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vr75
Locomotive Driver
Joined: Oct 16, 2005
Last Visited: Nov 11, 2008
Location: Bell Park / geelong
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Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:39 am
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| Riccardo wrote: | don't get wound up about it, this VR75 guy is just plain wrong.
There is no route to Mildura from Geelong that is less than 500km and therefore it cannot be done in 4 hours at the speedlimit or below.
Maybe he has a faultly memory. A lot of people have 'tall tales' which they tell their friends and after a while they can't remember whether the tale was true or not. |
would you like to be a passenger with me the next time I drive it?
even tho it has been a few years since I drove it my factual statement's is as close as I may remember them.
David.
active volunteer with steamrail as a marketing secetery, a souvenir sales person and a carrage maintainer among other things
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Donald
Station Staff
Joined: May 30, 2008
Last Visited: Nov 30, 2008
Location: Donald. Centre of the North West.
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Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:26 am
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The Geelong to Mildura line should be SG and then continued to Broken Hill and be used as a bypass of the Adelaide Hills for all Melbourne to Perth/Darwin traffic.
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per1
Junior Train Controller
Joined: Jul 24, 2006
Last Visited: Nov 30, 2008
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Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:40 pm
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Can any of the new sets ordered by the Vic Govt today, be availble to be used for the Mildura passenger service?
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ZH836301
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Apr 26, 2006
Last Visited: Dec 1, 2008
Location: BleakCity
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Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:47 pm
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| vr75 wrote: | would you like to be a passenger with me the next time I drive it?
even tho it has been a few years since I drove it my factual statement's is as close as I may remember them. |
I'd be willing to bet everything I own that it is not possible.
You're just talking complete and utter rubbish - you can't cover a absolute minumum of 470Km at 100Km/h in 4 hours
Did you flunk maths?
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luznug
Train Controller
Joined: Jan 22, 2005
Last Visited: Nov 28, 2008
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Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:30 pm
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If this is an ARTC project then why would they waste money upgrading and repairing an extra 500kms (Lascelles-Geelong) (Ararat-Maryborough) of track that will never see the volume of traffic that the Western line takes?
That’s 660 kms of upgrades and re-gauging compared to 340km with the Murtoa to Mildura idea.
With only 340 km’s of line to upgrade from Murtoa to Mildura it must be financially a better future investment.
The Grain traffic between Hopetoun and Murtoa will be reinstated (Councils want this now)
ElZoro could get council and community assistance to re-gauge the Pinarro line for the Minerals. (similar to Fishers idea)
QR has taken over the Horsham train now so they could build a terminal at Dooen that could be used for Mildura freight going West.
The upkeep on the newly built 30 kms of track between Hopetoun-Lascelles will be cheaper in the long term than the upgrade and upkeep of 500kms of track the Maryborough route uses.
The way I see it ARTC are making some serious upgrades on their main lines so its cheaper to build shorter branch lines on to the mainline then to build a parallel line that carries very little traffic.
The upgrade of passing lanes on the Western line can’t be far off either with 20 train days, more grain traffic and the Portland upgrade.
This Hopetoun route would benefit all traffic between Melbourne and Adelaide by reinvesting the savings in the main line.
The passenger train idea is to keep the Lines Broad Gauge to Ballarat Maryborough and Ararat “separate gauge separate services”
What ever traffic that runs on the Broad Gauge is Victraks concern and with the issues at Colac regarding a crossing loop maybe ARTC should look at building new lines to gather more traffic and CO2 credits while leaving the old formations for the passenger services.
Perhaps in the future the line between Ararat and Dunolly would re open when an outer mainline bypass runs from from Benalla via Shepparton and Bendigo to Dunolly.
Maybe the Vinelander can run double headed with the Overland to Horsham, ten hours is about all the train will take.
The bypass of Adelaide is more important than the Mildura Broken Hill line.
The Urbanisation of the Adelaide Hills needs dedicated passenger lines not the Interstate Railway.
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PClark
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Apr 01, 2003
Last Visited: Dec 1, 2008
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Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:16 pm
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"ten hours is about all the train will take."
About all?
In other words no faster than the Mildura Sunlight 50 years ago.
Who, other than gunzels or complete no-hopers, would want to go from Melbourne to Mildura via Geelong, Ararat, and Hopetoun in 10 hours when they can go by train and coach via Swan Hill in 7?
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luznug
Train Controller
Joined: Jan 22, 2005
Last Visited: Nov 28, 2008
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Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:09 pm
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| PClark wrote: | "ten hours is about all the train will take."
About all?
In other words no faster than the Mildura Sunlight 50 years ago.
Who, other than gunzels or complete no-hopers, would want to go from Melbourne to Mildura via Geelong, Ararat, and Hopetoun in 10 hours when they can go by train and coach via Swan Hill in 7? |
No-hopers like you Pieter are the reason no one travels around Australia to see Aussies.
When the Rivers are freed from private ownership perhaps the Mighty Murray will flow free and the birds, fish, wildlife tourists and travellers will arrive with appetites to learn of this Ancient Land with Sacred Rivers.
But here comes the no-hopers like you Pieter the concrete worshipers and nature haters.
Do you hate a slow relaxed life style Pieter?
Does Melbourne’s false big city mentality make you feel proud?
I cold see you running a great little business in Johannesburg.
“The service wont be much faster via Geelong on the standard gauge either.” 
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NottaGunzel
Banned
Joined: Jul 05, 2007
Last Visited: Nov 12, 2008
Location: Banned
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TheRev
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Jan 30, 2004
Last Visited: Nov 30, 2008
Location: On the phone.
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Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:25 pm
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I think you need to start seperating reality from these valium induced daydreams.
| luznug wrote: | | If this is an ARTC project then why would they waste money upgrading and repairing an extra 500kms (Lascelles-Geelong) (Ararat-Maryborough) of track that will never see the volume of traffic that the Western line takes? |
We're not talking about a proposed upgrade here, the line from Geelong to Mildura is currently under upgrade - this is reality! It would take very little to move a rail in 6 1/2 inches if desired. You may say "why bother" but it's already happening. There is no way that the Victorian Government will fork out this amount of money if they are going to simply abandon half of the line to construct a new one.
Did you realise if you want to go a more direct route to Adelaide from Mildura that a line already exists for this purpose?
Yep. The Ouyen to Tailam Bend railway! From Pinnaroo the line runs through to Tailem Bend direct. Tailem Bend being about 120km from Adelaide and about 400km (by rail) from Mildura. Why go 150km all the way down to Lascelles, then another 340km to Murtoa, then another 400 - 500km to Adelaide?
That's 520km compared to your 990km with the new line.
Start connecting the dots here. existing infrastructure is the way to go as it will more than service the needs placed upon it.
| luznug wrote: | That’s 660 kms of upgrades and re-gauging compared to 340km with the Murtoa to Mildura idea.
With only 340 km’s of line to upgrade from Murtoa to Mildura it must be financially a better future investment. |
How so? You're 300km further away from Mildura than if you used the Pinnaroo line, and you are still about 80km from Ararat. It's not really much of a net saving, is it.
| luznug wrote: | The Grain traffic between Hopetoun and Murtoa will be reinstated (Councils want this now)
ElZoro could get council and community assistance to re-gauge the Pinarro line for the Minerals. (similar to Fishers idea) |
Grain traffic will be re-instated on these lines anyway. I have heard that the line to Hopetoun is to be upgraded to a better standard, although it will be nowhere near as good as the Mildura corridor. I'd expect to see a maximum 65km/h speed limit on the line when it's done. I think V/Line Access have control of this line now, so El Zorro or even QRN could operate grain trains along it if they wished - once the line is trafficable again.
| luznug wrote: | | QR has taken over the Horsham train now so they could build a terminal at Dooen that could be used for Mildura freight going West. |
Why would they build a terminal there? Why not on the Adelaide side of Horsham in the industrial area?
Why would anything change now that QRN have taken over the Horsham Speedfreight? I could hardly see QRN investing money into a new terminal yard at Dooen if they were ever to lose the contract to another operator. It would be a rather big asset returning very little if this ever were the case.
| luznug wrote: | | The upkeep on the newly built 30 kms of track between Hopetoun-Lascelles will be cheaper in the long term than the upgrade and upkeep of 500kms of track the Maryborough route uses. |
You seem to have conveniently forgotten the other 150km from Mildura to Lascelles, the 310km of line through to Murtoa, plus the other 500km to Adelaide or 80km to Ararat.
| luznug wrote: | | The way I see it ARTC are making some serious upgrades on their main lines so its cheaper to build shorter branch lines on to the mainline then to build a parallel line that carries very little traffic. |
Right. So why waste money building 30 Miles of new railway for very little, when you can upgrade the existing lines and build a mere 2km of new line to link them at Ararat?
| luznug wrote: | | The upgrade of passing lanes on the Western line can’t be far off either with 20 train days, more grain traffic and the Portland upgrade. |
What makes you think this? It is still unknown as to how much traffic the Portland line will see and how this will affect the main line from Melbourne to Adelaide. So far the existing infrastructure has coped with the current amount of traffic, plus traffic from the Portland line in the past. If anything, a few loops will probably be lengthened and signalling upgraded.
| luznug wrote: | | This Hopetoun route would benefit all traffic between Melbourne and Adelaide by reinvesting the savings in the main line. |
No it won't.
You already have a far more direct link from Mildura to Adelaide existing waiting for an upgrade and re-gauge, in the Ouyen to Tailem Bend railway. The more direct route to the Port of Geelong is via Maryborough and Ballarat. The Portland line is a tad further via the Maryborough to Ararat line, but the advantage is that pretty much all infrastructure is in place ready and waiting for upgrading and re-opening, with a small extention needed at Ararat to link the two lines.
| luznug wrote: | The passenger train idea is to keep the Lines Broad Gauge to Ballarat Maryborough and Ararat “separate gauge separate services”
What ever traffic that runs on the Broad Gauge is Victraks concern and with the issues at Colac regarding a crossing loop maybe ARTC should look at building new lines to gather more traffic and CO2 credits while leaving the old formations for the passenger services.
Perhaps in the future the line between Ararat and Dunolly would re open when an outer mainline bypass runs from from Benalla via Shepparton and Bendigo to Dunolly. |
For Christ's sake, get off the Crack and get back on Earth.
V/Line are converting 3 N class locos and 15 cars for the Albury service to standard gauge...Why could V/Line not convert more for the Mildura service or the Ararat services for example, running via North Shore to Ballarat? It's not a hard thing to do.
Everything North of Ballarat will certainly make sense to be standard gauge. The line from Ballarat to Ararat is far more direct than the current line via Cressy - even via North Shore, plus it would actually be used for something other than seasonal traffic such as grain.
| luznug wrote: | | Maybe the Vinelander can run double headed with the Overland to Horsham, ten hours is about all the train will take. |
And miss out on potential customers (ergo voters) en-route via the existing route? You have to be kidding.
| luznug wrote: | The bypass of Adelaide is more important than the Mildura Broken Hill line.
The Urbanisation of the Adelaide Hills needs dedicated passenger lines not the Interstate Railway. |
Rubbish. The line from Broken Hill is far more important, as it will make more direct freight traffic with Melbourne, and an alternative route from either Port Augusta or Sydney. Far more desirable in my opinion. Also direct shipping of minerals to either Melbourne or Portland.
A bus is a glorified toaster on wheels.
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luznug
Train Controller
Joined: Jan 22, 2005
Last Visited: Nov 28, 2008
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Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 5:16 pm
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Lets see what freight not grain runs via Gheringhap on the Broad Gauge in the future?
The only part of the Mildura line that needs upgrade is the BG Ballarat to Maryborough section for pass services.
The remaining section from Hopetoun to Lascelles must be built and the section Lascelles to Mildura converted to standard gauge immediately
The distance from Lascelles to Melbourne via Hopetoun or Maryborough is exactly the same except you have the choice of all the Standard gauge ports and Yards in Australia when built via Hopetoun.
Its just another typical "Dictator Victoria" (Dictoria) rail upgrade program that benefits BG Gunzuls!
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TheRev
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Jan 30, 2004
Last Visited: Nov 30, 2008
Location: On the phone.
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Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 6:09 pm
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| luznug wrote: | | Lets see what freight not grain runs via Gheringhap on the Broad Gauge in the future? |
9141? Mineral traffic? The future of this line is standard gauge. It's just a case of when.
| luznug wrote: | | The only part of the Mildura line that needs upgrade is the BG Ballarat to Maryborough section for pass services. |
I hate to burst your bubble, but this isn't going to happen. Upgrading the Mildura line to the same standard as the Ballarat to Maryborough section has already commenced.
Doesn't reality suck? 
| luznug wrote: | | The remaining section from Hopetoun to Lascelles must be built and the section Lascelles to Mildura converted to standard gauge immediately |
Garbage.
I've already explained in detail that your precious line from Lascelles to Hopetoun is of very little to no value.
| luznug wrote: | | The distance from Lascelles to Melbourne via Hopetoun or Maryborough is exactly the same except you have the choice of all the Standard gauge ports and Yards in Australia when built via Hopetoun. |
If it's the same distance it further cancels the need for the Hopetoun line. Why not simply convert the existing line? It's already being upgraded. You'd only need to shift a rail inwards by six and a half inches.
| luznug wrote: | | Its just another typical "Dictator Victoria" (Dictoria) rail upgrade program that benefits BG Gunzuls! |
Not really.
The quality of the track condition is certainly worth the upgrade. Shifting a rail inwards will also benefit from the upgrade as well as most of the line will be to a good standard.
A bus is a glorified toaster on wheels.
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The Vinelander
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Mar 28, 2006
Last Visited: Dec 1, 2008
Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
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Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 7:48 pm
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Well that was an exercise in flaming 
The Vinelander, from Melbourne to Mildura was Victoria's only overnight sleeping car train which was launched 8/8/1972.
Ballan, the best town, on the best railway line, in the best state, of the best country in the World. Currently in Longreach.
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TheRev
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Jan 30, 2004
Last Visited: Nov 30, 2008
Location: On the phone.
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Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 8:00 pm
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More like a cold bucket of water.
A bus is a glorified toaster on wheels.
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574M
White Guru
Joined: Mar 15, 2006
Last Visited: Nov 28, 2008
Location: Shepparton
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Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:02 pm
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It is the nature of gunzels to dream and think what could be or what might be. I invite you to examine Melbtrip on ticketing.
New heavy rail construction is highly unlikely. All sorts of reasons for upgrading since RNFR are coming forward since Tim Fischer was posted to the Vatican. 
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Deep Throat
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Mar 21, 2004
Last Visited: Dec 1, 2008
Location: Hanging out with Donald Snerd
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Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:13 pm
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| 574M wrote: | | It is the nature of gunzels to dream and think what could be or what might be. |
But not in every second thread. One thread on passenger trains to Mildura: cool. There's a wealth of information on it (ask Bruce McLean) and much could be learned for the uninformed gunzel.
5-6 threads? Borderline forumspamming and combine that with the massive amounts of "I'd like a railway line built to here" threads, and it starts getting a bit much. We had Armchair Railways as a reason, get yer mod 'ats on and start moving these to their own little forum away from everything is where people can suggest as much historical and factual reasons as to why it will nae work and still not have this sink in.
| 574M wrote: | | I invite you to examine Melbtrip on ticketing. |
The only person who should be examining Melbtrap on ticketing is a qualified psychiatrist.
| 574M wrote: | | New heavy rail construction is highly unlikely. All sorts of reasons for upgrading since RNFR are coming forward since Tim Fischer was posted to the Vatican. |
But not in Every. Second. Bloody. Thread.
Anonymous - and proud of it.
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