North East Line to Standard Gauge

 
  Rossco T Train Controller

Location: Camberwell, Victoria
I was recently trawling through transport policies for the upcoming Federal Election and I came across this from the Liberal Party. (see http://www.liberal.org.au/about/documents/VictoriaTransport.pdf.)

We have recently completed, or are completing, projects that include:
• The Deer Park Bypass and Leakes Rd Interchange on the Western Highway;
• The Craigieburn Bypass on the Hume Highway;
• Western Ring Road upgrades;
• Duplication of the Hume Highway, including a world class freeway through Wodonga;
• Construction of the new Geelong Road;
• Construction of the Geelong Ring Road;
• Major duplication and upgrade works on the Goulburn Valley Highway;
• The extension of the Calder Highway duplication to Ravenswood near Bendigo;
• Donnybrook grade separation;
• The Pakenham Bypass;
• Upgrades and duplication on the Western Highway;
• Sturt Highway upgrades west of and through Mildura;
• The Dynon Port Rail Link;
• Bi-directional rail line between Tottenham Junction and West Footscray;
• The Wodonga Rail Bypass;
• Standardisation of the second railway track between Melbourne and Albury-Wodonga; and
• Upgrading the rail track between Geelong and Mildura.


What interested me was the second last dot point as I hadn't realised that this had even been formally announced.

Ross

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  KngtRider Chief Commissioner

Location: http://www.nitroware.net
The Wodonga Rail Bypass;


I thought it was announced that this was abanonded ? (for the time being)

• Standardisation of the second railway track between Melbourne and Albury-Wodonga; and


Interesting that it says Melbourne not Seymour, yet other points are specific.

An oversight/simplifcation?
  Nexas The Ghost of George Stephenson



• Standardisation of the second railway track between Melbourne and Albury-Wodonga; and


Interesting that it says Melbourne not Seymour, yet other points are specific.

An oversight/simplifcation?
"KngtRider"


I believe part of the plan is to gauge convert the up line between Seymour and Melbourne (Craigieburn?) as well?
  574M White Guru

Location: Shepparton
• Standardisation of the second railway track between Melbourne and Albury-Wodonga; and
"Roscoe T"



Interesting that it says Melbourne not Seymour, yet other points are specific.
An oversight/simplification?
"KngtRider"



I believe part of the plan is to gauge convert the up line between Seymour and Melbourne (Craigieburn?) as well?
"Nexas"


Yes, that rumour hit the streets yesterday. Gauge conversion of the Up line between SEY and CGB

Another option being touted is double track dual gauge of the Albion-Jacana line. If this happens, that may well open the doors for an airport connection.
  Nexas The Ghost of George Stephenson




I believe part of the plan is to gauge convert the up line between Seymour and Melbourne (Craigieburn?) as well?
"Nexas"


Yes, that rumour hit the streets yesterday.
"574M"


Oh really? In that case, I wonder why I heard it at least six months ago. Rolling Eyes

I'm pretty sure it has been posted here previously also.
  r707 Chief Commissioner

Location: Here
Having only one BG line to Seymour would make it impossible to run the Seymour locals as they couldn't cross. A possible solution is to chuck a couple of Sprinters and a H set on SG, but then working out services with one each of BG and SG lines is illogical and stupid. A better idea would be to make both lines DG, meaning gauge is irrelevant between Broady and Seymour.
  Nexas The Ghost of George Stephenson

Having only one BG line to Seymour would make it impossible to run the Seymour locals as they couldn't cross. A possible solution is to chuck a couple of Sprinters and a H set on SG, but then working out services with one each of BG and SG lines is illogical and stupid. A better idea would be to make both lines DG, meaning gauge is irrelevant between Broady and Seymour.
"r707"


Crossing loops are to be installed at a few key locations.

Also, dual gauge would prevent the current 115km/h running of sparks between Broadmeadows and Craigieburn, and 130k/h running of vline services between Broadmeadows and Seymour.
  DalyWaters Chief Commissioner

Having only one BG line to Seymour would make it impossible to run the Seymour locals as they couldn't cross.


The Ballarat line runs more services than Seymour on single track.
  NR77 Chief Commissioner

So for those of us that are stupid or drunk (Drunk) or something, the NE line is getting converted from Melbourne to Albury and work is starting from April next year?
  574M White Guru

Location: Shepparton
So for those of us that are stupid or drunk (Drunk) or something, the NE line is getting converted from Melbourne to Albury and work is starting from April next year?
"NR77"


Something like that.

It's a solution to get the Feds to maintain the track and gives everyone access, paths, additional capacity to provide higher frequency of service (for pass and freight) and to unload a significant cost from the Victorian transport budget. (So I reckon, however, I am humble enough to say that I could be corrected on the last point.)

Factor in the Inland Transport Corridor and you have an instant solution for the Southern-most part of that proposed project.  Everyone wins, so its virtually a no-brainer.

It is said (rumoured, discussed, spoken about) that VLine Pass are considering operating services to Wagga, NSW. If so, then they would of course be handed very nice capacity to do so should this go ahead.

South of Seymour presents some issues, so the consideration of either dual gauge passing loops or the Up track becoming DG or SG provide some possible options.

It's going to happen, everyone will win, and its just a matter of time before we find out exactly what the final mix will be.  

Think of it as an idea whose time has come.
  SteamtoStay Chief Commissioner

Location: Building floorplates
Does V/Line have any stock at all that can't be converted to SG? Or any that won't fit in the NSW loading gauge?
  callufrax Train Controller

Location: Nth. Strathfield, Main Northern, CityRail - Sydney, NSW, Australia
Does V/Line have any stock at all that can't be converted to SG? Or any that won't fit in the NSW loading gauge?
"SteamtoStay"

Aren't NSW loading gauges generally larger than Victorian ones? Or is that generally just the Melbourne metro area that's smaller?
  SteamtoStay Chief Commissioner

Location: Building floorplates
Also, dual gauge would prevent the current 115km/h running of sparks between Broadmeadows and Craigieburn, and 130k/h running of vline services between Broadmeadows and Seymour.
"Nexas"


Would the speed restrictions be on the BG and the SG in a dual gauge track, or only the BG?

If so, then maybe leave the BG track there, and get 'all those who want to use it' to pay for it?

Does V/Line have any stock at all that can't be converted to SG? Or any that won't fit in the NSW loading gauge?
"SteamtoStay"

Aren't NSW loading gauges generally larger than Victorian ones? Or is that generally just the Melbourne metro area that's smaller?
"callufrax"

To be honest, I've got no idea at all. I just assumed that they were smaller, given our wider gauge, which would mean wider stock?
  jjd76au Train Controller

Location: Kilmore East
Not sure if this concerns the main topic here but a couple of months ago I saw some blokes tinkering around the bridge that crosses the Kilmore East - Sunday Creek Road (NOT the Dry Creek Bridge that was just upgraded recently) just north of the Kilmore East station.  

The bloke I spoke to said they were all geologist.  Stakes with PINK ribbons appeared over the next few days.  I asked at the station and was told "they'll be duplicating the Sydney line in the next few months including the bridge" - Actual words.

Well TODAY, at six in the F#$%^ing morning it all began.  Truck after truck dumping gravel and a digger spreading it across the creek to build up the other side.

In detail - the bridge over the road about 3/4km north of Kilmore East Station, on the eastern side - eg outside of the three tracks.  I don't know if this is the Broad Guage mentioned from Melbourne to Albury or if it is just a new passing loop - which means I'll anticipate MORE trains stopping and clanking near us in the middle of the night.

Knowing you good people love a pic or two I grabbed the camera and will put them up here tomorrow (when I figure out how  Smile  )

Interesting thing is that I know for a FACT that the owner of the adjacent land has not heard ONE SINGLE THING from Vline or whoever it is (Austrak?  National Express?) that runs that damn line.  That was a surprise to the geologists a couple of months ago AND a surprise to the blokes in the orange vests this morning.

Also, since they finished at bloody midday WHY THE HELL DID THEY START SO EARLY??!!??  It couldn't be to get to other work since they left their digger parked on the other side of the creek.
  Taitset Chief Commissioner

Location: Eltham, (former) vintage safeworking capital of Melbourne
Also, dual gauge would prevent the current 115km/h running of sparks between Broadmeadows and Craigieburn, and 130k/h running of vline services between Broadmeadows and Seymour.
"Nexas"


Would the speed restrictions be on the BG and the SG in a dual gauge track, or only the BG?
"SteamtoStay"

80km/h on both AFAIK.
  Alphabet Train Controller

Location: Moonee Ponds
Also, dual gauge would prevent the current 115km/h running of sparks between Broadmeadows and Craigieburn, and 130k/h running of vline services between Broadmeadows and Seymour.
"Nexas"


Would the speed restrictions be on the BG and the SG in a dual gauge track, or only the BG?
"SteamtoStay"

80km/h on both AFAIK.
"Taitset"


I was under the impression that, on the dual gauge between North Geelong and Gheringhap, the speed limit was 80km/h for broad gauge trains but 115km/h for standard gauge trains...?
  Sir Thomas Bent Minister for Railways

Location: Banned
Theres been a lot of environmental assessments done of many station sites on the NE line plus the goulburn valley and toolamba to echuca. what jjd76au might have seen is work on passing loops quite a few I believe are being done by artc.
  packa Junior Train Controller

Not sure how it relates yet, but in the last week there has been hundreds of concrete sleepers dropped on the side of the SG line.  Starting just out of Wodonga and working back south.  So far I would say they have dropped along 8KM, and still going.

And in a completely unrelated matter, They have just completed new boom gates in Barnawartha.  For a few days there were speed restrictions in the area.  We live close to the line and one night a Nth bound grain train had appeared to stall at the intersection, anyway about 30 minutes later they continued after realizing the brakes were on !  (The wonders of a scanner) From what I could hear Adelaide were unimpressed.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney


Also, dual gauge would prevent the current 115km/h running of sparks between Broadmeadows and Craigieburn, and 130k/h running of vline services between Broadmeadows and Seymour.
"Nexas"


Dual gauge with 3 rail DG has a very small gap of 6.5-3 = 3.5 inches between the BG and SG rails, which may trap objects and cause derailments, or so the argument goes. (6.5 inches is difference between gauges, while 3 inches is the width of the head of the rail).

But what about 4 rail DG?

With 4 rail DG, the gaps can be say 11.5 inches on one side and 18 inches on the other side, which gives plenty of space for small object to fall into clear of the running rails.

So what's the problem? Has anyone given this any thought? If four rail DG is feasible then the Up Broadgauge line from Seymour to Craigieburn, except perhaps at intermediate platforms can be converted to DG, so that both DG and SG are effectively double track.

PS. There is some devil in the details.
  SteamtoStay Chief Commissioner

Location: Building floorplates
I'm still confused. The lower track speed makes sense on the BG, given objects getting stuck, etc. But why the SG?
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
I'm still confused. The lower track speed makes sense on the BG, given objects getting stuck, etc. But why the SG?
"SteamtoStay"


Excellent point made by thinking outside the square, SteamToStay.  An object stuck in the 3.5 inch gap between affects the BG much more than the SG line, though the SG line would be affected to some extent.  Still the effect on the SG line would not be zero.

But the 4-rail DG solution mentioned earlier would greatly reduce the hazards to both SG and  BG lines. The 4-rail solution is conspicuous by its absence in any official report, AFAIK, so has it even been considered?
  NSWGR 3827 Deputy Commissioner

Location: South of the Border
What would be likely to get stuck in the Gap?
  SteamtoStay Chief Commissioner

Location: Building floorplates
What would be likely to get stuck in the Gap?
"NSWGR 3827"
Rocks that missed the train, logs (parallel to the tracks), etc.

Remember, all it has to do is get wedged in the 3" gap between the railheads. So, anything solid and about 3" across.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
What would be likely to get stuck in the Gap?
"NSWGR 3827"
Rocks that missed the train, logs (parallel to the tracks), etc.

Remember, all it has to do is get wedged in the 3" gap between the railheads. So, anything solid and about 3" across.
"SteamtoStay"



But what about 4 rail DG?


With 4 rail DG, the gaps can be say 11.5 inches on one side and 18 inches on the other side, which gives plenty of space for small objects to fall into clear of the running rails.

PS. There is some devil in the details.
  Barrington Womble Photo Nazi

Location: Banned
ya forget $$$ @ the end of ya post dalts LaughingWinkRolling EyesRazz( & th stupid sml writting $$$)

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