The future of NCL electrification (Bris-Rocky)

bulldozed · Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:04 pm

Does anyone here care to speculate on the future of electrified services on the North Coast Line north of Gympie? After the mass relocation of the 3900's to the coalfields, I think it's fair to say that the wires have scarcely been utilized enough. Who's game to suggest that electrified freight will return to this corridor, in what form, and when?

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Johnmc · Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:46 pm

When they dropped NCL electric freight, and brought in the diesel Tilt Train, I would have thought the overhead between Gympie and Gladstone would have been on borrowed time.

Now - with fuel prices rising at a rapid rate - I'm not so sure. The day may come when it will be more cost effective to have electric traction than diesel.

I suspect that the overhead will stay, even if it's only to hedge bets.

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colinw_mk2 · Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:01 pm

Under that scenario, would the RTT provide a more frequent Brisbane - Gympie service?

Also, what about testing of new EDI rollingstock at Maryborough West?

With 2 RTTs a day to Bundy and one to Rocky the O/H may as well stay.

In any case, the economics of diesel vs. electric operation are starting to shift (although still tilted in favour of diesel at this stage).

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Controller · Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:47 pm

Initally when the North Coast Line was planned to be electrified, the reason given then was the cost of diesel vs eletrification although it was widely argued that the only reason was that Joh used it as an excuse to build the powerstation in his electorate instead of Millmerran where the SEA wanted it built.

There has been good come out of the NCL electrification. Many kms of railway were straighted out with the removal of curves which slowed diesel powered trains down. The extension of interurban electric trains north of Brisbane and I'm sure this will increase as expansion of outer northern housing.

As said earlier, with the cost of diesel fuel escalating and there not being any relaxation in sight, I'm sure that electric powered freight trains will return to the NCL.

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beastjim · Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:55 pm

It would be very politically short sighted to dismantle the wires north of Gympie IMO. The economics of keeping them open will only improve as prices of diesel keep on rising and we get more environmentally friendly power sources.

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raymond · Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 5:58 pm

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SM247 · Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 8:33 pm

If anything I would be wondering about the future of sections north of Rockhampton (and whether greater coal line electrification will also be mooted e.g. for the Northern Missing Link and other new links in the existing coal chains). There is very little risk of the existing wires being removed any time soon.

RTT_Rules · Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:57 am

Ok, first warning to all, anyone post its days are numbered be prepared to be flamed! Smile

Recently in QRIG their was a discussion about the old spark freights and something came out by a QR traffic controller that I hadn't heard before. In summary one reason the sparks were canned was the issue getting them through Brisbane at night after the EMU's are asleep with O/H MTCE. Brisbane's wiring is such that there is extremely little redundency for this and all freights head to AR or near by.

Also note QR did not upgrade all 3900's to 3550 standard and there are still some coalies running around with 3 x 3900 in the middle, I would have thought considering how much they are spending on new ones and how much they needed them this would be a done deal.

ATC was dying, now dead I believe so 3900's were limited in that regard, however it has since been replaced with ATP.

QR had a surplus of 2300's, 39's are better in coal, so hence why they got side shifted.

In the end the removal of 39's probably wasn't alot to do with fuel price and actually I strongly believe it had nothing to dow ith fuel price, doesn't make sense to shift them to coal otherwise.

Also 3900's on NCL were usually under worked.

Some comments also in QRIG about 3900's being too powerful on PAX, not a big believer myself in this one. probably more to do with the hand of the driver and how does this compare against a quick start 1720+2300?

The O/H is safe as its needed for the RTT, there are no plans to replace the RTT wth anything else for at least the 3 years than it takes to design and build. The RTT is of no use for just about any other run under the wires, except maybe Gympie and even then you only need 1 for which they already have 16 ICE cars currently under uterlised less than the O/H to Gladstone.

While the RTT to Rocky was struggling against the airlines cheap fares, Bundy is not, so absolute worst case cut back to Bundy, MTCE not an issue, just look at Melbourne, they use a DEL.

As for EDI, still not an issue although less convienent. Didn't QR just buy 3800's from Europe, the home of SG? And weren't the previus EL's made in NSW etc? I'm sure a short section for testing or a DEL to travel to Gympie wouldn't be an issue (Need DEL's to move to test area anyway).

Again fuel has nothing to do with it in the medium term (10-15 years) as the main capital has been spent, the wires are there and I doubt the cost of a new spark to be used under existing wires is more expensive than a cheaper DEL at $US100/barrel.

The big question will be want will happen when QR has to replace the 2300's?

With QRN now running WA NG, potentially 2300's could head west, more coal locos 4100 and 3800's being bought, PNQ buying coal locos, maybe the small number of 3900's left could re-enter the Rocky traffic (note: not all trains to Rocky actually pass Rocky or Gladstone) because thats what they need!

Regards
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DABEAR · Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 7:27 am

colinw_mk2 · Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 10:46 am

3foot6 · Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 11:38 am

I read your post on QRIG, Shane, and thought it really captured the essence of the debate.

You made the point that diesel locomotives will always contribute to global warming but electric locomotives will not primarily because electricity can be generated using environmentally friendly methods such as solar or wind.

I agree completely. Electric Traction has a better long-term outlook than Diesel Traction.

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Expedition Pass · Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:07 pm

3foot6 · Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:18 pm

There must be some form of 2300 Surplus in QLD because QR are sending locomotives to Western Australia.

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RTT_Rules · Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:25 pm

Back in early 2000s when DEL's started to venture into 3900 land, there must have been a surplus of sorts with regional freight contracting, although probably a fair junk of this went via 1720's.

Interesting to see what happens in Tasmania? Maybe more needed.

No didn't know about the 2300 rebuild rebuilds. But the frames are now over 35 years old, how long and how many modes can you do to a loco? And if QR has to refit WA (not sure of loco condition in the west and maybe if QR target Tasrail sale???

Regards
Shane

574M · Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 1:53 pm

My, my.

All those acronyms. Shocked

RTT? DEL? EL? MTCE? ATC? ATP?

I feel like its another country, not Australia.