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Hendo
Train Controller
Joined: Jun 11, 2006
Last Visited: Nov 30, 2008
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Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:17 am
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Now need to seperate the track from the above rail serices, with track back to the state mnaged on their behalf by someone like ARTC and free access to rail companies And get some of the Building ustralia funds to increase freigh speeds to 80-90 kmh on the route to compete with trucks
cheer,
Chris
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tasrail
Moderator
Joined: Jan 14, 2003
Last Visited: Nov 28, 2008
Location: Hobart, Tasmania
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Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 8:53 am
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| Z1NorthernProgress2110 wrote: | | I'm wondering that myself. I suppose, PN are selling everything, that does include the Melba line as well. |
Another email I received said "entire rail business", so that would be equipment, rolling-stock and where applicable ongoing contracts and leases.
| Hendo wrote: | | Now need to seperate the track from the above rail serices, with track back to the state mnaged on their behalf by someone like ARTC and free access to rail companies And get some of the Building ustralia funds to increase freigh speeds to 80-90 kmh on the route to compete with trucks |
Umm, that is the case now (although PN do have some of the maintenance and operational contracts)
Regards,
Stuart
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Johnmc
Moderator
Joined: Oct 21, 2003
Last Visited: Dec 2, 2008
Location: Cloncurry, Queensland
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Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 11:36 am
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| rjaygee wrote: | | The poster claiming GWA has captured the North Qld traffic is confusing GWA and ARG. |
Rod, you beat me to it.  I would direct 12CVST to the "ARG Takeover of the North-West Corridor" thread for more information.
| Hendo wrote: | | Now need to seperate the track from the above rail serices, with track back to the state mnaged on their behalf by someone like ARTC and free access to rail companies. |
Not knowing the Tasrail scene, how *many* rail companies are going to want to compete against each other in Tasmania?
As for above/below seperation, i'll be the voice in the wilderness. Lease/sublease/whatever the track to the operator, and make maintenance their responsibility. <soapbox> The whole above rail/below rail thing is a Eurocentric concept which should never have been bought over here in the first place. </soapbox>....
(/me wanders off, muttering under his breath)
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bingley hall
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Nov 09, 2005
Last Visited: Nov 29, 2008
Location: gone fishin
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Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:54 pm
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| rjaygee wrote: | I doubt if GWA would be interested in TR as they would really like to exit the Sth Australian operation according to some sources.
Cheers
Rod Gayford |
Be interested to know who those sources are as just eight months ago at a semi-public forum the President of GWI acknowledged that they were turning down offers on a weekly basis for the GWA business.
With the weakening of the US dollar, their operations in Australia now allow them to repatriate even higher profits than they were when he made those comments.
Bing
Life is just a bowl of All Bran...you wake up every morning and it's there
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BP4417
Junior Train Controller
Joined: Jan 14, 2007
Last Visited: Dec 1, 2008
Location: Launceston, Tasmania
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Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:03 pm
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Johnmc wrote
[As for above/below seperation, i'll be the voice in the wilderness. Lease/sublease/whatever the track to the operator, and make maintenance their responsibility.]
Private operators are clearly the reason for deteriorated track conditions in Tasmania.
Track condition has gone down hill ever since the Federal Australian National sell off. example is the Emu Bay Line, it now takes two crews to run ore trains to Melba and back to Burnie and all its added costs. It used to take one crew .
Private Operators in Tasmania have had a policy of flog the track infrastructure into the ground and carry out a minimum maintenance policy. Granted when privately owned the Emu Bay Railway took pride in track condition.
How do you make the maintenance and repair of track infrastructure the responsibility of a private operator, if they don't want to invest in maintenance they wont. Under the Rail Rescue Package PN were supposed to invest in "New" rollingstock for Tasmania, I dont think 3 MKA's can be considered as new.
Does Johnmc support a similar lease/sublease proposal for roads and private road transport operators?
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Johnmc
Moderator
Joined: Oct 21, 2003
Last Visited: Dec 2, 2008
Location: Cloncurry, Queensland
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Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:02 pm
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| BP4417 wrote: |
How do you make the maintenance and repair of track infrastructure the responsibility of a private operator, if they don't want to invest in maintenance they wont. Under the Rail Rescue Package PN were supposed to invest in "New" rollingstock for Tasmania, I dont think 3 MKA's can be considered as new.
Does Johnmc support a similar lease/sublease proposal for roads and private road transport operators? |
Johnmc is amused that the response to his reply suddenly switches from 2nd ("How do you") to the 3rd ("Does Johnmc") person.
My point - and I hope we agree - is that I don't believe above/below rail separation benefits anyone except the bureaucracy, who then report that rail systems are now "free" and "open", and that Evil Forces of Unfair Monopolies have been vanquished.
As you've said, track conditions have gotten worse since the sell-off. Would that be the case if there had been traditional vertically integrated operators since then?
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drwaddles
In need of a breath mint
Joined: Aug 16, 2006
Last Visited: Dec 1, 2008
Location: Lifting the A-League trophy!
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Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:13 pm
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Johnmc, PNT 'owned' (by long-term lease iirc) the above AND below rail operations and completely ran it into the ground.
It's not so much rail operators competing against each other in Tasmania, but the Government funding one lot of infrastructure (road) competing against a then-privately owned rail line.
I'm not sure Tasmania is ideal for the ARTC-style arrangement due to its size but it represents a simialr operating condition to roads which are owned by the Government and then operated on by private companies who pay access fees (rego).
People who talk out their asre usually have bad breath.
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12CSVT
Chief Train Controller
Joined: Nov 26, 2006
Last Visited: Nov 29, 2008
Location: In a dark tunnel
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Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:48 pm
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| Quote: |
The poster claiming GWA has captured the North Qld traffic is confusing GWA and ARG.
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Woops, my mistake. (yes, I did confuse the current ARG with the old G&W run version) I thought it was odd to think G&W might have expanded out of SA, as it was always my understanding, as well, that they were contracting and trying to exit Aus.
So the thought that QR(N) had ceded the Great Northern is a furphy on my part! 
Cheers,
SZ
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Z1NorthernProgress2110
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Nov 30, 2004
Last Visited: Dec 1, 2008
Location: Burnie, Tasmania
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Johnmc
Moderator
Joined: Oct 21, 2003
Last Visited: Dec 2, 2008
Location: Cloncurry, Queensland
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Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 4:16 pm
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| drwaddles wrote: | Johnmc, PNT 'owned' (by long-term lease iirc) the above AND below rail operations and completely ran it into the ground.
It's not so much rail operators competing against each other in Tasmania, but the Government funding one lot of infrastructure (road) competing against a then-privately owned rail line. |
Fair enough (I did say i wasn't clued up on the state of affairs in Tasrail  ), apologies to BP4417 for my ignorance.
In which case, I vote for TGR MkII.
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12CSVT
Chief Train Controller
Joined: Nov 26, 2006
Last Visited: Nov 29, 2008
Location: In a dark tunnel
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Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 4:17 pm
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| Quote: |
I'm not sure Tasmania is ideal for the ARTC-style arrangement due to its size but it represents a simialr operating condition to roads which are owned by the Government and then operated on by private companies who pay access fees (rego).
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The Tas. Govt. did invite ARTC to take over track management in Tas. but they weren't interested, from what I recall. So management was left to PNT (bad mistake) whilst ownership was assumed by the Govt. through the Rail Management Unit (RMU). However tripartite negotiations through the RMU (owner), Rail Safety Unit aka RSU (regulator) and PNT (track manager) became somewhat like nuclear disarmanent negotiations in North Korea!
Also, having PNT act as manager put off any further operators entering the state, even if they were prepared to operate alongside PNT. South Spur (Coote) made that clear in their submission. Now everything is up for sale, I hope the Govt. take the opportunity to assume management through the RMU or contract an independant body to do so.
Whilst there is not room for more than one principal line-haul operator in the state, there is potential for a specialist niche operator to work as a complimentary, as opposed to competing operation.
The WA combination of QRN (ARG) working linehaul with South Spur (Coote) working trips, shunts, maintenance, etc. could work, as long as an independant Track Manager can adjudicate without prejudice.
There is decent traffic to be had and grown and money to be made if we can get operators that are serious about building a business in Tas.
Its not suprising PNT couldn't make any income in Tasmania when they did nothing but alienate customers, throw away traffic and refuse to consider chasing or developing new business. Any company with such a negative approach to their business deserves to fail. So good riddance PN and hopefully the next operator(s) are prepared to employ fresh management who WANT to run a railway, look for business, serve their customers and provide an effective transport alternative in this state.
Cheers,
SZ
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12CSVT
Chief Train Controller
Joined: Nov 26, 2006
Last Visited: Nov 29, 2008
Location: In a dark tunnel
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Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 4:39 pm
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| Quote: |
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/06/13/2273961.htm
Something that us tassie gunzels didn't think of. Another "potential" provider could be also Chas Kelly's Searoad Transport.
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Tasports announcement is interesting. However, I would consider their potential role to be more inclined towards managing the network, as opposed to operating on it. Managing infrastructure is something they have experience in. Running trains, they dont. However, they might be looking at getting a start in the operation field. Again, it would be counter to the 'open access' principles for Tasports to manage AND operate. It should be one or the other - based on their background, preferably the former.
As for Chas Kelly, his main interest would be to see the rail system shut down.
Cheers,
SZ
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brod13
Chief Train Controller
Joined: Aug 31, 2006
Last Visited: Nov 30, 2008
Location: Norske Skog, Tasmania
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Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 5:55 pm
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| Z1NorthernProgress2110 wrote: | http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/06/13/2273961.htm
Something that us tassie gunzels didn't think of. Another "potential" provider could be also Chas Kelly's Searoad Transport. |
Very off topic, but, where is that photo taken and is that an EE i see?
Regards, Brodie
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austrain
Train Controller
Joined: Dec 17, 2006
Last Visited: Nov 24, 2008
Location: NSW
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Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 6:34 pm
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at hobart brodie and yes an EE van
Agree Tasports may be a good option to manage the network, with an established rail operator to run trains.
No chas kelly either, last thing we need!
QR or Coote would be the go, QRN hopefully. There's only been a couple times since the AN sell off has there been some good managers who have wanted the rail to move forward, sadly they left pretty much when ED was booted out. Since then its been the same old management team with each new owner and look how things have turned out. A clean out is needed to move any new business forward. Customers will not put up with the same s#^t from management in the future.[/u]
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derwentparkjunc
Locomotive Fireman
Joined: Sep 03, 2006
Last Visited: Nov 20, 2008
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Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 7:08 pm
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Yes, the picture in the ABC news story is at the end of the line in Hobart, viewed from the direction of the former Hobart railway station (now ABC Hobart headquarters).
Just out of picture to the right of the trees is the historic Engineers Building. Apparently in much earlier years there was a platform for the Macquarie St stop immediately to the right of this track. I recall seeing a photo from the mid 20th Century published in a Tas Rail News maybe 2-3 years back.
Given the likely plans for the current Hobart Railyards and the planned Brighton transport hub, this piece of track has a limited future.
Cheers
DPJ
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