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melbtrip
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Mar 02, 2004
Last Visited: Dec 2, 2008
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Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:56 pm
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from the sunbury leader
Sunbury's rail parking push
Caitlin Ryan
22Jul08
TRANSPORT authorities and Hume Council delegates are set to meet this week to discuss the expansion of railway commuter car parks for Diggers Rest and Sunbury.
Revealing the meeting, Cr Jack Ogilvie said the discussions could be the first step towards Sir Rod Eddington's $230 million plan to electrify rail to Sunbury.
Cr Ogilvie said Sunbury's transition from country town to suburban transport hub for the region hung on the discussions.
"This will make us a Broadmeadows or a Dandenong; commuter towns at the end of the line," he said.
Cr Ogilvie said Sunbury and Diggers Rest's affordable housing and expansion of rail would cause a housing boom.
Public Transport Minister Lynne Kosky's spokesman Stephen Moynihan said the Government's transport plan for Sunbury won't be released until the end of the year.
Cr Ogilvie told the Leader officials inspected Sunbury station last week.
He called for a thorough community consultation process before any decisions were made, arguing it could split the community.
The Sunbury Residents' Association does not support electrification.
Public Transport Users Association president Daniel Bowen said electrification would make the line more efficient, but he understood why residents opposed it.
"The metro trains do need to be better maintained ... but it doesn't mean electrification shouldn't happen," he said.
V/Line spokesman Daniel Moloney said he was unaware of any decisions to electrify the Sunbury line.
* Want electric rail? Write in or email sunbury@leadernewspapers.com.au
See some people from Sunbury do not want to use the Connex service and they want to keep using the V/Line service.
The best solution is to allow people a choice between a Connex service or A V/Line service.
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funloving266
Station Master
Joined: Mar 19, 2008
Last Visited: Jul 23, 2008
Location: Adelaide, Australia
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Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:16 pm
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| melbtrip wrote: |
Public Transport Minister Lynne Kosky's spokesman Stephen Moynihan said the Government's transport plan for Sunbury won't be released until the end of the year. |
Will this be a plan to organise a committee to look at the project in more details and report back in 10 years time?
Why don;t the people of Sunbury want an electrified service?
Will the new Electrified service include any new stations? Say at the Calder park raceway area?
Sorry, but I have today off as annual leave and am enjoying myself 
--FL
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awsgc24
Minister for Railways
Joined: Feb 18, 2003
Last Visited: Dec 1, 2008
Location: Sydney, NSW
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Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:44 pm
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| funloving266 wrote: |
Why don't the people of Sunbury want an electrified service?
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Electrified railways at 1,500,000mV are like mobile phone towers and give off dangerous electromagnetic radiation, and ozone which cause cows to stop laying and hens to stop giving milk... ... ...
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NR77
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Jun 24, 2005
Last Visited: Nov 30, 2008
Location: Sitting on an NR somewhere......
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Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:57 pm
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| funloving266 wrote: | | melbtrip wrote: |
Public Transport Minister Lynne Kosky's spokesman Stephen Moynihan said the Government's transport plan for Sunbury won't be released until the end of the year. |
Why don;t the people of Sunbury want an electrified service?
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I have raised this many times before and I DONT want people to have a go at me for saying this like they have other times I am entitled to an opinion just like everyone else is.
Ok, back to the topic.
1. V/line services are comfier. There is a conductor present on the train at all times which makes us feel safer.
2. I think the V/line timetable is good as it is. V/line could add some extra carriages in peak times and 1 or 2 extra services but apart from that it is great.
3. V/line services are usually very quick. Connex trains are slow and it is frustrating to have the train continually stopping and starting at each station.
4.Connex trains may increase crime eg rock throwing eg Cragieburn Line.
5. Electrification means less V/line trains stop at Sunbury.
6. No adequate parking spaces in Sunbury for electrification, the only possible option I can see would be to make the double story carpark into triple or quadruple story.
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ZH836301
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Apr 26, 2006
Last Visited: Dec 1, 2008
Location: BleakCity
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Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 5:00 pm
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| melbtrip wrote: | | The best solution is to allow people a choice between a Connex service or A V/Line service. |
Best solution is to tell them to get over it.
| melbtrip wrote: | | Why don;t the people of Sunbury want an electrified service? |
It's not the people of Sunbury who don't want it, but a few persistant whingers for which the current arrangement suffices.
Last edited by ZH836301 on Wed Jul 23, 2008 5:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Revenue
Assistant Commissioner
Joined: Dec 01, 2004
Last Visited: Nov 27, 2008
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Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 5:39 pm
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One of the problems is that when you are putting new services in somewhere, they really aren't designed for existing users, but rather potential users - a theoretical group of people!
The existing arrangements probably suit the existing users - that's why they are using them! (making a point through a generalisation)
It was argued that we shouldn't have electrified to Craigieburn and that it would reduce patronage as people wanted to keep their V/Line trains.
Existing users might have really loved the V/Line service, but we know that the new services have attracted new users who like the improved frequency. I'm sure there are a small number of existing users who liked V/Line so much that they decided to drive instead when Connex started to operate the station. I'm also sure that they are in the minority, with lots more users joining the service.
When ever you are looking at new services the problem is that you can't point to a specific group of people and say "these are the people who will start catching the service if these changes are made". However, you can point to people being disadvantaged. Hence, you can have a situation where people who are happy with V/Line services can say "we want to keep V/Line trains", because you don't have a group of people you can point to being the beneficiaries of a new service.
It can be difficult to balance the needs of existing users with the needs of potential users that might be attracted by a change.
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ZH836301
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Apr 26, 2006
Last Visited: Dec 1, 2008
Location: BleakCity
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Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:00 pm
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| NR77 wrote: | | 1. V/line services are comfier. There is a conductor present on the train at all times which makes us feel safer. |
I'll tell you what's not comfortable - waiting longer for a service than the actual journey time of the service.
| NR77 wrote: | | 2. I think the V/line timetable is good as it is. |
Do you have a car?
| NR77 wrote: | | 3. V/line services are usually very quick. Connex trains are slow and it is frustrating to have the train continually stopping and starting at each station. |
As is stated ad nauseum in every Sunbury electrification thread - the travel time would not be vastly greater.
Mean travel time would actually reduce due to the corresponding increase in service frequency.
| NR77 wrote: | | 4.Connex trains may increase crime eg rock throwing eg Cragieburn Line. |
What? Some Diggers locals already have their fun with the Vline trains - open your eyes
| NR77 wrote: | | 5. Electrification means less V/line trains stop at Sunbury. |
Because they're replaced with a frequent service worthy of a metropolitan area.
They would most likely still stop at Sunbury, with pick up / set down restrictions, due to local traffic.
| NR77 wrote: | | 6. No adequate parking spaces in Sunbury for electrification, the only possible option I can see would be to make the double story carpark into triple or quadruple story. |
So you're saying increased patronage is a bad thing?
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melbtrip
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Mar 02, 2004
Last Visited: Dec 2, 2008
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Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:49 pm
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| Revenue wrote: | One of the problems is that when you are putting new services in somewhere, they really aren't designed for existing users, but rather potential users - a theoretical group of people!
The existing arrangements probably suit the existing users - that's why they are using them! (making a point through a generalisation)
It was argued that we shouldn't have electrified to Craigieburn and that it would reduce patronage as people wanted to keep their V/Line trains.
Existing users might have really loved the V/Line service, but we know that the new services have attracted new users who like the improved frequency. I'm sure there are a small number of existing users who liked V/Line so much that they decided to drive instead when Connex started to operate the station. I'm also sure that they are in the minority, with lots more users joining the service.
When ever you are looking at new services the problem is that you can't point to a specific group of people and say "these are the people who will start catching the service if these changes are made". However, you can point to people being disadvantaged. Hence, you can have a situation where people who are happy with V/Line services can say "we want to keep V/Line trains", because you don't have a group of people you can point to being the beneficiaries of a new service.
It can be difficult to balance the needs of existing users with the needs of potential users that might be attracted by a change. |
So you response to people that life in Sunbury and wants to keep using their V/Line is after electrification done to Sunbury is put with New Service or go elsewhere!
It better to do the following:
V/Line services should be like Sydney’s intercity service which allows anyone to use their services to any station which it stops at.
By this case Sunbury should be still allowed access to V/Line after electrification done to Sunbury.
The best way run V/Line services in Melbourne is by limited stations it stops in Melbourne suburban network area and when they stop at Melbourne Suburban Station they should not have Pick up and set down restrictions on the timetables.
After electrification is done:
Bendigo Line:
Southern Corss to North Melbourne and express to Sunshine and then express to Sunbury and stops all stations to Bendigo
Seymour Line
The Seymour line should have electrification done to it.
The New Seymour service should run as the following:
Flinders Street – Southern Cross – North Melbourne– Essendon – Broadmeows – Craigieburn and stops all stations to Seymour – This service should run this service every 30 to 40 minutes apart of each other.
Introduce a new train that has the following:
• At lease Top speed of 140km/hr
• Better seats then Connex has today, may something like Cityrail’s intercity services and these trains can run other long distance train services.
They could run this service every 20 to 30 minutes in peak time.
Note: still have the stopping all station from Craigieburn service that will run every 20 minutes apart
By this it should allow for the long distances trains to run express and stop at limited stations for example like:
Southern Cross – (run via Sunshine) Broadmeadows - Seymour and stopping all station to Shepparton or to Albury-
May be best to cut Broadmeadows out and run service express to Seymour from the city.
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train_lover01
Assistant Commissioner
Joined: Nov 06, 2004
Last Visited: Nov 30, 2008
Location: Melbourne
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Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:57 pm
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| ZH836301 wrote: | | NR77 wrote: | | 1. V/line services are comfier. There is a conductor present on the train at all times which makes us feel safer. |
I'll tell you what's not comfortable - waiting longer for a service than the actual journey time of the service.
| NR77 wrote: | | 2. I think the V/line timetable is good as it is. |
Do you have a car?
| NR77 wrote: | | 3. V/line services are usually very quick. Connex trains are slow and it is frustrating to have the train continually stopping and starting at each station. |
As is stated ad nauseum in every Sunbury electrification thread - the travel time would not be vastly greater.
Mean travel time would actually reduce due to the corresponding increase in service frequency.
| NR77 wrote: | | 4.Connex trains may increase crime eg rock throwing eg Cragieburn Line. |
What? Some Diggers locals already have their fun with the Vline trains - open your eyes
| NR77 wrote: | | 5. Electrification means less V/line trains stop at Sunbury. |
Because they're replaced with a frequent service worthy of a metropolitan area.
They would most likely still stop at Sunbury, with pick up / set down restrictions, due to local traffic.
| NR77 wrote: | | 6. No adequate parking spaces in Sunbury for electrification, the only possible option I can see would be to make the double story carpark into triple or quadruple story. |
So you're saying increased patronage is a bad thing? |
I agree with NR77, he has some good points, and it would do my head in stopping all stations to Sunbury,
Chris
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DalyWaters
Deputy Commissioner
Joined: Oct 31, 2006
Last Visited: Nov 28, 2008
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Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 7:49 pm
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| Quote: | | The best solution is to allow people a choice between a Connex service or A V/Line service. |
Are you for real!
As a taxpayer, I do not want to provide two choices for Sunbury commuters.
Next you'll want a coach service to Southern Cross every fifteen minutes as well.
Or do you expect these services to pick up at Werribee on the way as well?
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melbtrip
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Mar 02, 2004
Last Visited: Dec 2, 2008
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Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 8:13 pm
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| DalyWaters wrote: | | Quote: | | The best solution is to allow people a choice between a Connex service or A V/Line service. |
Are you for real!
As a taxpayer, I do not want to provide two choices for Sunbury commuters.
Next you'll want a coach service to Southern Cross every fifteen minutes as well.
Or do you expect these services to pick up at Werribee on the way as well? |
If a given service is going to stop at a given station and then the user should have the ability to use the service.
Most people will choice Connex’s service, but this solution will keep the people wanting to use the V/Line service Happy.
V/Line Interurban services should act same way as Sydney intercity rail acts in Sydney, allowing for suburban users access to their services.
Happy people = happy voters 
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Somebody in the WWW
Comeng Gunzel
Joined: Oct 08, 2004
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Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 8:48 pm
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Thanks to ZH836301 for keeping some sanity in this thread.
| melbtrip wrote: | The Seymour line should have electrification done to it.
The New Seymour service should run as the following:
Flinders Street – Southern Cross – North Melbourne– Essendon – Broadmeows – Craigieburn and stops all stations to Seymour – This service should run this service every 30 to 40 minutes apart of each other. |
No.
| melbtrip wrote: | | V/Line Interurban services should act same way as Sydney intercity rail acts in Sydney, allowing for suburban users access to their services. |
The interurban trains from Goulburn/Moss Vale to Sydney Terminal which I catch have a set down-only stop at Campbelltown - explain that.
| train_lover01 wrote: | | and it would do my head in stopping all stations to Sunbury |
It would do in your head catching a service that is slightly faster than the current P class push-pulls?
Go search the other Sunbury debates - I posted some timings (will search later).
| melbtrip wrote: | | If a given service is going to stop at a given station and then the user should have the ability to use the service. |
The up Tocumwal freight stops at Seymour to change the staff - should that carry commuters to Melbourne?
" The trains at Pennant Hills run roughly every half hour. Nobody in their right mind uses a service that shoddy. That so many do just proves how many dumb and/or desperate people there are in Sydney." - MrPC
Transport Textbook - My photos at RailPictures.Net |
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DalyWaters
Deputy Commissioner
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Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:50 pm
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| Quote: | | V/Line Interurban services should act same way as Sydney intercity rail acts in Sydney, allowing for suburban users access to their services. |
So Bendigo services should have lots of empty seats from Sunbury to Bendigo, just so Sunbury people can have a choice of Services???
| Quote: | | Happy people = happy voters |
Empty seats travelling long distances = unhappy voting taxpayers
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A4000Bear
Station Master
Joined: Jun 11, 2008
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Location: Taradale, Vic
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Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:00 am
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I am a regular traveller on the Bendigo line, and from a purely selfish perspective, I'll be glad to see the 'Sunbury Sardines' banished to a spark, and the two stops eliminated from my journey. It will also eliminate anomalies like having the 18:17 Swan Hill stopping at Sunbury and then wasting fuel carting one or two extra empty carriages all the way to Swan Hill that are no longer needed,
Any Sunbury passengers who really, really want to travel by V/line could always drive to Clarkefield and catch the train there. Though its not Zone 2 metropolitan, I believe its still the same fare. 
On a more serious note, if Sunbury is electrified, there will need to be serious thought given to running some peak services that are express to and from Diggers and Sunbury. V/line trains originating in Sunbury at peak times are already full by the time they reach Diggers.
There may also be a case in the future for building an extra Sunbury station between the existing Sunbury and Diggers stations. That area seems to be growing fast.
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Lance-Fieldline
Junior Train Controller
Joined: Jul 07, 2007
Last Visited: Dec 1, 2008
Location: Lamphey / Craigieburn
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Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:34 am
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| Quote: | | The up Tocumwal freight stops at Seymour to change the staff - should that carry commuters to Melbourne? |
Isn't it Train Order territory up that way?
Cheers
Lance
(Sorry about the thread drift)
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