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RTT_Rules
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Jun 23, 2004
Last Visited: Nov 30, 2008
Location: Gladstone Qld
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Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 5:12 am
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| benscaro wrote: | | RTT_Rules wrote: | | Doubt we will see a rebirth TGR and I doubt further it would be succesful if it did. In reality the Tas govt has as much experience and expertise in running a railway as my grandma |
Umm, the Tasmanian government had about a hundred years of running railways in the end . . . not insignificant.
Of course, I don't know your grandma to compare to . . .
I think you might say that by the late 60s the Tasmanian government probably didn't have much will to run the railway any more, but that's a different issue.
In reality, TGR was run to achieve different social and economic aims, not all of which were spelt out, and some of which probably never even came up on the radar of its management anyway.
For a start, it was designed to open up previously inaccessible areas of land.
From the 1920s through to the 40s it was employed to support both heavy industry through the era of hydro-industrialisation, and smaller more widespread industries like farming and forestry, by providing cheap transport.
And it was configured, especially in the post-Depression era, to keep large numbers employed, probably because back in those 'unenlightened' times it was thought that providing low end jobs for people is ultimately cheaper than stopping them committing crimes and paying for other forms of expensive social engineering to remedy the ills that inevitably arise when people are deprived and bored.
So, to judge it according to purely commercial imperatives is wrong in the first place, IMHO. It was more of a social and corporate welfare system on wheels.
Ben |
My point was TGR of old is not going to happen today. So what if they did, dosen't mean in today's climate they will again and even if they wanted, who in the govt knows how to run a railway. The state has not run a railway for 30 years and when they did last run it, they didn't do it very well. The state had to bail one way or another, at the time they dind't have the funds (tax payers money) or the balls to make the huge cuts required to make it viable.
What they did in the pioneer horse and cart days is really irrelevent to today.
Regards
Shane
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benscaro
Deputy Commissioner
Joined: Jan 04, 2005
Last Visited: Nov 30, 2008
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Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:03 am
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| RTT_Rules wrote: | [
My point was TGR of old is not going to happen today. So what if they did, dosen't mean in today's climate they will again and even if they wanted, who in the govt knows how to run a railway. The state has not run a railway for 30 years and when they did last run it, they didn't do it very well. The state had to bail one way or another, at the time they dind't have the funds (tax payers money) or the balls to make the huge cuts required to make it viable.
What they did in the pioneer horse and cart days is really irrelevent to today.
Regards
Shane |
That's a rather different point from your earlier one. Thanks for clarifying.
However . . . it seems commonsense to me that someone who has run something for 100 years would have *some* ability to adapt to changing circumstances and challenges. Whether they have the personnel currently is neither here nor there. They can buy it in and skill it up. Governments administer. They run all sorts of things from power stations to banks to drop in centres for transexual soccer players. That's what they're there for.
In the 1970s, the let out was that Whitlam wanted to take over rail federally, so the state didn't have to make hard decisions. That isn't to say they could not have made those tough choices if there hadn't been another option.
So , no, I wouldn't agree at all that the last days of the TGR showed they couldn't run a railway.
Contrasted with 100 years of government management (for some ofwhich the railway was profitable, by the way) the private sector hasn't exactly covered itself with glory, bailing out twice, accompanied by laughable hissy fits, in a whole big eleven years.
I am sure if the state government wanted to, they could buy in the necessary expertise and do no worse, and quite likely better. Let's see if they want to, I guess.
Cheers
Ben
President, Bring Back Rail to Yinkanie Committee
Hmmm . . . why isn't there an emoticon for schadenfreude ?
1447: The Year China Put a Knight Templar on Mars.
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austrain
Train Controller
Joined: Dec 17, 2006
Last Visited: Nov 24, 2008
Location: NSW
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Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:44 am
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| Quote: | | The number of potential suitors dwindled yesterday with Queensland Rail and TasPorts ruling out any purchase plans. |
Bad news if indeed true (still wouldn't rule them out - not many companies come out & say they are interested) QR would have been the best option for rollingstock upgrades.
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12CSVT
Chief Train Controller
Joined: Nov 26, 2006
Last Visited: Nov 29, 2008
Location: In a dark tunnel
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Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:03 pm
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If you are going to slag someone off make sure you get your facts right first before posting.
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Did I not say......
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(I stand to be corrected)
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So I have been.
SZ
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austrain
Train Controller
Joined: Dec 17, 2006
Last Visited: Nov 24, 2008
Location: NSW
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Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 5:18 pm
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My mate from WA seems to think that Coote will pick up the tas operations. May see our locos back in the green & gold.
http://images.fotopic.net/y6nqn8.jpg
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Z1NorthernProgress2110
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Nov 30, 2004
Last Visited: Dec 1, 2008
Location: Burnie, Tasmania
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Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 5:55 pm
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Hmm, to much green agghhhhhh. Be alright on the Y/Z/ZA/ZB locos, may look different on the ZP/MKA and ZR locos. Look like crap on the Ds and DQs.
If and thats a big IF, Coote do pic up the tassie operations, i hope they get traffic back and make less trucks on the road.
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rwj_95
Train Controller
Joined: Jan 12, 2008
Last Visited: Dec 1, 2008
Location: At the computer
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Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:18 pm
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Its a real pity that QR/ARG has rulled out buying the Tazzie rail network. I agree with austrain that QR would be the best option for rollingstock upgrades.
Also, just ask yourself what other operator in Australia can put a narrow gauge locomotive onto a low-loader or ship and sent it down to Tazzie ready to be used when it arrives? Am I correct in saying that there are none?
The trouble with trouble is that it starts with fun...  |
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4705-44201NB
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Jun 18, 2004
Last Visited: Dec 1, 2008
Location: Newcastle
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Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:59 am
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Coote Industrial & G&WA both have narrow gauge locos
Although I heard a "rumour" that the New Zealand government were looking at the tassie system!?!
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Z1NorthernProgress2110
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Nov 30, 2004
Last Visited: Dec 1, 2008
Location: Burnie, Tasmania
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Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:13 am
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Ahhh, they would send over more second hand GM junk, like the DQs.
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574M
White Guru
Joined: Mar 15, 2006
Last Visited: Nov 28, 2008
Location: Shepparton
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Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:24 am
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| 4705-44201NB wrote: | Coote Industrial & G&WA both have narrow gauge locos
Although I heard a "rumour" that the New Zealand government were looking at the tassie system!?! |
I thought the New Zealand government had their hands full buying back the passenger service?
I dunno about NZ Govt purchases of transport in Australia. 
Many of us have not forgotten what happened with Ansett.
(We paid an excess on our plane tickets for a long, long time to pick that one up for the NZ government)
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austrain
Train Controller
Joined: Dec 17, 2006
Last Visited: Nov 24, 2008
Location: NSW
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Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:49 pm
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| Quote: | Although I heard a "rumour" that the New Zealand government were looking at the tassie system!?!
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Think someone may be telling porkies! Cant imagine NZ taxpayers would be to happy with them buying an o/s operation that would give little return. They have enough problems with there own system to sort out.
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ZC11
Junior Train Controller
Joined: Apr 23, 2006
Last Visited: Nov 20, 2008
Location: Found inside a locomotive cab at times.
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Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:00 am
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You are onto it ; Dishonest sh*t bag Paul Little has taken just short of a billion dollars from the New Zealand tax payer so I dont think the NZ government would want another very run down railway and im positive no one in NZ would want to give Paul Little another cent.
Fair to say hes not welcome here for a holiday.
I see Toll now want to buy Freight Link ; So they will get that and run it into the ground then cry that the are not making any money so ask for state government handouts ; Take the handouts then after a few months from that ; say they are still not making money so they will close the show down if no one gives them what they want.
The NZ government has now said the electric locomotives on the north island main trunk are now safe and will be overhauled.
Toll wanted to scrap them as they did not want to pay the money to overhaul them. They worked out they would make a bit of money if they scrapped them. Thats the type of company Toll is ; Just a rip off !
Was Tolls Pacific National the ones who sold the 85 & 86 class electric locomotives in NSW ? Has anyone said it was now a very big mistake because of the price of fuel ?
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DQ2004
Assistant Commissioner
Joined: Oct 11, 2005
Last Visited: Nov 30, 2008
Location: Hobart -where the rain has lumps in it
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Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:08 pm
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| ZC11 wrote: |
Was Tolls Pacific National the ones who sold the 85 & 86 class electric locomotives in NSW ? Has anyone said it was now a very big mistake because of the price of fuel ? |
They certainly were, although as part of the deal of purchasing FreightCorp & National Rail they HAD to sell off a large amount of locos (can't remember how many).
The thing was that the way CityRail charged PN for using the overhead network (and I don't know the details) meant that it wasn't economical to use electric locos, so it's not really PN's fault in this case, but rather government charging and policy.
Which was utter stupidity, but that's just my opinion...
Many regards,
Toby
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rwj_95
Train Controller
Joined: Jan 12, 2008
Last Visited: Dec 1, 2008
Location: At the computer
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Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:20 pm
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| 4705-44201NB wrote: | | Coote Industrial & G&WA both have narrow gauge locos |
Yes, Coote Industrial and GWA have narrow guage locos, but if they sent some down to Tazzie do they have enough to replace them after they leave?
The trouble with trouble is that it starts with fun... |
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benscaro
Deputy Commissioner
Joined: Jan 04, 2005
Last Visited: Nov 30, 2008
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Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 8:31 pm
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| DQ2004 wrote: | | ZC11 wrote: |
Was Tolls Pacific National the ones who sold the 85 & 86 class electric locomotives in NSW ? Has anyone said it was now a very big mistake because of the price of fuel ? |
They certainly were, although as part of the deal of purchasing FreightCorp & National Rail they HAD to sell off a large amount of locos (can't remember how many).
The thing was that the way CityRail charged PN for using the overhead network (and I don't know the details) meant that it wasn't economical to use electric locos, so it's not really PN's fault in this case, but rather government charging and policy.
Which was utter stupidity, but that's just my opinion...
Many regards,
Toby |
I think the deal was that PN had to sell a certain number of locos. This was I believe in order to assist competitors and so avoid an anti-competitive situation ?
I suspect either the NSW government or the ACCC, using that combination of strategic thinking and intellectual rigour which is fast turning Sydney into Australia's third most important city, didn't put into place sufficiently tight guidelines in order to require PN to dispose of locos that competitors could use.
So PN did what any self interested operator would do in that situation - sold off locos that their competitors had a snowflake's chance in hell of being able to use . . . ie the electrics, which are operationally limited to the greater Sydney area and priced out by Cityrail.
The unfolding of this scenario is what I would call an unbelievably short-term mindset given what has elapsed re the price of oil . . . but that's New South Wales thinking for you . . . I mean, in those dim, dark days of the late 1990s we all thought oil would last forever, didn't we ? 
Ben
President, Bring Back Rail to Yinkanie Committee
Hmmm . . . why isn't there an emoticon for schadenfreude ?
1447: The Year China Put a Knight Templar on Mars.
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