Sunbury Electrification Project

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Speed Minister for Railways

mX says that the problem is with the trenches laid for cables. It doesn't go into specifics but it would make sense if some of the trenches needed to be redug. It sounds like this will happen at the contractor's expense, even if it slips the schedule.
 
wolfpac Minister for Railways

Location: Over here...
Overhead is still only as as far as the Melbourne side of Gap Rd.
Sunbury yard is getting close to completion with the 3 sidings on the left nearly done.
Building works at Sunbury are almost complete, CCTV cameras etc being installed and it looks like work will start on resorting the garden soon (once the portables are gone) 
- ab123


Looked like there was some preliminary overhead wiring put up on the Down side of Melton Hwy, too, when I last went past in January.

Wolfpac
 
T411 - Moderator Moderator

Location: Somewhere
Latest rumour suggests that the delays to the project are not construction related but more so Metro being concerned they won't have enough drivers to run the service and thus delaying the completion of the project. make what you like of that.
 
tranzitjim Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
Latest rumour suggests that the delays to the project are not construction related but more so Metro being concerned they won't have enough drivers to run the service and thus delaying the completion of the project. make what you like of that.
- T411


As a start, can they not just train some V/Line drivers, the ones currently doing the Sunbury shorts, and just get sparks replacing the existing v/line services on a 1:1 ratio.  Then wait for more later in time?

Do they really need to start with a full and proper 20 minute service from day one?
 
sparkdriver Assistant Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
Latest rumour suggests that the delays to the project are not construction related but more so Metro being concerned they won't have enough drivers to run the service and thus delaying the completion of the project. make what you like of that.
- T411


As a start, can they not just train some V/Line drivers, the ones currently doing the Sunbury shorts, and just get sparks replacing the existing v/line services on a 1:1 ratio.  Then wait for more later in time?

Do they really need to start with a full and proper 20 minute service from day one?
- tranzitjim


You could train some V/Line drivers, but retraining for past drivers coming back to drive suburban trains takes 6 months (safeworking, route knowledge, train preps, fault finding and time driving the different types of trains under supervision etc).
 
simeyau Station Master

Location: Sunbury, Victoria
Latest rumour suggests that the delays to the project are not construction related but more so Metro being concerned they won't have enough drivers to run the service and thus delaying the completion of the project. make what you like of that.
- T411


As a start, can they not just train some V/Line drivers, the ones currently doing the Sunbury shorts, and just get sparks replacing the existing v/line services on a 1:1 ratio.  Then wait for more later in time?

Do they really need to start with a full and proper 20 minute service from day one?
- tranzitjim


You could train some V/Line drivers, but retraining for past drivers coming back to drive suburban trains takes 6 months (safeworking, route knowledge, train preps, fault finding and time driving the different types of trains under supervision etc).
- sparkdriver


You also need to find vline drivers wanting to do this and vline isn;t exactly flush with spare drivers either
 
Flatop Deputy Commissioner

Location: Some where in a Cab
The longer Sunbury is without the sparks the better the place will be.They should have asked the locals if they wanted in the first place and ASSUME it was wanted.Anyway not worried about it as i no longer live there.
 
Flygon Junior Train Controller

Location: Australia
I don't know about you, but I'm a local, and I greatly support the rail electrification project. 8)
 
alstom_888m Chief Commissioner

Location: South Morang Railway Line, VIC
It's not about Sunbury, it's about better service for all. Bendigo passengers will have a better chance of getting seats, and Sydenham line passengers will benefit from better frequencies and opens up the possibility for express Metro services where pathways permit, and in some cases, mandate (which is why there's a few "Broadmeadows express" trains on the Craigieburn line due to Seymour V/Lines).
 
ab123 Train Controller

The vocal minority in Sunbury don't want it, most people do want it or could care less.
 
 
simeyau Station Master

Location: Sunbury, Victoria
The people in Sunbury who do not want it are a) elderly and b) people who just travel in peak when they havea choice of train. The rest of us, who travel outside these times and would like to have an early and also late service do want it. This also includes the kids who want to get to the city etc

I just laugh at the people who are always bagging vline but then when you say soon there will be electric trains and you do not have to worry, they complain that they prefer vline.


 
tranzitjim Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
VLine = Trains are what people like
Metro = They have the Frequency and hours of operation

If only we could have V/line type of seats but Metro Frequency and hours, then no one would complain at all.
 
Taitset Chief Commissioner

Location: Eltham, (former) vintage safeworking capital of Melbourne
If only we could have V/line type of seats but Metro Frequency and hours, then no one would complain at all.
- tranzitjim

There is no reason why seats in suburban trains can't be comfortable and still compact, I've seen many examples of this outside Victoria. The given reason however is that Melbourne sparks require vandal-proof seats, which are unfortunatly also comfort-proof.
 
Victoria-Bitter Junior Train Controller

Location: Banned
The given reason however is that Melbourne sparks require vandal-proof seats
- Taitset

They still have nice seats on the V set units in NSW, despite the large amount of vandalism they cop in the interurban areas, made even worse by not having onboard CCTV.

I do beleive that RailCorp has a large bill for green vinyl seats every year though..
 
ath Junior Train Controller

Heading home tonight I spotted a pile of ripped up conduit in a paddock just south of the Diggers Rest exit on the freeway. I assume this to be the old conduit that needed to be replaced. It was not stacked, but piled up like pickup sticks. Not sure how long it has been there, but I didn't noticve it last week, but then again the last 4-5 days have been busy enough that I might just not of seen it before today.
 
rascalxena Locomotive Fireman

Heading home tonight I spotted a pile of ripped up conduit in a paddock just south of the Diggers Rest exit on the freeway. I assume this to be the old conduit that needed to be replaced. It was not stacked, but piled up like pickup sticks. Not sure how long it has been there, but I didn't noticve it last week, but then again the last 4-5 days have been busy enough that I might just not of seen it before today.
- ath

been there a few weeks now i have noticed the overhead wires getting closer to sunbury  station
 
 
wolfpac Minister for Railways

Location: Over here...
been there a few weeks now i have noticed the overhead wires getting closer to sunbury  station
- rascalxena


Ditto for the overhead at the Sydenham end, the eastern track is connected across Melton Hwy and the western track isn't too far away from being hooked up also.

Wolfpac
 
Midnight_Poet Station Staff

Can any electrical engineers tell me: 1) How far apart the substations have to be on electrified lines? 2) What is the variation in metres for the positioning of one to the next +/_ ? Thanks
- 553fromsunbury


I was pondering this during my trip yesterday. I counted five (six?) new traction substations between Sunbury and Watergardens. I was especially surprised at the short distance between the substation near the Jackson's Creek bridge, and the substation just up of the level crossing at Sunbury.

Is this normal? I don't recall seeing so many on other lines, but they may be less obvious (or further away from the track) in more urban areas...
 
msilsby Assistant Commissioner

Location: Melbourne, Victoria
Probably on account of the trains hoofing along in the section to Sunbury at 115km/hr. The faster you go, the more power you need.....


And sunburn is being talked as a 'mid 2013 project' ........ 
 
Flygon Junior Train Controller

Location: Australia
To be quite honest, I'm curious as to if any of the trains (I'm naming X'traps and Siemens here, specifically) could actually break that 115km/hr barrier, though, I would imagine the low voltage of the lines wouldn't do the trains any justice. Wikipedia gives figures of 130km/hr, but I'm skeptical of that as a source for these figures.

Edit: Well, some Googling suggests 'No', what joy.  Razz
 
msilsby Assistant Commissioner

Location: Melbourne, Victoria
All will exceed 115, it whether there is the track to get to that speed. I have even had a Hitachi barrelling along at 115km/hr, and had to go back to 'coast' to stop it going any faster. 


The problem is that we don't have the track geometry nor the space between stations to justify it.





... Funnily enough, the RRL would be perfect for the siemens.... 
 
Flygon Junior Train Controller

Location: Australia
I was assuming the distance between stations from Watergardens-on would have given enough distance to allow post-115km/hr operation. Though, I'm no genius. Thanks, anyway!
 
alstom_888m Chief Commissioner

Location: South Morang Railway Line, VIC
I've taken my GPS aboard trains at various points. Laverton - Newport on the straight can see a Comeng hit 115. Werribee - Hoppers and Coolaroo - Roxburgh Park - Craigieburn can see it in a Siemens.
 
bevans - Administrator Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
All will exceed 115, it whether there is the track to get to that speed. I have even had a Hitachi barrelling along at 115km/hr, and had to go back to 'coast' to stop it going any faster. 


The problem is that we don't have the track geometry nor the space between stations to justify it.





... Funnily enough, the RRL would be perfect for the siemens.... 
- msilsby


Yep. Electrification should have been part of the project.  Given the price it could have been.  

I wonder what percentage of the RRL price is for Project Management for DOT and Metro/Vline? On the South Morang Extension I was told DOT placed a 30% project cost on Project Management.  All funny money!

The real cost of South Morang was about $310m

Regards
Brian 
 
bramt Deputy Commissioner

What do you mean, you want wires following RRL all the way to Ballarat and Bendigo? With substations every 4km?

I'm fairly sure V/Locities get to 160 between Sunbury and Watergardens. Electric trains have better acceleration, how could they not reach their top speed between stations? 
 

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