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per1
Junior Train Controller
Joined: Jul 24, 2006
Last Visited: Nov 30, 2008
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Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 10:53 am
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Will this be faster enough?
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pollyclown
Station Staff
Joined: Aug 02, 2007
Last Visited: Jul 13, 2008
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Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 11:56 am
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The return of passenger V/line services to Mildura will never happen. As for the 80 km/h speed one would have to sit on a train for 9 or so hrs ( probably less so give an take a hour or so). At present Mildura is serviced by train via SwanHill ie Train from Melbourne to Swanhill then road coach from Swanhill to Mildura.
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Bruce McLean
Locomotive Driver
Joined: Jan 27, 2004
Last Visited: Nov 30, 2008
Location: Mildura
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Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 1:37 pm
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This NOT what Mildura people want. How can we get that through to you people who do not live in Mildura?
We want our own train service - not the present 4.30 A.M. departure to sit in a bus for hours to get to Swan Hill.
A modern rail car serice will most likely have a higher speed than 80kph.
Bruce in Mildura
Bruce McLean
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E1109
Minister for Railways
Joined: Jun 28, 2004
Last Visited: Dec 1, 2008
Location: Still in Alice Springs.
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Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:09 pm
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| Bruce McLean wrote: | This NOT what Mildura people want. How can we get that through to you people who do not live in Mildura?
<SNIP>
Bruce in Mildura |
The Vinelander was a good service in the 1980s, I remember people coming up overnight from Melbourne on the service to work on the vineyards at harvest time.
Would a high speed day service be the ticket for todays' traveller or an overnight service be sufficient(11 hours for the Melbourne-Mildura service rings a bell when the Vinelander was running)?
How much work is required for 115 or even 130km/h running to be possible?
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Somebody in the WWW
Comeng Gunzel
Joined: Oct 08, 2004
Last Visited: Dec 1, 2008
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Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:25 pm
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| Bruce McLean wrote: | | not the present 4.30 A.M. departure |
Catch the 10:30am one then.
| Bruce McLean wrote: | | sit in a bus for hours to get to Swan Hill. |
Only a bit over 2.5hrs - still quicker than some train via Ballarat.
| E1109 wrote: | | Would a high speed day service be the ticket for todays' traveller or an overnight service be sufficient(11 hours for the Melbourne-Mildura service rings a bell when the Vinelander was running)? |
Why on earth would anybody want a slow overnight train to Mildura re-introduced? IIRC it used to sit at Maryborough for 1 hour just so that it could maintain a half-respectable arrival time into Mildura.
" The trains at Pennant Hills run roughly every half hour. Nobody in their right mind uses a service that shoddy. That so many do just proves how many dumb and/or desperate people there are in Sydney." - MrPC
Transport Textbook - My photos at RailPictures.Net |
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E1109
Minister for Railways
Joined: Jun 28, 2004
Last Visited: Dec 1, 2008
Location: Still in Alice Springs.
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Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:38 pm
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| Somebody in the WWW wrote: |
| E1109 wrote: | | Would a high speed day service be the ticket for todays' traveller or an overnight service be sufficient(11 hours for the Melbourne-Mildura service rings a bell when the Vinelander was running)? |
Why on earth would anybody want a slow overnight train to Mildura re-introduced? IIRC it used to sit at Maryborough for 1 hour just so that it could maintain a half-respectable arrival time into Mildura. |
Basically, it was good for bed for the night. You don't lose a day travelling and if you could get some sleep in, it made for a good way to "gain" a day in your travels.
Same with the old Overland service, left after dinner from Melbourne, in for breakfast in Adelaide.
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574M
White Guru
Joined: Mar 15, 2006
Last Visited: Nov 28, 2008
Location: Shepparton
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Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 3:08 pm
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| per1 wrote: | | Will this be faster enough? |
No.
These are the days of 160kph services to Bendigo (and 160kph on other lines also, not to mention 130kph services to Seymour on the BG).
Why would you settle for less?
The days are coming when that line will be upgraded and B doubles and other sorts of rigs will not compete with rail. They will not be able to afford it.
Think broadly, look widely, and look to the faltering road transport economy. There will be a spin-off with faster passenger train services. Mark my words.
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Gwiwer
Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid
Joined: Nov 22, 2003
Last Visited: Dec 1, 2008
Location: Far away yet close at hand in images of elsewhere
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Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 3:32 pm
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80 kph Melbourne - Mildura is the speed of the last Century. As others have said trains now run at 160kph (and in other countries much more). A direct Melbourne - Mildura rail link should incorporate a good proportion of quality track capable of supporting this speed.
Whether the existing track is on the most commercially attractive alignment might be a debatable point however. It could make more sense to spend the sort of money which would be required taking the rails on from Swan Hill rather than rebuilding the existing route.
That does nothing for the (admittedly mostly modest) settlements along the line of route which would also benefit from a reinstated service. Neither does it assist the modal shift of freight from road back to rail.
In determining whether to spend big bucks returning passenger trains to Mildura the State Government would need to look closely at the cost - benefit scenario to the entire community and the total transport task, not just whether it might be nice to have something like the Vinelander restored.
Journey times need to be reasonably attractive for a successful passenger service to continue whilst not removing the ability to offer freight transport as and when required. In this context whether an overnight service would still be appropriate is perhaps doubtful. Higher rail speeds in Australia and elsewhere have seen off a lot of overnight travel. By way of comparison look at the upturn in business on the Overland since it became a daytime service both ways.
CEO Penhayle Bay Railway. Ferroequinologist. BA Hons (Honourable Bachelor of Aquatarts  )
The wise yet mysterious Sir Gwiwer Greybeard |
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574M
White Guru
Joined: Mar 15, 2006
Last Visited: Nov 28, 2008
Location: Shepparton
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Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 4:34 pm
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| Gwiwer wrote: | | 80 kph Melbourne - Mildura is the speed of the last Century. |
A sagacious observation.
| Gwiwer wrote: |
Whether the existing track is on the most commercially attractive alignment might be a debatable point however. It could make more sense to spend the sort of money which would be required taking the rails on from Swan Hill rather than rebuilding the existing route. |
This could well be an idea whose time has come! This idea just keeps on popping up, all over the place.
| Gwiwer wrote: |
That does nothing for the (admittedly mostly modest) settlements along the line of route which would also benefit from a reinstated service. Neither does it assist the modal shift of freight from road back to rail. |
It is interesting to look to many other lines where stations which fed modest settlements have been closed. We remember that our railways were built in the last century (and the century before that) to cater to what were largely horse and buggy days along with beasts of burdens and their carts.
In two centuries, so to speak, we have moved on from buggy and cart to the farm ute, the milk tanker, the cattle transports and the B doubles. We are possibly seeing the beginnings of the domino effect of the sub-prime crisis in the US, (monetary factors) along with the domino of rising oil prices, and peak oil. While modest settlements in the bush have also suffered erosion of peoples to larger centres and grain transport arrangements have also changed markedly, I cannot help but feel that regional freight centres and regional passenger centres will only expand, being fed by both bus and rail. We are still looking through a fog toward the future to see what social capital will emerge, and *if* there will be fossil fuel driven transport. Big changes are coming, but the modest settlements you speak of on the Sunraysia Highway will not be overlooked.
| Gwiwer wrote: |
In determining whether to spend big bucks returning passenger trains to Mildura the State Government would need to look closely at the cost - benefit scenario to the entire community and the total transport task, not just whether it might be nice to have something like the Vinelander restored. |
Yes, bang for bucks is definitely needed. Social accounting (accounting for community needs and responsibilities) is probably going to be a key consideration. Bean counters have persistenly ignored social capital; then again, various administrations have overlooked this also.
| Gwiwer wrote: |
Journey times need to be reasonably attractive for a successful passenger service to continue whilst not removing the ability to offer freight transport as and when required. |
Should an extension from Swan Hill to Mildura (or Ouyen, for that matter) occur, then the remainder of the route could be left in situ for local goods (perhaps a return of roadside goods!) and local services to other centres using Sprinters, perhaps. The return of the Donald pass in such circumstances would not be far-fetched. Gauge, of course, is a yet to be resolved issue. Perhaps we will see SG outside Melbourne and only BG for suburbans... but this is a side issue. On everyone's mind, mind you, with dual gauge PCR's dotted all over the place...
| Gwiwer wrote: |
In this context whether an overnight service would still be appropriate is perhaps doubtful. Higher rail speeds in Australia and elsewhere have seen off a lot of overnight travel. By way of comparison look at the upturn in business on the Overland since it became a daytime service both ways. |
Good points here, Gwiwer.
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NathanCastle
Assistant Commissioner
Joined: Dec 11, 2007
Last Visited: Nov 24, 2008
Location: Gippsland
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Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 5:25 pm
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If or when the Mildura line goes to standard gauge (Port of Portland wants It to be) that would kill any passenger service unless the southern terminis was Ballarat or Geelong as the standard gauge from North Shore (Geelong suburb) and Southern Cross Station Is regarded as a funeral prosesion for traveling speed (Overland)
This proposed carbon trading scheme Is going to ruin the economy of Australia. "Dump It Now"
65 miles from Flinders Street Station Melbourne and 703 feet above sea level
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PClark
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Apr 01, 2003
Last Visited: Dec 1, 2008
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Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 6:22 pm
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Do we really need yet ANOTHER thread on a pass to Mildura?
They just go round and round in circles anyway.
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ZH836301
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Apr 26, 2006
Last Visited: Dec 1, 2008
Location: BleakCity
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Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 6:41 pm
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^Too right
| Bruce McLean wrote: | | This NOT what Mildura people want. |
Who gave you the right to speak for them?
My relatives in the area are happy with the bus, as opposed to spending an eternity sitting on a through rail service - I guess the train proposals just give the Sunraysia Daily something to whinge about (now that the toxic dump's gone).
I can't believe, when we can't even get rail to South Morang, people are suggesting we waste money extending lines through whoop-whoop.
| 574M wrote: | | Yes, bang for bucks is definitely needed. Social accounting (accounting for community needs and responsibilities) is probably going to be a key consideration. Bean counters have persistenly ignored social capital; then again, various administrations have overlooked this also. |
The community need is transport - not a specifically a train.
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639
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Sep 22, 2005
Last Visited: Dec 1, 2008
Location: Daylesford
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Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 8:24 pm
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Maryborough is getting a pass service despite what people are saying... So In the future I think Mildura will too.
639
A member of Steamrail, DSCR and the VGR
Website updated 19/10/08 |
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Somebody in the WWW
Comeng Gunzel
Joined: Oct 08, 2004
Last Visited: Dec 1, 2008
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Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 8:27 pm
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You can hardly compare Maryborough with Mildura (despite being on the same line) or say that the presence of the former makes a passenger service to the latter more viable, as the distance between them by rail is longer than the distance from Melbourne to Swan Hill.
" The trains at Pennant Hills run roughly every half hour. Nobody in their right mind uses a service that shoddy. That so many do just proves how many dumb and/or desperate people there are in Sydney." - MrPC
Transport Textbook - My photos at RailPictures.Net |
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vlocity160
V/Gunzel
Joined: May 03, 2006
Last Visited: Nov 30, 2008
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Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 8:33 pm
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| pollyclown wrote: | | The return of passenger V/line services to Mildura will never happen. |
You don't know that for sure. I believe (Doesn't mean I will be right) that it will return by at latest 2011.
Regards,
Matt
SRHC Member/Volunteer
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