A lot of us here use Whirlpool. Whirlpool Broadband, that is. It is an excellent reference site and has these humunguous threads.

You may wish to consider changing to focus from washing machines to Internet discussion forums...

I think when people see your thread heading they will think of washing machines. This is not what you are about. Why don't you go back and edit that first post, and change the Subject heading line to Australian Internet Forum Moderator Sued or something relevant like that.

Yes it will likely be a class action with a domino effect, so it is relevant for us here at Railpage Australia™. I wonder what The Register, Slashdot, or Neowin will make of this. It will be interesting to see if it turns up on Daily Rotation.. http://www.dailyrotation.com/

And people wonder why we have rules in place regarding slander...

I recall learning last year in IT that there is a precedent in the US saying that website owners cannot be held responsible for what individuals post, in terms of slander. But that's the US... hopefully our system doesn't prove itself to be worse.

Without reading the posts in question, where does that leave Railpage Australia™ in relation to comments made by users here?

I previously posted about issues relating to Windows Vista and its' compatibility with some simulators and older games and warned against upgrading if you wanted to continue to use those games. Does that mean Micro$oft might have a case against MGH and the mods here for "allowing" my comments to be published, given it might turn user's away from purchasing Windows Vista?

Is it not a persons right to provide their opinion in whatever forum they choose?

Oh, HERE and HERE are the two threads in question...

I doubt it's that extreme. I have a feeling it's more a case of unfounded slander and libel against 2Clix.

I started reading the first of KR's quotes (but found it INCREDIBLY boring - although I'm sure there are many who don't) so scanned to the end. I didn't read anything I would consider slanderous (at least slanderous to any individual), just honest opinions of the software and customer service.

If that thread sees Whirlpool sued, I'd say RP could just as easily be sued at least by Cityrail, Countrylink, Dorrigo, GMR, 3801Ltd and the NSWRTM.

If there is one particular post that was slanderous I'm happy to suggest I didn't read it and if it is pointed out to me I will withdraw all comments made in this thread.

Yes, but what really does constitute slander, ones person's opinion is another man's slander! It's all in how you read the article/post's, some people will only get part of it and some will read between the lines and make a mountain out of a mole hill.

If I were to make a simple statement like MGH is a drunk or something this could be regarded as slanderous, however If I put like MGH likes a tipple now and again it becomes a simple statement of fact. Some one will always say they are either the same or different.

Sorry Michael using you as an example but I'm sure everyone will get the drift!

Well, that's true, but for a company to go after a forum owner over posts by it's user base is a bit extreme?

Obviously 2clix has taken a very serious view of the posts.

Interestingly, I found this on http://www.cbaa.org.au/content.php/12.html?pubid=47

The main thing that is of interest to people (and, indeed, why mainstream media have picked up on our situation) is whether there is going to be a dangerous precedent set by this.

Whilst there is a degree of interest in the fact that Whirlpool is involved from the tech community, it pales in to insignificance when compared to the potential ramifications.

This is going to be interesting irrespective of the outcome, that much I do know.

-- Hendikins, Moderator, Whirlpool Broadband Forums

If this is the case then it would be better to setup the forum and register the domain in a foreign country like Laos or Cambodia to protect the forum and its user from ridiculous law suits and government controls.

so the new domain for Railpage Australia™ would be www.railpage.com.kh and typing the old site would just redirect you to the new place.

this way they would not be able to track the original owners as its just a law firm in Cambodia who holds the domain name.

But lets hope this ridiculous law suit is quashed in the courts and never herd of again.

The statement of claim clearly outlines the posts which 2Clix have taken exception to. I think they (2Clix) might have a point, and Whirlpool might think themselves lucky that 2Clix only wants $150k and some threads removed.

For the record, I have had reasonably extensive use of 2Clix, it did what we needed it to, don't understand the issues Whirlpoolers have had.

If those posters on WP can back up their claims, then I don't think 2Clix has a leg to stand on. Those posts seem to be genuine warnings about a product based on personal experience and if capable of being proven, should be all WP needs to have the case dismissed and costs awarded against 2Clix.

If every company in Aust took someone to court over issues like this they would not have time for criminals. Everyone is entitled to their opinion of something and the quicker some individuals realise this the better, there must be something wrong if there are complaints, the solution is not to take the complainers to court, but to fix the problem, but in this day and age the court is probably seen as the easier option and it will generate some income if they win.

I know it was per month, I was suggesting that would be all that might need to paid. If Whirlpool really thought about it the threads would be down already, this situation could rapidly get out of hand, leaving them up is only going to inflame the issues.

Whilst we are at it, just because something MIGHT be true does not imply that it is not slander. Going to court and suggesting that you (or someone else) were only telling the truth is a really good way of gaining a big bill.

Firstly, I agree that slander is, by definition, slander, even if it is true.

And there is no doubt that 2Clix has been slandered in the threads mentioned. If WP is as big as it seems (I have no techie tendencies so had never heard of it before) then I have no doubt 2Clix has lost money as a result. I suspect $150k a month might be a bit optimistic, but certainly they would have lost a sale or three.

Now I'm no legal eagle but I can't imagine that Today Tonight, ACA, Media Watch and Choice Magazine have managed to stay afloat if providing a true account of something, even if slanderous, leaves you wide open to a lawsuit. Heck, half the cr@p on ACA and TT is both slanderous AND at best misleading, more likely fabricated lies. And God help both the Labor and Liberal parties!

I suspect that 2clix is probably not doing as well as they would like, largely because their product is cr@p (based on the WP threads), and are looking to fill the coffers anyway they can. I also doubt any judge would think twice about throwing this out in a second, because the next step would be suing people for what they say to their mates at the pub, and life CAN'T be good when that happens.

PS mods: consider very carefully whether MGH can afford to keep this post up...I have, after all, also slandered 2clix here

What is right and what is smart to do when it comes to litigation are often two different things. There's no use in being right (even if you were all along), if there isn't anything to gain, or if proving it would cost an inordinate amount of money and thus outweigh any potential gain.

I don't know the specifics of this claim, but I, for one, wouldn't think less of Simon Wright if he took the threads down just to make this go away - after all, he is being sued personally and his own assets may be at stake.

The point here is that I as a third party (unidentified except to the owner of the website), with no verification of my credentials can state my opinion - regardless of the perceived accuracy of the opinion by others.

While most large forum sites have a number of moderators, the mods operate within rules laid down by the site owner - who if they were smart enough to operate a public forum would (I would assume) have received some legal opinion as to what the rules should be.

Usually the rules allow the posting of my opinion on subjects related or unrelated to the forums prime interest. Simon Wright (and potentially Michael Greenhill, Brian Evans and so on) is being sued because someone on his forum gave their opinion of a particular type of financial software and the maker of the software has a different opinion.

If anyone here wants to have the right or ability to express an adverse view of anyone or any thing ever again - defence of this legal action is important. Otherwise, I would be binned for stating my train was late as it could be considered to be slanderous to Queensland Rail - accuracy would not be a defence as the owners of this site would be concerned about the possibility of a lawsuit from QR for my comment/opinion.

Support Whirlpool's defence:

BSB 342080 160682413Bank: HSBC Account: SIMON WRIGHT

Please note that this is a donation only; don't expect anything specific in return (beyond some very positive vibes). The donation will go towards improving Whirlpool and defending the site's legal rights.

That is just the point Wolfpac, the time will come when we will all be stupid idiots to scared to have an opinion of something for fear some smeghead will take us to court over it.

If something is smeg say so, otherwise how is the manufacture/provider supposed to know, they do not put recall notices and apoligies etc in papers because they look good, but because something is wrong and they wan't to fix it.

Too many people today expect us to buy their smeg and shut up if it doe's not work, they all need to get a life. Years back things were done with pride now everything bows to the god almighty dollar even courts!

RP has had potentially damaging statements made on it before, a certain poster decided that the reason a shipment of models was late was due to the manufacturer's inability to pay for their production. Blatantly false (the models had arrived) and the poster was very lucky that the manufacturer forgave them. Similar comments on another forum have left another model manufacturer actively seeking advise from their lawyer, warnings of further comments resulting in action have been given.

Slander/defamation/libel (all differ legally) but none of them rely on the truth as a defense. None of them prevent opinions being expressed.

Statements like *Product A did not achieve what I wanted, so I now use Product B which has the features I want* or similar would be fine. To say things like *Don't buy X product because it's crap* or *Company Z provides smeg service etc* can lighten your wallet. Products, companies, people (and other things) can't just be degraded in public even if the person making the comments thinks that they are right.

Principals are wonderful things to have, but they should be given up before you go to court or it will nearly always cost serious dollars to keep them. It's all about discretion and valour, sometimes it's better to make amends, apologise (only after seeking legal advice) and hope the issues goes away with your house still in your possession.

If you are ever caught up in potential litigation at the very least you would take whatever measures available to you to limit your liability, that would only be sensible, why risk higher penalties?