VFT-Pie in the Sky-Linking 6 cities

Wilfy2007 · Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 4:45 pm

Gidday,
Been doing some drawing on my Rail jouneys map this afternoon and wondered if it would be possible to have a very fast train run from Adelaide to Brisbane via Broken Hill, Bourke, Goondiwindi, Toowoomba and Brisbane.
Branches could be from Bourke to Newcastle, Bouke to Sydney, Bouke to Canberra and Bouke to Melbourne.

As the title says " Pie in the Sky"

Regards,
Wilfy 2007.

Pressman · Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 6:10 pm

When and if they build the proposed "Inland Railway" Melbourne to Brisbane, then you have a connection at Parkes to Adelaide via Broken Hill.
There seems to be a lot of talk about this proposal but not much action.
As for a VFT, is 110kph classified as very fast?

Cheers,
Tony
On the road again, it's my yearly "paid holiday" time again! Very Happy

http://tony33.fotopic.net

Somebody in the WWW · Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 6:22 pm

Good luck finding passengers for that one Wilfy! Laughing

Only section of that which will eventually be built will be the upgrade of the line through the Toowoomba Range to permit a proper rail service from Toowoomba to Brisbane. Otherwise, forget about it! Wink

If you want me to be honest, I don't that I will ever see any form of high-speed train running out of Adelaide in my lifetime, although I do believe that I will eventually see either an expansion of the light rail system, an electrified suburban system or both.

"The trains at Pennant Hills run roughly every half hour. Nobody in their right mind uses a service that shoddy. That so many do just proves how many dumb and/or desperate people there are in Sydney." - MrPC

Speed · Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 6:44 pm

The New Inland Rail Corridor thread discusses the Melbourne to Brisbane/Gladstone railway. It was woken up when the new Prime Minister was sworn in. Then again, the idea was raised back in 1996 soon after a Liberal-National coalition government was elected federally.

That route was intended for freight. The line speed suggested fluctuates between 100 and 300 km/h.

If you wanted a passenger service, you'd expect faster than 110 for something described as a VFT. Most threads on Sydney - Melbourne say 3 hours between the 2 cities is the most that could be competitive. You'd also need to have an arrangement where the trains stop at Canberra. For "Pie in the Sky", there's no reason why you couldn't have 4 VFT lines terminating at the national capital.

Aaron · Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 12:01 am

If I wanted to go from Adelaide to Brisbane I'd get the plane and so would any other sensible person.

Aaron
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simont141 · Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 12:28 am

Golconda · Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 6:55 am

"Same goes for any capital city I think. Cheaper, quicker, safer."

I would go rail as a preference for any 300kph Sydney-Melbourne, Sydney Canberra, Melbourne - Canberra etc. For the usual reasons, CBD-CBD, more comfortable, no taxi connections, fewer security headaches and comparable point to point times. There is also a very real greenhouse credit.

Sydney Brisbane might be a bit harder. Melbourne Brisbane? Pensioners and railfans only.

Nobody is going to build any dedicated high speed dedicated passenger alighnment direct Adeliade - Sydney. Even with a few billlions in signals and track work on the current alignment to make it happen, you are still talking 8 hours plus in a 160-220 km/hr diesel loco hauled train or railcar.

Not competitive unless there is a major legislative intervention, and that wont happen.

john-ston · Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 12:08 pm

simont141 · Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 1:32 pm

Klink · Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 2:21 pm

The Very Fast Train...that brings back memories: the concept has been kicking around since Bob Hawke was PM and the Southern Aurora had been wound up!

They would have to make it convienient, and trendy enough that business people/people with cash would be interested in using it (maybe promote it as the new 'Orient Express' or 'Spirit of Progress')

Definately, though, if they promoted the environmental aspect people would be more keen on using it. Problem is air tickets between Melb-Adelaide cost like $99

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simont141 · Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 2:51 pm

It generally costs more to travel by train - except if you're unlucky and miss out on the cheap plane tickets. The one exception may be going to Melbourne, which is $99 return at the moment (although i have seen flights to Melbourne this cheap).

The problem is that interstate train travel from Adelaide is now focused around people going on a holiday - it's just not practical for someone with a full time job to travel by train for business.

Example: Leave Adelaide at 7:40am on a Monday... the next train back isn't until Thursday (excluding the Tuesday 8:05 service, which you realistically wouldn't catch if your their for a days business).

I'd be more inclined if it was on overnight service, but even then I'd probably still prefer to fly.

Simon

www.prr.org.au

Pressman · Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 4:09 pm

Whether we like it or not, Australia just doesn't have the population base to warrant VFT's between the Capital Cities.
If we had the population that Europe does then things would be quite different.
Cheap airfares and the trend to "Get there as quick as possible" have killed off long distance Commuter trains in this country.

Cheers,
Tony
On the road again, it's my yearly "paid holiday" time again! Very Happy

http://tony33.fotopic.net

Golconda · Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 6:50 am

If you are talking about business travel its more likely 129 or 149 and booked through an agent that charges a commision. Then you have the $30 cab ride Sydney CBD airport and the $50 Melbourne CBD cab.

As for population density, there is roughly 7,000,000 people with a lot of common business, seperated by a lot of farmland and scrubby mountain ranges. Annual passenger movements Melbourne Sydney are something like 6,000,000 and growing at 5-10%. Thats a market for a lot of fast trains.

It would not be economic on a stand alone, independently financed basis.

If there is a perception of national interest, issues with new airports or airport exapansion, greenhouse issues etc.... ?

fabricator · Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 5:22 pm

When aviation fuel gets so expensive that its cheaper to travel on the train, that is when we can start thinking about this sort of thing.

Sydney to Canberra to Port Augusta to Perth would be a good fast run. Get the fastest train we can afford and pick up a land speed record for fastest scheduled train, the Nullabor section would have almost unlimited speeds with the right track, hey no bends.

Pressman · Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 5:26 pm