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Somebody in the WWW
Banned
Joined: Oct 08, 2004
Last Visited: Jun 13, 2010
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| Somebody in the WWW |
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Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 3:21 pm
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The nearest stop on route 57 to Highpoint is a fair distance away and is a decent walk up a hill and through the carpark (very pedestrian unfriendly) if you want to get to the shops.
Trams are not suitable as a trunk service from middle suburbs to the CBD - for example, in this instance it takes 50 minutes from West Maribyrnong to the CBD.
Trams have their place for shorter, local trips (say Ascot Vale to Highpoint in this instance), while a heavy rail service would be more suitable for longer trips say from Maribyrnong or Avondale Heights to the CBD.
As I said several posts above, the main users of a heavy rail service would be locals - not shoppers. ZH836301 is on the money with his comment - better tram and bus services linking it to other areas (ie Western Suburbs) would bring in far more shoppers.
| dad2natalie wrote: | | What's wrong with making the '82 a through running cervice to Melbourne CBD? |
And what exactly would the point of that be? Not everything needs to be centered around the CBD - and it would remove a major destination (Moonee Ponds) from that route, which exists purely for suburban trips.
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wongm
GEEWONG
Joined: May 26, 2005
Last Visited: Jul 29, 2010
Location: Geelong, Victoria
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| wongm |
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Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:04 pm
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Wouldn't it make more sense to reroute the 82 tram though the shopping centre carpark right up the front door, with reserved track all the way, and a bus interchange to boot?
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Mel
Deputy Commissioner
Joined: Feb 26, 2004
Last Visited: Jul 30, 2010
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Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:05 pm
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The 57 From Highpoint is not how you get to the city from there. You take the 82 to footscray then train. It saves you 25 minutes. The 57 takes nearly an hour from Highpoint to Elizabeth street.
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route14
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Dec 28, 2006
Last Visited: Jul 26, 2010
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Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:19 pm
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I mentioned route 57 to outrule the idea of re-routing route 82 to City. The optimal way of taking route 82 to Footscray station to get a train to City still means there is no need to re-route route 82 to City.
A true friend will see you through when others see that you are through.
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574M
White Guru
Joined: Mar 15, 2006
Last Visited: Jul 30, 2010
Location: Shepparton
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| 574M |
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Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:50 pm
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| Somebody in the WWW wrote: | | The nearest stop on route 57 to Highpoint is a fair distance away and is a decent walk up a hill and through the carpark (very pedestrian unfriendly) if you want to get to the shops. |
Yes, I have walked it. So what? Walking is healthy.
| Somebody in the WWW wrote: |
Trams are not suitable as a trunk service from middle suburbs to the CBD - for example, in this instance it takes 50 minutes from West Maribyrnong to the CBD. |
Would you say that to someone who lives nearby the South Wantirna route?
| Somebody in the WWW wrote: |
Trams have their place for shorter, local trips (say Ascot Vale to Highpoint in this instance), while a heavy rail service would be more suitable for longer trips say from Maribyrnong or Avondale Heights to the CBD. |
So you would have us all live off Chapel St and catch the train at East Richmond, South Yarra or Winsdor to get to the City?
| dad2natalie wrote: | | What's wrong with making the '82 a through running cervice to Melbourne CBD? |
Nothing wrong with that idea, mick.
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Somebody in the WWW
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| Somebody in the WWW |
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Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:54 pm
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| 574M wrote: | | Yes, I have walked it. So what? Walking is healthy. |
Not going to get people out of their cars with that attitude.
| 574M wrote: | | Would you say that to someone who lives nearby the South Wantirna route? |
Is that something you dreamed up?
| 574M wrote: | | So you would have us all live off Chapel St and catch the train at East Richmond, South Yarra or Winsdor to get to the City? |
What?
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Mickelaar
The Ghost of George Stephenson
Joined: Jul 26, 2004
Last Visited: Jul 20, 2010
Location: Attending
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mjja
Sir Nigel Gresley
Joined: Jan 13, 2003
Last Visited: May 23, 2010
Location: Mount Waverley, Melbourne
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| mjja |
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Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:21 pm
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| Edith wrote: | | I live in Brunswick and there are very few homemaker stores here. I have to go to Highpoint or Northlands for such goods. Both are hard to reach by public transport. Highpoint is marginally easier - bus and #82 tram or two trains and #82 tram. I quite like the #82 actually as it moves well in some of its sections. I do not like the Maribyrnong Road part as traffic does not like stopping to let people on/off the tram. |
When you say it moves quite well, does that mean it's comparable with car travel, or just faster than on-street trams? I'm thinking of marketable opportunities here...
| Edith wrote: | | To get to the City from Maribyrnong by PT is a slow process on the #57 tram. It might be quicker by #82 and train from Footscray. If we add a lot of new residents to the mix we need to get the PT right before we clog up the roads with cars. |
Are the slow sections two lanes or three? It should be acceptable to put caterpillar barriers downto give the trams a free run if there's three lanes, but reducing from two lanes to one is a bit difficult (politically, not physically!).
| Edith wrote: | | In this area we have two significant Activity Centres and they are quite different in there PT access - Footscray Station and Highpoint. I really hate buses and it is interesting to see how infrequent the ones at Highpoint are. Sure they have lot of choice of destinations, but they are not very frequent. A bit like Northland and Chadstone, too. |
True - although Chaddy has so many routes from Oakleigh that they combine to make a reasonably passable service.
What we really need of course is the GoZones they have in Adelaide - where a whole lot of bus routes have their timetables coordinated so there's a high frequency clockfaced service over the sections they all cover, but it doesn't cost them any extra money because each route is still running at the same frequency.
Happy Gunzelling and remember, "Go by rail!"
Michael Angelico
President, Smart Passengers Inc
(My opinions are my own unless specifically stated.)
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Bobman
Station Staff
Joined: Jun 21, 2008
Last Visited: Jun 17, 2010
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Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:45 pm
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[quote=574M]That's what I thought. You will never get a rail link built where there is an existing PT link via trams.[/quote]
What was the justification for the 109 tram extension, if Box Hill was already served well by the Lilydale/Belgrave lines?
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Riccardo
Minister for Railways
Joined: Aug 20, 2003
Last Visited: Aug 31, 2009
Location: Gone. Don't bother PMing here.
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Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:43 pm
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| mjja wrote: | True - although Chaddy has so many routes from Oakleigh that they combine to make a reasonably passable service.
What we really need of course is the GoZones they have in Adelaide - where a whole lot of bus routes have their timetables coordinated so there's a high frequency clockfaced service over the sections they all cover, but it doesn't cost them any extra money because each route is still running at the same frequency. |
And what is actually on the ground? (time for meej to check Riccardo's blog for some training tracks)
There's a small sign indicating which buses go to Chaddy, but no other PID to suggest how to get there, the frequency, when the services start and stop and where to wait for the buses. there is the so-called Smart Bus electronic timetabling but this gives the misleading impression that these services are better than the others, when they aren't.
Standing at FSS, there is no indication how to get to Chadstone.
rather than a simple map like so
FSS==============Oak============Dandy
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.....................................Chaddy...............................
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wongm
GEEWONG
Joined: May 26, 2005
Last Visited: Jul 29, 2010
Location: Geelong, Victoria
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| wongm |
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Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:52 pm
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| Bobman wrote: | | 574M wrote: | | That's what I thought. You will never get a rail link built where there is an existing PT link via trams. |
What was the justification for the 109 tram extension, if Box Hill was already served well by the Lilydale/Belgrave lines? |
Servicing people who live in Kew? Trying to capture traffic at the other end of the line, rather than trams being full in the city and empty in the suburbs?
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Edith
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Nov 11, 2004
Last Visited: Jul 27, 2010
Location: Line 1 from Porte de Vincennes bound for Bastille station
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| Edith |
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Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:53 pm
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| mjja wrote: | | Edith wrote: | | I live in Brunswick and there are very few homemaker stores here. I have to go to Highpoint or Northlands for such goods. Both are hard to reach by public transport. Highpoint is marginally easier - bus and #82 tram or two trains and #82 tram. I quite like the #82 actually as it moves well in some of its sections. I do not like the Maribyrnong Road part as traffic does not like stopping to let people on/off the tram. |
When you say it moves quite well, does that mean it's comparable with car travel, or just faster than on-street trams? I'm thinking of marketable opportunities here... |
It is as fast as a car in many sections, although it does have to stop sometimes. It tends to get caught in traffic close to the Footscray end.
| mjja wrote: | | Edith wrote: | | To get to the City from Maribyrnong by PT is a slow process on the #57 tram. It might be quicker by #82 and train from Footscray. If we add a lot of new residents to the mix we need to get the PT right before we clog up the roads with cars. |
Are the slow sections two lanes or three? It should be acceptable to put caterpillar barriers downto give the trams a free run if there's three lanes, but reducing from two lanes to one is a bit difficult (politically, not physically!). |
Slow sections are mainly around shopping centres with cars moving into and out of parking spaces. Mostly it is about the length of the journey by #57. Train from Footscray is much faster and the #82 is mostly quick.
| mjja wrote: | | Edith wrote: | | In this area we have two significant Activity Centres and they are quite different in there PT access - Footscray Station and Highpoint. I really hate buses and it is interesting to see how infrequent the ones at Highpoint are. Sure they have lot of choice of destinations, but they are not very frequent. A bit like Northland and Chadstone, too. |
True - although Chaddy has so many routes from Oakleigh that they combine to make a reasonably passable service.
What we really need of course is the GoZones they have in Adelaide - where a whole lot of bus routes have their timetables coordinated so there's a high frequency clockfaced service over the sections they all cover, but it doesn't cost them any extra money because each route is still running at the same frequency. |
I agree that Chaddy has many routes, but it does depend on whether you want to take a direct bus or change to a train somewhere. GoZones are a good idea.
Dreams are not something to wait for
They are something to work for
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Somebody in the WWW
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MelbourneCity
Chief Commissioner
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Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:28 pm
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| dad2natalie wrote: | Oscar, not everyone lives in Footscray, Maribyrnong or Moonee Ponds. Runnung the service to the CBD provides two good points A) People form the other side of Melbourne have the direct and quicker opportunity of visiting one of the biggest and best shopping malls in Victoria, whilst increasing service from the Mooney Ponds area to Melbourne CBD. For not much extra cost.
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Yes but, people on the "other side" of the city have access to the same shops much closer - they're not going to go the extra distance for something they can go more or less locally.
Chadstone, Highpoint, Southland, Northland, Eastland, Knox City, Dandenong, Doncaster, Fountain Gate etc all have the same shops selling exactly the same things at the same price.
The only one that people will travel to is Chadstone as it has some "upmarket" designer stores... but soon Doncaster will have them + a few more.
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Somebody in the WWW
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