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GeoffreyHansen
Minister for Railways
Joined: Apr 13, 2004
Last Visited: Dec 1, 2008
Location: Waiting for the next commuter service to Bathurst
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Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 3:18 pm
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| RTT_Rules wrote: |
Option B, run to Bundy only as this is more the practical limit in time and loadings for the RTT in competition with air, This option would also save about 200km of O/H MTCE. Potentially a 3-4 services a day instead of the current 2 weekdays and 1 weekends. If the demand was there (and I'm sure it is), why not build a 3rd set now? Why not rebuild an ICE into TT standards now?
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It would be to increase the frequency of the service to Bundeburg Vline style. Maybe it could be done once the line is duplicated to Nambour.
Bring the 3900s back to Brisbane
Bring Karlsruhe Tramtrains to Australian cities
Extend the proposed Metro to Taylor Square
Extend the Gold Coast line to the Tweed
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raymond
Chief Train Controller
Joined: Sep 05, 2004
Last Visited: Dec 1, 2008
Location: Gladstone
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Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 3:27 pm
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The maintenance depot is still at Gracemere.
That would require a lot empty running for there service.
RAYMOND
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RTT_Rules
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Jun 23, 2004
Last Visited: Nov 30, 2008
Location: Gladstone Qld
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Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 9:24 pm
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| raymond wrote: | The maintenance depot is still at Gracemere.
That would require a lot empty running for there service.
RAYMOND |
Yes, QR is a little unsual in that it has a non-capital city service centre. I partly suspect this is also the reason the RTT and the O/H is not going anywhere and not because the service centre cannot be moved, I'm sure adding the RTT service to Mayne would not be a major issue. But more a political one in closing ther service centre in Rocky down.
QR's big noose that PN doesn't have is that QR is still forced to follow political directives such as populating and spending money in parts of the state for no real commerical reason.
So to close the Gladstone to Bundy O/H or Gympie Nth. You have the political issues of closing 200-400km of tax payer funded overhead that would be seen as "green" for the future even if not used now. You have QR being stuck with a train thats barely 10years old with no where to run, no different to ICE in 1998 really, and you have a regional service centre that would be a shed for nothing with job looses and maybe some capital outlay for BRisbane and you would still need to find an alternative train.
So potentially the cost of maintaining the O/H is actually cheaper than shutting it down and QR/QG don't have any political backlash (although it would be small, short lived and quickly forgotten) and neither govt nor opposition would be in a better position to do this.
Also remember to shut down the O/H, you cannot just turn it off and walk away, while it hangs above the trains it must be maintained and powered, so shutdown would require removal at a huge cost with minimal return in recycling at scrap or reuse.
It short, it isn't going anywhere in the short to medium term.
Last thought, if QR wanted to get rid of either ICE or RTT, I wonder if either would be suitable for the proposed electrification extension in WA to Bunbury?
Regards
Shane
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DABEAR
Junior Train Controller
Joined: Jun 12, 2004
Last Visited: Dec 1, 2008
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Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 8:47 am
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| RTT_Rules wrote: | | So potentially the cost of maintaining the O/H is actually cheaper than shutting it down. |
Think about this, the cost of men, deopts, vehicles, phones, parts, shutting down the track etc...as well as the cost of the electricity itself....Vs the cost of having none of those things. Turning off the electricity alone for that kind of distance would save QR hundreds of thousands of dollars.
They won't turn it off, because it runs their flagship. If anything I think we'll start to see more electrics take the tracks, and given time, more wires strung up.
| RTT_Rules wrote: | | Also remember to shut down the O/H, you cannot just turn it off and walk away, while it hangs above the trains it must be maintained and powered, so shutdown would require removal at a huge cost with minimal return in recycling at scrap or reuse. |
err......No.
Turn it off, earth it, walk away. That way it doesn't need to be maintained. Happened to the Doomben line when they stopped running trains in the 90's.
The scrap market for copper is not bad at the moment. So much so it's worth the time for some people to break in and steal it off our drums to take to the recycler for cash, even though the recycler knows where its come from.
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thetron
Station Master
Joined: Jul 25, 2003
Last Visited: May 11, 2008
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Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:36 am
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[quote="petey3801"]| Quote: |
EDi Rail also do a lot of testing of trains (incl. Electric) on the North Coast Line, and new EMUs from EDi Rail travel to Brisbane under their own power. |
Yes NoS
But cost large amount of money to refill. ETT will use it only when loss of main power
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Colhad
Deputy Commissioner
Joined: Apr 29, 2004
Last Visited: Dec 1, 2008
Location: Watching 2300 class hauled coalies out at Wulkuraka.
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Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 6:38 am
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Just on the ICEs, would QR ever consider replacing the manual doors with auto sliding doors thus making them suitable for use on all lines??
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MelbourneCity
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Jan 22, 2003
Last Visited: Nov 29, 2008
Location: Melbourne
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Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:23 pm
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It would depend on whether they'd want to keep the sets and where the sets would run and how often etc.
I like the suggestion of converting an ICE to TT standard. That would be alot of work and be quite costly. What sort of work would need doing?
- internal refurbishment
- door modifications
New motors? (to achieve higher speeds)
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SM247
Deputy Commissioner
Joined: May 04, 2005
Last Visited: Nov 27, 2008
Location: Carrara, Gold Coast, Queensland
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Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:30 pm
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| Colhad wrote: | | Just on the ICEs, would QR ever consider replacing the manual doors with auto sliding doors thus making them suitable for use on all lines?? |
Very much doubt it. They are getting old and are not the most reliable of sets. If you're going to have to strip out the fittings, the electrics, the bogies, the doors and everything else, you may as well buy a new set.
I am told there are also some issues with the car lengths on curved platforms where the doors are at a bit of a remove from the platform. As they are longer than the usual carriage length on the network, consequently they aren't as well articulated around curves. This is not so much an issue for the NCL with short or otherwise long straight platforms.
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bulldozed
Assistant Commissioner
Joined: Jul 05, 2007
Last Visited: Dec 1, 2008
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Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 7:28 pm
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I guess you never know when it comes to refurbishments... the Poms are still running HST's from the late 70's... the early 80's NSW XPT's have been through the shops a few times...
Ethan's Models
Specializing in Australian N Scale, and model rail-specific contract drafting.
Do you want to see QR 'N Scale' gear? |
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MelbourneCity
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Jan 22, 2003
Last Visited: Nov 29, 2008
Location: Melbourne
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Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 9:58 pm
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Could always sell the ICEs cheap to NZ if they were ever going to electrify to Auckland from Wellington.
Though they'd probably just add to their order from Korea.
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RTT_Rules
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Jun 23, 2004
Last Visited: Nov 30, 2008
Location: Gladstone Qld
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Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 7:14 am
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| DABEAR wrote: |
| RTT_Rules wrote: | | Also remember to shut down the O/H, you cannot just turn it off and walk away, while it hangs above the trains it must be maintained and powered, so shutdown would require removal at a huge cost with minimal return in recycling at scrap or reuse. |
err......No.
Turn it off, earth it, walk away. That way it doesn't need to be maintained. Happened to the Doomben line when they stopped running trains in the 90's.
The scrap market for copper is not bad at the moment. So much so it's worth the time for some people to break in and steal it off our drums to take to the recycler for cash, even though the recycler knows where its come from. |
The line from Bungrove to Emerald has been mentioned before that it is still fed with 240VAC so to provide the controller with feed back for the O/H's integrity. Maybe this is different to Doomben line due to length, isolation, higher track speed etc etc. I believe the O/H cannot be curently used by trains as some of the transformers have been removed, however a section was replaced following a bridge repair, photos were posted by who ever over 1 or 2 ago.
Asw I said before, as anyone got an idea on how many people are actually involved maintaining the O/H from Parana to Gympie Nth? Apart from routine checks for alignment done with the track machine, I'm still struggling to see that this line does cost more than a few direct salaries and some equipment outside breakdowns.
Also interested to know how much if any copper is actually used. Most HV lines are usually made I think with steel core for strength and aluminium wrapping for conductivity/low resistance. I think Mic J reported once that since the 3900's had gone, the RTT's carbon contacts wear very fast due to corrision on the O/H, assume from dew at night and from what I learnt in Vancouver from trolley buses, wet lines wear the carbon much faster.
Regards
Shane
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bulldozed
Assistant Commissioner
Joined: Jul 05, 2007
Last Visited: Dec 1, 2008
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Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 7:47 am
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My grandad was involved in the initial electrification of the perth suburban network (as with the QR one), and he was given a little plinth-mounted piece of the original overhead wire used - 100% copper. How times change!
Ethan's Models
Specializing in Australian N Scale, and model rail-specific contract drafting.
Do you want to see QR 'N Scale' gear? |
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RTT_Rules
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Jun 23, 2004
Last Visited: Nov 30, 2008
Location: Gladstone Qld
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Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 6:03 pm
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| bulldozed wrote: | | My grandad was involved in the initial electrification of the perth suburban network (as with the QR one), and he was given a little plinth-mounted piece of the original overhead wire used - 100% copper. How times change! |
Ok, so it is made out of copper or is this just the contact wire?I know HV lines used to be copper but I was told this changed years ago. The former HV line across Tas to Queenstown was still standing in the 90's, but disconnected and with a gap due to a new lake/dam, someone stole 7km of each phase for the copper, but the news report said at the time, they must have be an inside job, as newer HV cables are not the same.
Thanks for that Bulldozed
Shane
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DABEAR
Junior Train Controller
Joined: Jun 12, 2004
Last Visited: Dec 1, 2008
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Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 7:41 pm
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| RTT_Rules wrote: | | The line from Bungrove to Emerald has been mentioned before that it is still fed with 240VAC so to provide the controller with feed back for the O/H's integrity. Maybe this is different to Doomben line due to length, isolation, higher track speed etc etc. I believe the O/H cannot be curently used by trains as some of the transformers have been removed, however a section was replaced following a bridge repair, photos were posted by who ever over 1 or 2 ago. |
This 240 volt you talk about is interesting. I might have to find out more.
As I'm not from this area, what is the distance from Bungrove to Emerald?
| RTT_Rules wrote: | | Also interested to know how much if any copper is actually used. |
Depends on what system you are in. Brisbane Surburban uses ally catanery copper contact, whereas the other two systems are both copper.
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RTT_Rules
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Jun 23, 2004
Last Visited: Nov 30, 2008
Location: Gladstone Qld
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Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 5:03 am
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| DABEAR wrote: | | RTT_Rules wrote: | | The line from Bungrove to Emerald has been mentioned before that it is still fed with 240VAC so to provide the controller with feed back for the O/H's integrity. Maybe this is different to Doomben line due to length, isolation, higher track speed etc etc. I believe the O/H cannot be curently used by trains as some of the transformers have been removed, however a section was replaced following a bridge repair, photos were posted by who ever over 1 or 2 ago. |
This 240 volt you talk about is interesting. I might have to find out more.
As I'm not from this area, what is the distance from Bungrove to Emerald?
| RTT_Rules wrote: | | Also interested to know how much if any copper is actually used. |
Depends on what system you are in. Brisbane Surburban uses ally catanery copper contact, whereas the other two systems are both copper. |
About 60-65km, its 74km to Blackwater, so take off a little bit.
I heard they used more copper on the Rosewood extension to save on an extra sub station (which has since been built), maybe this was only in the feeder wire?
If they are copper, you'd want to keep some juice in them these days. NCL can be very quiet for a few hours at a time in some very remote areas.
Regards
Shane
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