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FieldShunt74
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Nov 06, 2004
Last Visited: Nov 23, 2008
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Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 4:15 pm
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| 42101 wrote: | | Apparently they are in hock big time to NAB and this bank is calling in the recievers...Can anyone explain this in simple terms as i am not up on what this means as i thought a company could only cal them in on themselves not someone they owe money too calling in them. |
I'm not entirely sure but I believe that when receivers are appointed they take over control of the company and it's assets from the previous management, the board or whoever. They then look at all the company's assets and it's liabilities, what it owes and decide whether or not it's feasible to keep trading or to sell everything and distribute the proceeds to the creditors. There's a batting order with the creditors too, from the secured ones at the top (probably banks and such) down to the unsecured ones at the bottom, contractors, employees maybe. The receivers try to give everyone as much of what they're owed as they can but it can take years and if you're at the bottom of the list you may only get a few cents in the dollar.
The former Ansett employees are an example of unsecured creditors, still getting dribs and drabs years after the fall and probably never getting all their entitlements.
Someone with better knowledge of this stuff correct me, please.
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42101
Banned
Joined: Oct 12, 2005
Last Visited: Sep 27, 2008
Location: Banned
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Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 4:22 pm
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FS74 thanks mate for that it clears things up a bit. 
Banned
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DalyWaters
Deputy Commissioner
Joined: Oct 31, 2006
Last Visited: Nov 20, 2008
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Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 4:48 pm
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| Quote: | | Apparently they are in hock big time to NAB and this bank is calling in the recievers...Can anyone explain this in simple terms as i am not up on what this means as i thought a company could only cal them in on themselves not someone they owe money too calling in them. |
It is usual for banks or creditors to call the receivers in. That is when the creditors believe that their best chance of getting any money back is with a receiver running the show. The receiver will take control and once they have a clear picture of whether the company can be salvaged or not, they may call in the liquidator who will wind up the company and sell the assets on behalf of the creditors.
Sometimes company managers may throw their hands up in the air and declare that they can't see how to get out of their mire. Then they will call in administrators (almost identical to receivers) in the hope that the administrator can turn the company around for them.
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rjaygee
Assistant Commissioner
Joined: Jul 26, 2003
Last Visited: Nov 20, 2008
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Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 10:56 pm
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The company directors can also call in the receivers and thats known as a voluntary receivership whereas creditors calling in the receivers is actually a involuntary receivership. In both cases the directors lose control of the company. The NAB probably has a fixed and floating charge over the assets of Allco and allows them to take control of assets that may change from time to time. Receivership is almost always followed by liquidation after the receivers try to identify and dispose of any saleable assets of the company. Receivers and liquidators are both required to provide a report to ASIC and identify any corporations law or criminal offences if they have been committed. Directors are required to cease trading once they identify the company is insolvent ie not able to pay its debts as they fall due. Since the NAB called in the receivers a possible problem for the directors is that the receiver might identify insolvent trading which puts the directors in the gun with ASIC. On the other hand administrators are usually called in by the directors when the company is not actually insolvent and may be able to trade out of a temporary financial difficulty, however, the directors retain control. This sounds all very ominous for Allco since Kinghorne has reportably thrown in $75m of his own money which has not saved the company.
Cheers
Rod Gayford
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Guerilla Radio
Station Master
Joined: Dec 27, 2005
Last Visited: Aug 18, 2008
Location: NSW
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Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 9:10 pm
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Coote owns the South Spur / Southern & Silverton operations including CERT (training arm) however as far as I know the former Silverton fleet of locos and wagons is owned fully by Allco and leased to Coote.
They have picked up extra trains to Austar Mine (former Pelton) on the SMR and started sending staff to the mine last week for inductions. Not sure what locos they'll use, perhaps 48s class from out west? Word is containerised coal for export.
Guerilla
Locomotive Driver
Newcastle, NSW
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pm1225
Deputy Commissioner
Joined: Aug 29, 2005
Last Visited: Nov 23, 2008
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Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 10:42 pm
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Coote/South Spur purchased 51 loco's from Allco Leasing and 300odd wagons for about $25m. South Spur got all old Silverton locos except the C class but they are on a 10-year lease to South Spur anyway
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Guerilla Radio
Station Master
Joined: Dec 27, 2005
Last Visited: Aug 18, 2008
Location: NSW
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Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:43 pm
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Ah i didn't know about that part. $25m for a load of derelict locos and pre historic wagons. Wow.
Guerilla
Locomotive Driver
Newcastle, NSW
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Demonlord Hightower
Chief Train Controller
Joined: Jan 28, 2005
Last Visited: Oct 26, 2008
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Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 5:00 pm
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From what I've heard, South Spur are to use two T class locos leased from CFCLA hauling 16 container flats. Containers are an interesting way to haul the coal, particularly since this will bypass the bottlenecks at the Kooragang Island & Port Waratah loaders.
The service should start within the next couple of weeks.
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Guerilla Radio
Station Master
Joined: Dec 27, 2005
Last Visited: Aug 18, 2008
Location: NSW
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Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:14 am
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| Demonlord Hightower wrote: | From what I've heard, South Spur are to use two T class locos leased from CFCLA hauling 16 container flats. Containers are an interesting way to haul the coal, particularly since this will bypass the bottlenecks at the Kooragang Island & Port Waratah loaders.
The service should start within the next couple of weeks. |
Yeah I heard that yesterday, however I question a T class axleload on the SMR. I know it is light but only 4 axles? I may be wrong but I imagine it would be too heavy. I frequently run out to Austar and the track isn't much chop.
Also from what I've been told they will run to Walsh Point (kooragang) with open top containers where it will be presumably road hauled to the unloader. 14 wagon trains to start with, around 1000t to start. 2 x crews 12 hr shifts with no room for error with busting shift limits (since when does Siverton worry about exceeding 12hrs anyway). I really don't see how Silverton can make money off it.
The other concern of mine is that there are currently no drivers qualified on that route. It is a 2 year road and it's been over 2 years since any Silverton drivers used the line. From what I hear there are 2 people they say are qualified but one is from Sydney and never regularly worked it even back then. Anyway since when do Silverton care about qualifications. This is the company that sent unqualified crews out to the Wambo line construction, and also sent unqualified crews to Narrabri, Moree, Walgett on ballast trains. They seem to think if it's a ballast train it don't matter if you know the road.
Sorry about the rant.
Guerilla
Locomotive Driver
Newcastle, NSW
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Demonlord Hightower
Chief Train Controller
Joined: Jan 28, 2005
Last Visited: Oct 26, 2008
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Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:24 am
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I agree with the rant. I would think that the T Class would be restricted to about 25km/h (since 48's generally only travel at a maximum 35-40km/h) on the line due to its poor condition.
Now off topic for a moment. While I would like to see the line upgraded, it won't happen unless there is enough interest for rail access into the Hunter Economic Zone, plus if the Hydro Aluminium Smelter at Kurri decides to switch to rail haulage.
Now back on topic.
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Guerilla Radio
Station Master
Joined: Dec 27, 2005
Last Visited: Aug 18, 2008
Location: NSW
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Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:28 pm
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| Demonlord Hightower wrote: | I agree with the rant. I would think that the T Class would be restricted to about 25km/h (since 48's generally only travel at a maximum 35-40km/h) on the line due to its poor condition.
Now off topic for a moment. While I would like to see the line upgraded, it won't happen unless there is enough interest for rail access into the Hunter Economic Zone, plus if the Hydro Aluminium Smelter at Kurri decides to switch to rail haulage.
Now back on topic. |
30km/h is the max speed all the way, except from Neath to Abermain which is 20km/h.
It would indeed be fantastic to see rail access to HEZ but i doubt it will happen. Ditto for Hydro.
Guerilla
Locomotive Driver
Newcastle, NSW
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LocoShed
Chief Train Controller
Joined: Mar 15, 2006
Last Visited: Nov 3, 2008
Location: Stuck in this 1st world country! :-(
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Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:16 am
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| Guerilla Radio wrote: |
30km/h is the max speed all the way, except from Neath to Abermain which is 20km/h.
It would indeed be fantastic to see rail access to HEZ but i doubt it will happen. Ditto for Hydro. |
I was talking to a local at Gilleston Heights who was at a meeting regarding this. He said that Hydro were wanting to use rail as part of their expansion plans, but that the community kicked up a huge stink.
Have seen maps of the HEZ including rail access utilizing a very small part of an old coal line. This, of course, would assume anyone there had a need for rail.
Like everyone else, I would certainly welcome the extra traffic.
Brad
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Guerilla Radio
Station Master
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Location: NSW
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Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:08 pm
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Have spoken to a mate at Silverton. It is coal in open topped containers destined for Japan. The coal PN hauls is for China, and the chinese owners of the mine have won a contract with a Japanese company but PN can't meet the demand.
It goes by rail to Kooragang, onto the Walsh Point branch to Mountain Industries who will road haul it to the PWCS loaders.
T class is the motive power at the moment, apparently they just make the axle load, until the 48s class are free from Parkes.
Oh and apparently it is a 5 year road, so i will eat my words from previous posts and swallow them along with my pride. I've always admitted my mistakes ha ha.
Guerilla
Locomotive Driver
Newcastle, NSW
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zimsta
Locomotive Fireman
Joined: Jun 09, 2003
Last Visited: Nov 23, 2008
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Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:27 am
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Since when does silverton ever make money lol
S&S smeg and smeg
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LocoShed
Chief Train Controller
Joined: Mar 15, 2006
Last Visited: Nov 3, 2008
Location: Stuck in this 1st world country! :-(
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Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:44 am
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| zimsta wrote: | | Since when does silverton ever make money lol |
I believe this new service is considered "make or break" for them.
Have heard that the Ts are only expected to be used for around 6 months until, like Mr Radio says, they are replaced with 48s.
Will these be current 48s class, or are they going to perform some miracles with their recent purchases?
The 48s class already seem quite heavily utilized out west (at least from my past visits), although one or two have been out of action for some time.
Anyway, don't waste time getting those T class shots.
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