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Somebody in the WWW
Comeng Gunzel
Joined: Oct 08, 2004
Last Visited: Nov 23, 2008
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Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 9:04 pm
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| melbtrip wrote: | | What normally happens after Electrification project in Victoria, numbers of service normally increase especially on the weekend. |
Here's a link for you and the other it-cant-be-frequent-unless-its-electric dribblers:
http://www.cityrail.info/timetable/ttable.jsp?line=hu&day=wd&dir=dn&page=02
But wait, there's no way that a reasonably frequent service like that example could be run with diesel trains like this, is there?
"The trains at Pennant Hills run roughly every half hour. Nobody in their right mind uses a service that shoddy. That so many do just proves how many dumb and/or desperate people there are in Sydney." - MrPC
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alstom_888m
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Aug 26, 2007
Last Visited: Nov 23, 2008
Location: Craigieburn Suburban Railway Line, Melbourne
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Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 10:21 pm
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I can think of many DMU's that can start/stop faster than a Comeng. These have a higher top speed too.
Electrification is not necessary or even viable in the present climate.
For any outer-urban line I would get a DMU, something reasonably fast (115-130kmh max), something that can stop/start as quickly if not faster than a Comeng (Want examples of such a DMU? Try the Bombardier Turbostar), while having a suburban-style interior.
In all honesty my vision is a more modern Sprinter or SA PoxBox.
Reliable, Economical, Safe, By Rail.
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409
Minister for Railways
Joined: Jul 25, 2004
Last Visited: Nov 23, 2008
Location: "Well, we sorta hit a little snag when the universe sorta collapsed on itself."
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Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 11:14 pm
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| alstom_888m wrote: | For any outer-urban line I would get a DMU, something reasonably fast (115-130kmh max), something that can stop/start as quickly if not faster than a Comeng (Want examples of such a DMU? Try the Bombardier Turbostar), while having a suburban-style interior.
In all honesty my vision is a more modern Sprinter or SA PoxBox. |
Trust me mate, you do not want to go down that road! Even though they are basically a diesel comeng, they do not share the same accelaration rate (especially when the engine is constantly misfiring!) Takes forever and a day to reach maximum track speed of 90km/h if the engine isn't too healthy.
2008 BOGIE AWARD WINNER - Best Contribution to Model Railways
 LINK TO YOUTUBE PROFILE
"I'd use an 830 for my respirator!" |
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The Vinelander
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Mar 28, 2006
Last Visited: Nov 23, 2008
Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
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Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 8:05 am
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| Riccardo wrote: | Shirley you can't be serious Mike.
Smegging profanities are only deflected from your delicate eyes by .......SNIP...... |
....And don't call me Shirley 
I hardly have delicate eyes, nor a delicate constitution for that matter 
An example, many years ago the ABC along with SBS, pushed the envelope with profane language and it's only used in a context that justifies. I only watch ABC TV.
Posters who need to be profane, lack the skills to get their message across, and I don't need to read that simply because of their poor communications skills.
OK, I'll try Phins blog the next time I'm thumb twiddling.
Mike.
The Vinelander, from Melbourne to Mildura was Victoria's only overnight sleeping car train which was launched 8/8/1972.
Ballan, the best town, on the best railway line, in the best state, of the best country in the World.
Longreach, Qld here we come The old pioneering town will never be the same. |
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alstom_888m
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Aug 26, 2007
Last Visited: Nov 23, 2008
Location: Craigieburn Suburban Railway Line, Melbourne
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Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 4:19 pm
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| 409 wrote: | | Trust me mate, you do not want to go down that road! Even though they are basically a diesel comeng, they do not share the same accelaration rate (especially when the engine is constantly misfiring!) Takes forever and a day to reach maximum track speed of 90km/h if the engine isn't too healthy. |
Hmm... maybe I don't. The PoxBox would be far too slow then, we need a max speed of at least 115.
What about the current VLocity with a revised interior for suburban running? (Cheap longitudinal suburban seating, removal of toilets, maybe add another door). Such a train could replace H-sets at the same time.
Create an electric version to replace our current stock on areas currently electrified.
Further down the track, create a long-range version with catering and first class to replace N-sets on InterCity services.
Four types of train, one family.
- VLocity 160: The original VLocity used for InterUrban services to Geelong, Ballarat, Bendigo, Seymour/Shepparton, Tararlagon, and Leongatha.
- VLocity InterCity: Features catering and first class travel for longer runs. Used for services to Warrnambool, Ararat, Mildura(?), Swan Hill, Echuca, Albury, Bairnsdale. Replaces current N-sets.
- VLocity HC: Fast accelerating, High capacity train for outer suburban running to Bacchus Marsh and Sunbury. Replaces H-sets and later Sprinters.
- ELocity: Electric suburban train designed to supplement and later replace Melbourne's current electric traction. Features longitudal seating and five doors per side, per car.
Reliable, Economical, Safe, By Rail.
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Somebody in the WWW
Comeng Gunzel
Joined: Oct 08, 2004
Last Visited: Nov 23, 2008
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Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 4:34 pm
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He said the track speed in Adelaide was 90km/h, not the trains maximum speed. An interesting bit of trivia is that Adelaide's Jumbo railcars could reach 160km/h easily if there was track good enough for it
If you want a DMU for suburban-ish runs try something like the Hunter railcars in NSW.
Longitudinal seating is only suitable for short metro-style runs - good examples in Melbourne would be Upfield or Sandringham. NOT long runs to far outer areas - metro style trains are the last thing that is suitable for Bacchus Marsh, Pakenham, or any other place that is so far away that you see many cows on the way there. About 30mins/15km is the furthermost you should have metros to.
"The trains at Pennant Hills run roughly every half hour. Nobody in their right mind uses a service that shoddy. That so many do just proves how many dumb and/or desperate people there are in Sydney." - MrPC
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AzN_dj
Deputy Commissioner
Joined: Dec 20, 2006
Last Visited: Oct 18, 2008
Location: Chelsea
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Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 10:19 pm
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As for the debate between DMUs and EMUs, I am reaching a conclusion that in the future, we may not need to electrify train services?
Why?
Development of hydrogen fuel cells. I reckon in 20 years, it would be standard for motor vehicles to be using hydrogen fuel cells - why would this not work for trains?
Hence would it be easier to just purchase all new trains after they finish hydrogen fuel cell development with hydrogen as the fuel source? It would be greener, and the trains will be able to run theoretically anywhere (that is, if they are built to correct dimensions) - INCLUDING the city loop as they will not emit carbon monoxide into the tunnel - only water vapour.
After we have hydrogen fuel cells, will this mean we will phase out the era of EMUs?
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Ned Ludd
Assistant Commissioner
Joined: Feb 16, 2006
Last Visited: Nov 23, 2008
Location: Touched by the noodly appendage
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Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 11:09 pm
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Oh for God's sake we have had H2 fuel cells ever since the space race. It's a red herring! Where are you going to get the H2 from? How are you going to transport it?
Here's a smart idea - let's burn a smeg of coal to generate electricity to electrolyse water to capture free hydrogen to put in the fuel cells to combine with O2 to produce H2O. We'll just forget that all that coal emitted tons of CO2 into the atmosphere. That puts us right back where we are now, only with another level of complexity! Only a politician could be that stupid.
Develop me a methane fuel cell and I'll give you kudos. I'm sick of these cretins who think there is a free lunch in hydrogen. It's one of the most reactive substances on the planet - that's why most of it is tied up in water.
[/rant]
Nothing personal AzN_Dj. Lots of people think the same thing. They just haven't thought it through.
From years of study I have derived two observations:
1. The sum of human intelligence is a constant.
2. The population is increasing.
Disclaimer: All typo's in this post are part of the ineffable plan of the Flying Spaghetti Monster
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fabricator
Deputy Commissioner
Joined: Jun 12, 2007
Last Visited: Nov 23, 2008
Location: Gawler
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Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 9:12 am
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| Somebody in the WWW wrote: | He said the track speed in Adelaide was 90km/h, not the trains maximum speed. An interesting bit of trivia is that Adelaide's Jumbo railcars could reach 160km/h easily if there was track good enough for it
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140km/h is the highest speed achieved in practice, but that was using the Adelaide to Melbourne line when it was still broad gauge.
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the VLocity bodywork steel, instead of stainless steel ?
I'm pretty sure you need to use stainless steel bodywork for electric trains to remove the risk of corrosion due to electric currents passing through the shell (fallen cables or other faults). I know the jumbos were made stainless steel so they could be converted to electric at some point.
Oh and you definitely don't want the poxboxes, sometimes the engine has trouble just idling much less getting the train up to 90km/h.
Fuel cell technology is pointless for trains. The cells at the moment are so expensive that few besides NASA can afford them. The use of expensive metals isn't an easy thing to work around. Better to use 25kv overhead for longer distance trains.
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