remain below 92 per cent until speed restrictions that apply to the Siemens train fleet are lifted," it says. "However, punctuality is unlikely to return to levels we saw 12 months ago - in the short or medium term - due to high (and steadily increasing) customer numbers."

More than 2500 services were delayed last month, Connex figures showed.

Speed restrictions imposed on the troubled Siemens trains delayed more than 3900 services.

Overall, 4961 services were officially late - by six minutes or more - and 382 were cancelled.

Opposition transport spokesman Terry Mulder said the new trains would be "hopelessly inadequate" to meet the soaring demand.

"It is nothing. It won't come anywhere near enough," Mr Mulder said.

He said the lack of planning by the Bracks Government could lead to assaults and abuse on overcrowded platforms as commuters fought for a place on a train.

Seven old Hitachi trains, non-airconditioned and built in 1971, have had their retirement postponed indefinitely and are being used regularly to fill in when other trains are unavailable.

Documents obtained by the Opposition show that angry commuters endured waits of up to 98 minutes for their trains at the height of the crisis caused by the withdrawal of 31 Siemens trains due to braking problems.

During the first three months of this year, 38 services were delayed by 45 minutes or more and 47 were late by at least half an hour.

The documents show that 5039 train services on nine of Melbourne's 16 lines were at least six minutes late.

Mr Mulder said the problem was greater than just the brakes.

"It is not just Connex's operational issues causing late-running trains, but the age of the fleet, driver shortages, and the poor condition of the track and signals," Mr Mulder said.

"Melburnians can look forward to more freezing winter days standing on platforms waiting for trains that run late or which pass them by due to overcrowding," he said.

"Commuters rightly believe they are paying more, getting less and going slower."

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,21922211-661,00.html
 
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bevans Site Admin Site Admin
  Joined: Jan 11, 2003
Last Visited: Nov 21, 2008
Location: Melbourne, Australia


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Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:18 am
Let me get this right, we have the operator Connex stating that they expect growth to continue at the current level, but we have a quote from the government:

Quote:
racks government spokesman Cameron Scott said it did not believe passenger levels over the next three years would continue at the current "abnormal levels"


Did the government not budget for a growth in public transport numbers in its wide ranging plan for Melbourne? I stand by my comment that Kosky and the government are continuing to "stick their collective heads in the sand" and ignore the large investments that are required in the network to ensure comfortable passenger growth.

Kosky, this problem is not going to "go away"! Your own operator is tell you to prepare for growth and you then state in the press you think it is all "abnormal"

What an insult to Melbourne train travellers and Connex.

Regards,
Brian



RP2 - Project Director

"Victoria, the home of world class project blowouts and overruns" Mr. Bachelor, hang your head in Shame!
 
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Knowitall Banned   Joined: Mar 25, 2007
Last Visited: Nov 14, 2008
Location: Banned


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Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:28 am
What I find really interesting is that China can expand an order of High Speed trains by 127 trains to about 360 trains aproximatly and still recive all of them by the end of this year.

But we struggle to recive a delivery of 10 (posibbly 24) trains by 2010

I just don't add up



Banned
 
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bevans Site Admin Site Admin
  Joined: Jan 11, 2003
Last Visited: Nov 21, 2008
Location: Melbourne, Australia


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Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:34 am
Kosky needs to be ordering some double deck trains now for delivery in the next 2 years. Why have we moved away from the double deck approach that Sydney has which seems to handle things a lot better than the single deck trains.

Melbourne aspires to be an International city, but we think and act like a backwater. My hat goes off to Queensland and New South Wales.

What disgusts me the most about the Victorian approach to anything but speed cameras is the complete LACK of LEADERSHIP in infrastructure renewal and infrastructure investments.

It does not suprise me that Melbourne is no longer the worlds most livable city. I don;t believe we deserve it.

Regards,
Brian



RP2 - Project Director

"Victoria, the home of world class project blowouts and overruns" Mr. Bachelor, hang your head in Shame!
 
s
Revenue Assistant Commissioner   Joined: Dec 01, 2004
Last Visited: Nov 21, 2008


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Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 11:23 am
Quote:
Why have we moved away from the double deck approach that Sydney has which seems to handle things a lot better than the single deck trains.


Double decker trains don't actually increase capacity, as the increased carrying capacity of the vehicle is balanced by the increased loading/unloading times.

Melbourne has made a deliberate decision to remain with single deck for this reason.

Internationally, you will find that double deck trains are generally used for regional services where longer loading/unloading times aren't as critical (eg. Double Deck TGVs, Double Deck commuter trains in North America, etc...).
 
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tranzitjim Chief Commissioner   Joined: Jun 09, 2006
Last Visited: Nov 20, 2008


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Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 12:13 pm
One can say that Sydney has 100% double decker fleet, and it is said that they are going back to single deck trains for the reason that Revenue has stated.

On the other side, if the line capacity is the same for both types of trains, one may as well go double deck, as you will need fewer trains, and thus fewer drivers, and less blockages along the route with the likes of level crossings etc.

If they where used on Direct to Flinders Street services, where the turnaround is a few minutes anyhow, then they may as well use double deck cars on those runs.

One way around the increased loading/unloading issue is, to have a line split into two tracks with two platforms and back to one track at the other end of the platforms (within the safe distance). This could be some benefit to single deck trains as they would also hold up some line capacity while at railway stations.
 
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Gwiwer Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid   Joined: Nov 22, 2003
Last Visited: Nov 22, 2008
Location: Far away yet close at hand in images of elsewhere


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Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 12:37 pm
The double-deck RATP services through central Paris don't seem to suffer overlong station dwell times but are also not (apart from perhaps at a few peak times) that heavily used, unlike the Metro.

Melbourne's infrastructure means that double deckers are uinlikely to become a viable option with the possible exception of a couple of lines and if those services were removed (for reasons of station dwell time rather than loading gauge) fmo the City Loop.

10 new trains are better than nothing but we need to look at the big picture.

We need an almost total makeover of the signalling system to accommodate many more train services as many critical pinch points now run at capacity for practical purposes during peak hours. Selective additional tracks and platforms are also essential as part of this.

State polictics has seen long-distance suburban and most country fares substantially reduced generating a creditable increase in traffic. But there is nowhere for this additional traffic to be accommodated.

VLP cannot run more trians than they have pathways for, just the same as Connex. So althuogh ten additional six-car suburban trains is a welcome respite, we really need to acknowledge that far more are required but that the inftrastructure needs to exist to accommodate them first.

It makes no sense at all spending millions (billions) on a new train fleet which has no track space to run on, even if there are passengers left behind or carried in crushed conditions.



CEO Penhayle Bay Railway. Ferroequinologist. BA Hons (Honourable Bachelor of Aquatarts )
The wise yet mysterious Sir Gwiwer Greybeard
 
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574M White Guru   Joined: Mar 15, 2006
Last Visited: Nov 13, 2008
Location: Shepparton


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Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 1:02 pm
Hear, Hear!!!

Gwiwer wrote:

It makes no sense at all spending millions (billions) on a new train fleet which has no track space to run on, even if there are passengers left behind or carried in crushed conditions.
 
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MelbourneCity Chief Commissioner   Joined: Jan 22, 2003
Last Visited: Nov 21, 2008
Location: Melbourne


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Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 1:52 pm
Knowitall wrote:
What I find really interesting is that China can expand an order of High Speed trains by 127 trains to about 360 trains aproximatly and still recive all of them by the end of this year.

But we struggle to recive a delivery of 10 (posibbly 24) trains by 2010

I just don't add up


Different economic systems, different economic scale.
China has billions of dollars to spend, and everyone wants a piece of the action. Manufacturers are going to take a larger order than a minor order anyday.

Chinese railways could also have a lower safety standard.

What gets my goat is other states (Qld and WA) can expand their railways faster than Victoria - look at Gold Coast duplication vs Dandenong.  
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bevans Site Admin Site Admin
  Joined: Jan 11, 2003
Last Visited: Nov 21, 2008
Location: Melbourne, Australia


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Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 2:14 pm
MelbourneCity wrote:
What gets my goat is other states (Qld and WA) can expand their railways faster than Victoria - look at Gold Coast duplication vs Dandenong.


Yep, the Vic. DOI is becoming a joke. The costs of doing rail business in Vic is almost double that of QLD.

'What did Buck Rogers say when he woke up in the 22nd century?"

"Has the craigieburn electrifrication been completed yet?"

Regards,
Brian



RP2 - Project Director

"Victoria, the home of world class project blowouts and overruns" Mr. Bachelor, hang your head in Shame!
 


Last edited by bevans on Mon Jun 18, 2007 2:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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SPSD40T2 Chief Commissioner   Joined: Oct 01, 2006
Last Visited: Nov 9, 2008
Location: Platform 9-3/4 and still waiting !!


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Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 2:56 pm
almost an argument for keeping a viable Railway Building Industry ??
The short sighted just didnt get it.
 
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drwaddles In need of a breath mint   Joined: Aug 16, 2006
Last Visited: Nov 21, 2008
Location: Lifting the A-League trophy!


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Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:07 pm
bevans wrote:
MelbourneCity wrote:
What gets my goat is other states (Qld and WA) can expand their railways faster than Victoria - look at Gold Coast duplication vs Dandenong.

Yep, the Vic. DOI is becoming a joke. The costs of doing rail business in Vic is almost double that of QLD.


Careful where you lay the blame.

Have a bit of faith that those working for the DOI are doing the best they can within the resources and funding that they have.

Remember - the DOI is told by Parliament what money they have for what project. The DOI cannot just allocate hours to a project willy nilly - they are constrained by the funding allocated to that project.

The blame rests squarely with Treasury - and thus politicians.

Planners from the DOI can scream railways until they are blue in the face but unless Treasury gives them the funds they can't do anything about it.

What may need to be addressed is if the DOI is prioritising roads over public transport on its submissions to Treasury - then that is a problem with the DOI. But remember, it ultimately comes down to the politicians. If a certain road project isn't there then the pollies will scream blue murder and order the DOI to shift its priority up a few places.

PT always loses.... Sad
 
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bevans Site Admin Site Admin
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Last Visited: Nov 21, 2008
Location: Melbourne, Australia


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Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:16 pm
If this is infact the case, then how is it that consecutive governments have taken a roads to recovery policy? Surely PT would get a say at some point across 3 consecutive governments. DOI are either totally lame when it comes to putting projects to government, or vicroads are exceptionally good at it.

Further, how do you explain the massive loss of freight to road during the late 80's and early 90's when a lot of this was clearly better on rail?

I have dealt with the DOI on numerous occasions and I have to say they do not fill me with confidence in the dealings I have experienced.

Feedback for what it is worth.

Regards,
Brian



RP2 - Project Director

"Victoria, the home of world class project blowouts and overruns" Mr. Bachelor, hang your head in Shame!
 
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drwaddles In need of a breath mint   Joined: Aug 16, 2006
Last Visited: Nov 21, 2008
Location: Lifting the A-League trophy!


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Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:44 pm
I am not saying the DOI is perfect, far from it. I am just saying that ultimately their actions are constrained by those who allocate them money - the politicians.

Whilst I haven't dealt with the DOI myself I can relay an experience I had with one of the planners working for the Ministry of Transport (formerly in the Dept. of Planning) in NSW. She was a guest lecturer and after the lecturer I grilled her about why the Epping-Parramatta rail line wasn't constructed. I could see from the way she reacted my questions that she wanted it to have been built, she knew it should have been built, but it was ultimately out of her hands.
 
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DalyWaters Deputy Commissioner   Joined: Oct 31, 2006
Last Visited: Nov 20, 2008


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Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:53 pm
What has happened to the 2020 plan.

It looks like it was meant to be an aim but not to be acheived. The system can't actually cope with the stated aim of the Government.

A wild aim like this will come back and bite the Government on the bum one day soon.
 
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