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ZH836301
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Apr 26, 2006
Last Visited: Nov 23, 2008
Location: BleakCity
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Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 6:35 pm
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Lol, 300m long 'metro' platforms - could this get any more stupid
Wait it can - Doncaster line for $1.7-2 billion. Surely that includes some inner city tunneling, you say? But no, that's the cost for a line from Doncaster just tacked onto the Clifton Hill group.
Perth builds to Mandurah with more underground work, and we can't even make it the 12ish kilometres to Doncaster - a phenomenal $167 million per kilometre; compare that with the 2003 NCCCS valuation for double tube tunnel at $40 million per kilometre. This complete and utter BS costing (I can't put it any other way) was used by Eddington as a postulate for recommending DART over the railway option.
Best toss the whole thing in the bin, where it belongs (you should submit that Tonzo, I sure will).
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ZH836301
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Apr 26, 2006
Last Visited: Nov 23, 2008
Location: BleakCity
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melbtrip
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Mar 02, 2004
Last Visited: Nov 23, 2008
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Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:24 pm
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Under this plan going by the map it will allow suburban users to use Geelong Service.
It would be great to see Geelong train run via Sunshine so people can change at Sunshine for the Ballart and Bendigo services and benefits doing this are:
• People will get access to cheaper fares under MYKI if they need to travel to other country city because they would change at Sunshine
• Werribee can go express via express loop and the state government can have a stopping all station train from Laverton
Best way to run V/Line services from Melbourne (Geelong, Ballart and Bendigo services) is by the following: Southern Cross to North Melbourne and then Express to Sunshine.
There is no need to stop at Footscray because people can change trains at Sunshine or at North Melbourne and it would cut travelling times for country users.
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melbtrip
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Mar 02, 2004
Last Visited: Nov 23, 2008
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Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:30 pm
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| ZH836301 wrote: | Here's the rock farmer special:
Over 28km of new track, 37km by trackage to Sunshine, 44km to Footscray
For comparison, the existing route is only 32Km to Footscray.
Footscray is the ninth station via Laverton, but via this new line (even including the quad track), it would be the tenth station - so much for avoiding suburban trains.
Geelong trains currently reach Footscray (from the proposed split point) in under 23 minutes - to match this, trains using the new line would need to average 115Km/h over the entire journey to Footscray (whilst dodging suburban trains, no differently to the Werribee corridor).
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You map has missed West Werribee station, it going be located near where two rail line meet each other.
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calembeena
Station Staff
Joined: Mar 23, 2008
Last Visited: Nov 22, 2008
Location: Oakleigh
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Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 2:54 pm
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What are the issues of running the southern end of the tunnel Caulfield - SY, then going to the Domain interchange apart from the large twists?
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tom9876543
Station Master
Joined: May 29, 2007
Last Visited: Nov 16, 2008
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Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 6:57 pm
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I think the proposed tarneit line is stupid - because its got sharp turns. The line should be straight as possible so in future trains can go 200km/h. The train line should provide the most benefit to people who live futherest away from the CBD. The current proposal is something you would expect from the 1880's aka Bungaree loop.
Also the proposed rail tunnel should begin between Sunshine and Tottenham. If people want to go to Footscray etc they can change trains at Sunshine. However for the majority who want to go to the city i guess this would save 10 - 15 minutes off the trip. That is a huge saving if you have Ballarat, Bendigo and Geelong travellers using the new tunnel.
The car tunnel is a waste of public money. If a private consortium wants to build a toll road then yes go ahead, but there is no way in hell government $$$ should be spent on it.
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kuldalai
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Jan 14, 2003
Last Visited: Nov 20, 2008
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Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 7:25 pm
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It helps immensely if you read the DOI document as it gives a lot more operational detail of the whole proposal and the whole strategy .
* Sunbury/Sydenham sparks go into new tunnel near West Footscray which releases two existing lines from there to Franklin St which are then used exclusively by VLP trains .
* West Footscray - Sunshine goes to four tracks of which two are express tracks for the longer distance sparks and all VLP trains.
* The Tarneit line is double track high speed with only two intermediate stations initially, Not electrified initially . Wyndamvale and Tarneit served initially by VLP . In peak times trains originating / terminating Lara .
* Werribee sparks extended to new station near Browns Rd have exclusive use of existing route. Werribee ttarisn through routed to Sandringham and no longer to run via Loop.
Read this in detail it is well thought out and provides the extra capacity as well as removing a lot of complexity of the the existing operation .
www.doi.vic.gov.au/DOI/DOIElect.nsf/alldocs/2DE07DE58D313680CA25741E0021CC53/$FILE/EWLNA-Analysis_on_Rail_Capacity.pdf
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Riccardo
Minister for Railways
Joined: Aug 20, 2003
Last Visited: Nov 22, 2008
Location: Elsewhere
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Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 8:07 pm
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| kuldalai wrote: | It helps immensely if you read the DOI document as it gives a lot more operational detail of the whole proposal and the whole strategy .
* Sunbury/Sydenham sparks go into new tunnel near West Footscray which releases two existing lines from there to Franklin St which are then used exclusively by VLP trains .
* West Footscray - Sunshine goes to four tracks of which two are express tracks for the longer distance sparks and all VLP trains.
* The Tarneit line is double track high speed with only two intermediate stations initially, Not electrified initially . Wyndamvale and Tarneit served initially by VLP . In peak times trains originating / terminating Lara .
* Werribee sparks extended to new station near Browns Rd have exclusive use of existing route. Werribee ttarisn through routed to Sandringham and no longer to run via Loop.
Read this in detail it is well thought out and provides the extra capacity as well as removing a lot of complexity of the the existing operation .
www.doi.vic.gov.au/DOI/DOIElect.nsf/alldocs/2DE07DE58D313680CA25741E0021CC53/$FILE/EWLNA-Analysis_on_Rail_Capacity.pdf |
Interesting stuff Kudelai, but the question still stands: How to get from West Werribee to Footsray in 23 minutes via Tarneit as per the existing route? Especially with 2 station stops.
What happens to the RFR investment that was made to specifically reduce Geelong travel times? Down the toilet?
If you need to get in touch, drop a comment at the Transport Textbook or on my blog.
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Aussie Steve
Deputy Commissioner
Joined: May 13, 2003
Last Visited: Nov 18, 2008
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Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 10:13 am
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The Tarneit line is to be used by Geelong services ONLY. All Werribee services are to continue along their existing tracks into Flinders St.
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melbtrip
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Mar 02, 2004
Last Visited: Nov 23, 2008
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Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 10:22 am
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| Aussie Steve wrote: | | The Tarneit line is to be used by Geelong services ONLY. All Werribee services are to continue along their existing tracks into Flinders St. |
Yes but West Werribee will become like Pakenham now, so People that use West Werribee station should be able to use both V/Line service and the Connex service.
They need say they are traveling to Tarneit.
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calembeena
Station Staff
Joined: Mar 23, 2008
Last Visited: Nov 22, 2008
Location: Oakleigh
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fogcv
Train Controller
Joined: Dec 06, 2006
Last Visited: Nov 23, 2008
Location: The Burnley Group
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Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 11:24 am
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Wait, it gets worse!
Tarneit Line: Cost Between $0.5 Billion AND $1.5 Billion.
STAGE 1 of the rail tunnel is Footscray to Domain. Cost $4.5 Billion.
STAGE 2 of the rail tunnel is Domain to Caulfield. Cost $2.5 Billion.
i.e. up to $6.0 Billion to fix RFR between Werribee / Sunshine and North Melbourne. A "wolf in sheep's clothing" to be paid for by Melbourne PT users AND property owners in the Eastern Suburbs [Eddington Recommendation No. 18] who have absolutely no need to ever travel to a rock farm in Tarneit!
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IIRC, the City Loop was meant to work something like ...
Northern Group:
Newport Trains --> Loop
Sunshine Trains --> Direct to Spencer Street. (Platforms 7 & 8?)
Broadmeadows (now Craigeburn) and Upfield Trains through-routed to form Dandenong Line and/or Frankston Line stoppers. (They built those two extra viaduct tracks for a reason folks!)
Caulfield Group: Frankston / Dandenong expresses go via Caulfield Loop. Stoppers through routed to Broadmeadows (now Craigeburn) / Upfield.
Burnley Group: Same as Eddington. Stoppers (Alamein, Blackburn & Glen Waverley) direct to Flinders Street. Expresses via Loop.
Clifton Hill Group: Same as Eddington. All trains via Loop.
(Country trains to Spencer Street rather than via loop.)
Cost $0.00. Catch a tram to Melbourne Uni or St.Kilda Road (Domain), if you need to go there.
-----------------------------------
The Ghost of (Sir) John Monash (Circa 1931)
Last edited by fogcv on Sun Apr 06, 2008 4:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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drwaddles
In need of a breath mint
Joined: Aug 16, 2006
Last Visited: Nov 23, 2008
Location: Lifting the A-League trophy!
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Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 11:32 am
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This gets worse with every post. 
Hopefully I'll see some sense when I get the chance to read the report and submissions.
People who talk out their asre usually have bad breath.
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tomohawk
Chief Train Controller
Joined: Nov 05, 2007
Last Visited: Nov 23, 2008
Location: Abbotsford, Melbourne
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Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 12:52 pm
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| tom9876543 wrote: |
Also the proposed rail tunnel should begin between Sunshine and Tottenham. If people want to go to Footscray etc they can change trains at Sunshine. However for the majority who want to go to the city i guess this would save 10 - 15 minutes off the trip. That is a huge saving if you have Ballarat, Bendigo and Geelong travellers using the new tunnel.
[/img] |
Valid, however to run V/Line through the tunnel you would have to either electrify the Ballarat, Bendigo, and Geelong lines, or design the tunnel with significant ventillation (at significant cost) and provide underground turnback facillities, unless you plan to run the DMUs all the way out to Caulfield to turn them round.
You would no longer be able to run those V/Line services to Southern Cross Station.
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fogcv
Train Controller
Joined: Dec 06, 2006
Last Visited: Nov 23, 2008
Location: The Burnley Group
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Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 5:31 pm
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| tom9876543 wrote: | However for the majority who want to go to the city i guess this would save 10 - 15 minutes off the trip. That is a huge saving if you have Ballarat, Bendigo and Geelong travellers using the new tunnel.
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V/Line trains would have clear pathways on the surface. Electric trains would use the tunnel. Delays would be minimised for V/Line trains.
Interchange at Footscray for Williamstown and (West) Werribee Lines.
Interchange at North Melbourne for Craigeburn and Upfield Lines.
Interchange at Sunshine for UNIVERSITY and DOMAIN.
The routing of Geelong trains via Sunshine could be to enable V/Line passengers to interchange at Sunshine for another V/Line Service (e.g. Geelong - Bendigo) without coming further into Melbourne and then back out again.
Note: Sunshine is described as a "Vibrant Hub" in Eddington's Report. Go figure.
The Ghost of (Sir) John Monash (Circa 1931)
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