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Sydney_Gunzel
Assistant Commissioner
Joined: Jun 03, 2008
Last Visited: Dec 1, 2008
Location: Sydney
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Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 12:35 pm
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| tranzitjim wrote: | Awnser to .... Why where they there in the first place?
Awnser was, they where purchased by a rail operator by the name of 'Northern Rivers Railroad' or NRR.
NRR where based around that area, so naturally they chose to drag all their purchases up to where they where based.
NRR was sold to QRN, and was the first venture of QR outside of Queensland. |
Not quite, Jim. NRR was sold to QRN who used their bogey's in the creation of the 423 class (modified QR 15** diesels with standard gauge bogeys?), used on Short North coal haulage.
And it's answer, Jim.
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bulldozed
Assistant Commissioner
Joined: Jul 05, 2007
Last Visited: Dec 1, 2008
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Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 12:55 pm
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| a6et wrote: | | Thus if the green engines were part of this operation & it continued the same principle would aplly. So, what I am saying is simply this, I constantly saw a green 49class at Clyde, & a 73 in Sydney Yard, so were there only 2? |
There was an X*** shunter in the same colours, might've been X101?
Ethan's Models
Specializing in Australian N Scale, and model rail-specific contract drafting.
Do you want to see QR 'N Scale' gear? |
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Chufffa
Station Staff
Joined: Jun 03, 2008
Last Visited: Dec 1, 2008
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Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:09 pm
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Hi
4901 should be saved as its class leader and has candy green paint, sad to see it in the condition its in.
Chears Neil
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SMR30
Minister for Railways
Joined: Jul 20, 2004
Last Visited: Dec 1, 2008
Location: Not close enough to the Main Northern Line where i live :(
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Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 3:28 am
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| Quote: | Hi
4901 should be saved as its class leader and has candy green paint, sad to see it in the condition its in.
Chears Neil |
I agree with you there I mean scrapping this locos would just be a waste, and the class leader should be saved, but then you got to wounder who could preserve it. Perhaps LVR or ARHS ACT Division. who knows. 3801 Limted have 4918, NSWRTM 4916 so they are right with a 49 class.
Or also perhaps get a job with Cootes would go well with 4908. Hope 4901 dosen't just become a memory and that all we have left of it is photos, videos, Trainorama and MSTS Models.
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Kav442s5
Chief Train Controller
Joined: Jan 01, 2006
Last Visited: Nov 23, 2008
Location: Near the 160km peg on the Short North, at the computer playing keyboard warriors.
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Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 7:32 am
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It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if CFCLA or Cootes buy all four of them. Of course, preservation groups may buy one or more, but with the state they are in, I'd imagine one of the cashed up commercial operators would get them and overhaul/rebuild them. 4912 clearly still has its 567 motor in it, and I'd imagine that the other 3 are basically complete except obviously for bogies. Branchline units are very versatile in that they can go anywhere, and are also suited to use on works trains. Scrapping them would be a waste when they most likely all have good frames and the missing parts are readily available from around the world.
It's creepy crawly season, so stop those creepys from crawling, particularly if its a TERMITE!
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TW10
Station Master
Joined: Sep 06, 2007
Last Visited: Nov 24, 2008
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Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:24 am
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| a6et wrote: | From my time as a chargeman at Delec, pre the green diesels, but non the less, all of the locomotives were in a pool, & were on diagram rosters that began at the start of the cycle & then finished at the end, any locomotive could be swapped in or out of that roster. When foriegn depot engines were used, they were taken out as soon as a local one was sourced.
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When removed from Parkes to Delec, the 49's were used mostly on metro trip trains and Bombo ballasts with the occasional "excursion".
Whilst the 48's roamed at will, the 49's didn't. Perhaps maintenance and crew knowledge were a factor.
| a6et wrote: |
Thus if the green engines were part of this operation & it continued the same principle would aplly. So, what I am saying is simply this, I constantly saw a green 49class at Clyde, & a 73 in Sydney Yard, so were there only 2?
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Put even more simply there were THREE green 49ers - 01, 02 & 05. All seen regularly at Flemo Markets, Clyde and to from Enfield.
I hope that present and future "historians" do not quote Railpage Australia™ as a source without substantial checking. This is not necessarily directed at a6et but a general comment.
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ShowMeTheMoney
Banned
Joined: Jul 31, 2006
Last Visited: Nov 26, 2008
Location: Banned
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Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:38 am
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From what I recall, from quite a few years before the end, Delec was a GM specialist Maintenance center, so I think it was a logistical move to have the 49s in Sydney. I know mundane repair work was done on everything there, but major work on Alcos was done elsewhere.
In the later years, I only ever saw GM engines sitting next to 5 Bay in Delec shed.
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a6et
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Aug 13, 2006
Last Visited: Dec 2, 2008
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Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:17 pm
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| Quote: | TW10 wrote:
When removed from Parkes to Delec, the 49's were used mostly on metro trip trains and Bombo ballasts with the occasional "excursion".
Whilst the 48's roamed at will, the 49's didn't. Perhaps maintenance and crew knowledge were a factor. |
That is what I was saying, & it was after my time there & on the job. My sightings were after I had finished up.
If they were on the Bombo working then that would have meant, Thiroul & Port Kembla crews being qualified for them, which in turn. meant they could go in the main pool/roster program without any problems.
I would not have thought they would go on the Main South unless within the Delec availability. Bear in mind that there would have been crews from many depots qualified for them owing to Transfers etc, & as Cardif was the main overhauling place for them, many BMD crews would have been as well.
| Quote: | | Put even more simply there were THREE green 49ers - 01, 02 & 05. All seen regularly at Flemo Markets, Clyde and to from Enfield. |
My exact point
| Quote: | | I hope that present and future "historians" do not quote Railpage Australia™™ as a source without substantial checking. This is not necessarily directed at a6et but a general comment |
I personally do not have any problems with that. Whilst I can quote from my experiences, they are mine only, & others would have different experiences in the same area.
| ShowMeTheMoney wrote: | From what I recall, from quite a few years before the end, Delec was a GM specialist Maintenance center, so I think it was a logistical move to have the 49s in Sydney. I know mundane repair work was done on everything there, but major work on Alcos was done elsewhere.
In the later years, I only ever saw GM engines sitting next to 5 Bay in Delec shed. |
The idea of sending the 421class to the west (Bathurst) was for that particular reason to try & centralise where spares were kept. Of course it was dumb owing to the 42cl not being part of the movement, & could not replace the Alco's in the western division.
The transfer to Delec at the end of the day made sense in that regard especially as the 81's came out & were the predominate main line engine for a while.[/quote]
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Junction box
Chief Train Controller
Joined: Nov 18, 2005
Last Visited: Nov 29, 2008
Location: newy
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Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:24 pm
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It was also about the same time the 73 class were deemed kaput. I remember 49s on metrop trips on everything from dropping sleeper trucks at Bankstown goods sdg to shunting Wolli Creek sand and gravel sdg. Lots of noise. 
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Electra
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Jun 06, 2004
Last Visited: Aug 18, 2008
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Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 6:07 am
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| Bwana wrote: | | Green livery was for 125th anniversary wasn't it? Same as 4201. From memory 4001 and a 48 (forget which) got it too. |
4836
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TW10
Station Master
Joined: Sep 06, 2007
Last Visited: Nov 24, 2008
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Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:29 am
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| a6et wrote: | | Quote: | TW10 wrote:
Put even more simply there were THREE green 49ers - 01, 02 & 05. All seen regularly at Flemo Markets, Clyde and to from Enfield. |
My exact point
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Your exact point ? Who originally wrote "I constantly saw a green 49class at Clyde, & a 73 in Sydney Yard, so were there only 2?"?
And perhaps, statements of "fact" such as "4201 & 4836 were painted in those colours for the Australian Bi-Centenary, as green & gold are suppossed to be the Australian colours as represented by the green & gold of the wattle tree our national flower/tree. " should be stated as such.
It's not worth caring about this topic any more.
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Aussielgb
Station Staff
Joined: Jul 13, 2005
Last Visited: Aug 26, 2008
Location: Gulmarrad Station
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Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:31 am
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Hi All
The 49's were painted yellow as part of the sector allowcation.
However there was a more practical reason as to why they were painted green.
When I was transfered from Carriage Works when it closed to Delec one of my first jobs at Delec was on 4905. 4901 and 4902 were almost completed. A fairly simple modification caused a whole lot of problems.
When the 49's came to Sydney the crews refused to work them as fdor short shunting etc they were always climbing up and down the steps at the ends. If you have a look at early photo's, pre late 80's you will see the electrical MU recepticles are inboard of the buffer beam.
The crews did not like this so they were relocated outboard of the buffer beams under the handrails.
When this modification was first done it was moved straight out to the end of the walkway and rewired accordingly.
However when the 2 units 4901 4905 canme together the MU couplings fouled each other. When another 49 was put with them same problem.
By the time this was identified 4905 was also complete.
The 3 were put aside for a while until one day they emerged from the paintshop in green and gold.
I came in on afternoon shift one day and saw all for units finished painted sitting outside the shed 4901-2, 7344 and X101.
The remainder of the 49 fleet had the MU jumper couplings off set to allow coupling together.
So the reason behind the 3 frogs was that in their early life in Sydney they could not be coupled to any of their class mates.
Greg.
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ShowMeTheMoney
Banned
Joined: Jul 31, 2006
Last Visited: Nov 26, 2008
Location: Banned
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Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:17 am
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That makes sense Greg. Thanks!
It's a pity the new colour scheme was not so obvious to the Loco allocation Controllers (CMPC) in their office in Cental.
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a6et
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Aug 13, 2006
Last Visited: Dec 2, 2008
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Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:28 am
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[quote="TW10"]| a6et wrote: | | Quote: | TW10 wrote:
Put even more simply there were THREE green 49ers - 01, 02 & 05. All seen regularly at Flemo Markets, Clyde and to from Enfield. |
My exact point
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| Quote: | | Your exact point ? Who originally wrote "I constantly saw a green 49class at Clyde, & a 73 in Sydney Yard, so were there only 2?"? |
So what is wrong with that statement? I constantly saw green 49class at Clyde. Sorry but I constantly saw green 49class in the up yard shunting. & that is a fact no different to what you said, & as there were 3 of them it was a possible reason for them being there, no different to them be regularly seen at Flemo Markets, Clyde (note same place I saw them), & to & from Enfield.
| Quote: | | And perhaps, statements of "fact" such as "4201 & 4836 were painted in those colours for the Australian Bi-Centenary, as green & gold are suppossed to be the Australian colours as represented by the green & gold of the wattle tree our national flower/tree. " should be stated as such. |
Again, I was reffering to those two engines being painted in the particular liveries they were at that time, as confirmation from another persons post, who said about 4201, & a 48cl. I confirmed that & gave the 48cl number. I guess as I am not a professor of linguistics as you seem to be, I am sorry for misleading you & others.
| Quote: |
It's not worth caring about this topic any more. |
Well what was the stupid point of you raising the points? But I totally agree with you on that aspect, especially yours.
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a6et
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Aug 13, 2006
Last Visited: Dec 2, 2008
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Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:42 am
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| Aussielgb wrote: | Hi All
The 49's were painted yellow as part of the sector allowcation.
However there was a more practical reason as to why they were painted green.
When I was transfered from Carriage Works when it closed to Delec one of my first jobs at Delec was on 4905. 4901 and 4902 were almost completed. A fairly simple modification caused a whole lot of problems.
When the 49's came to Sydney the crews refused to work them as fdor short shunting etc they were always climbing up and down the steps at the ends. If you have a look at early photo's, pre late 80's you will see the electrical MU recepticles are inboard of the buffer beam.
The crews did not like this so they were relocated outboard of the buffer beams under the handrails.
When this modification was first done it was moved straight out to the end of the walkway and rewired accordingly.
However when the 2 units 4901 4905 canme together the MU couplings fouled each other. When another 49 was put with them same problem.
By the time this was identified 4905 was also complete.
The 3 were put aside for a while until one day they emerged from the paintshop in green and gold.
I came in on afternoon shift one day and saw all for units finished painted sitting outside the shed 4901-2, 7344 and X101.
The remainder of the 49 fleet had the MU jumper couplings off set to allow coupling together.
So the reason behind the 3 frogs was that in their early life in Sydney they could not be coupled to any of their class mates.
Greg. |
Greg
I have just checked my early slides showing 4901 both long & short ends, as well as 4911 on the west in 1964. I then checked them aaginst a photo of 4857 at Watermark in 1969, & the only thing that I can pick up is that the jumper recepticlse are minutely back from the leadin edges of the walk round footplate at each end.
The hand rail also had a gap to walk across although a detachable chain was fitted in the void the same as on the 48cl & similiar styles. I note that the 45 & 48 classes did have the recepticles on the edges of the fooplate.
From my time of working on the 49cl there did not appear to be any problems with access, in fact the 45cl was the worst with narrow front footplates. So its a bit surprising to me that after working in so many areas of the state that this would have cropped up then.
However, if there were mods done as you suggest then it makes sense.
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