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xtrap_heaven
Chief Train Controller
Joined: Aug 19, 2007
Last Visited: Dec 1, 2008
Location: Melbourne's Train Network
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Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:23 am
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Has anyone noticed that D's never seem to run on routes 1, 3, 55, 67, 75, 86, 109... Why is that? Especailly as a lot of money was spent installing wheelchair accessible tram stops on Plenty Road (Route 86).
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connexwest
Assistant Commissioner
Joined: Jun 24, 2005
Last Visited: Nov 30, 2008
Location: Waiting for the World's Biggest Divvy Van
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Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 11:02 am
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Well firstly, in regards to the platform stops along Plenty Road- they were installed as part of the Think Tram program, as well as making the network DDA compliant- that is, by 2020 (I think that's the year) public transport has to be fully accessible by the elderly and disabled.
As for the no Ds on there (C class does the 109), it's simply a matter of fleet availability and allocation. As the 86 is operated from East Preston, they haven't been allocated any low floor trams (similar to Camberwell, Essendon.) When the next batch of new low floor trams come, it’s possible you may then see low floors out to Bundoora. Until then, it’s a long wait.
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r707
Assistant Commissioner
Joined: Jan 29, 2004
Last Visited: Dec 1, 2008
Location: Riding on the back of a freight in a Teacup ZMF
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Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 11:14 am
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86 is run with only East Preston trams, so is restricted to A2's, B1's and B2's, as they are the only classes stabled there. C's and D's have ventured to the Bundoora terminus before under test, as the Northern part of the line is often used by Preston Workshops for testing. I do not recall ever seeing a W up there though.
75 is based out of Camberwell I think, so no low floors there either.
109 is split between Kew and Southbank, hence the A's and C's, although there is a photo or two on Vicsig of a D2 on 109.
Much the same for the other route numbers listed. In general the Northern suburbs are poorly serviced by low-floor trams, with 96 being the only route to see them daily, with occasional C's on 112
Seeing as all stops have to be DDA compliant by 2020, the Plenty Rd stops would have to have been done sooner or later, and seeing as their installation wouldn't severely disrupt anyone (unlike stops in say, Burke Rd (Route 72) or Sydney Rd (Route 19)), Yarra Trams probably figured it was just as easy to build them.
There is also the possibility some of the next order of 100 low-floors will be based at East Preston, as Route 86 does carry quite a few people.
Confucius Say man who fart in church sits in his own pew
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MelbourneCity
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Jan 22, 2003
Last Visited: Nov 29, 2008
Location: Melbourne
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Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 12:33 pm
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The government is supposed to order new trams in the next year to 2 years for delivery from 2011 to replace much of the high floor trams - The Zs will go first.
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route14
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Dec 28, 2006
Last Visited: Dec 2, 2008
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Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 7:17 am
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Nothing wrong with B class on route 86 for me.
Not the black cat
nor the white cat
but the right cat
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Mr. Lane
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Oct 11, 2003
Last Visited: Dec 1, 2008
Location: The TARDIS
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Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:26 pm
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The 86 is well used, but there are others that should get bigger, low floor trams first, in particular the 19 comes to mind.
When the 86 does eventually get low floor trams allocated, the B's should move right onto the 112, which is one of the worst lines in terms of overcrowding in the parts of the system I travel on. This is due to the fact that its served *only* by A's during the peak (at least in all the times I have used it).
I would think though that low floor trams for the 1, 8 and 19 might be the next move...just a guess.
I have no Signature
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Autopenguin
Chief Train Controller
Joined: Oct 04, 2003
Last Visited: Nov 10, 2008
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Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:40 pm
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| Mr. Lane wrote: |
When the 86 does eventually get low floor trams allocated, the B's should move right onto the 112, which is one of the worst lines in terms of overcrowding in the parts of the system I travel on. This is due to the fact that its served *only* by A's during the peak (at least in all the times I have used it). |
You're pretty much right, and yes, it's a horrendous crush load on a tram type that doesn't deal well with crush loading. Just a few hours ago I was having my face crushed into the back of someone's head on the 112. Happens every time I catch it either at peak times or late into the night.
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Gwiwer
Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid
Joined: Nov 22, 2003
Last Visited: Dec 1, 2008
Location: Far away yet close at hand in images of elsewhere
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Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:53 pm
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| Quote: | | Has anyone noticed that D's never seem to run on routes 1, 3, 55, 67, 75, 86, 109... Why is that? |
Quite simply because there are no D-class trams allocated to the depots which run those routes.
The D-class was ordered for and delivered to M>Tram. As such an operational need for them would have been identified and they were allocated to Malvern to replace ageing Z class trams there. Only since the unified franchise have the D2 class migrated to Southbank for the 96
YT's own low-floor order was the C (now C1) class delivered specifically for the Project 109 route upgrade though they stray to other routes out of Kew and Southbank on a fairly frequent basis.
All routes will need to be operated by low-floor trams with a mjority of stops fully accessible in order to meet the DDA deadline of 2020.
This means that some large orders of new trams should be placed within the next few years if something like 400 new vehicles are to be supplied over 12 years. An order for 100 has been in the pipeline for a while now but things seem to have gone quiet on that front.
Where the next tranche of low-floor trams go is still to be decided as far as I know but a northern depot would be a good bet. Preston, Essendon and Brunswick have nil low-floor trams at present. A good number of raised platform stops exist along the 86 route so smart money might be on Preston getting some though don't discount Brunswick who are responsible for the very busy 19 which is seen as a flagship route.
CEO Penhayle Bay Railway. Ferroequinologist. BA Hons (Honourable Bachelor of Aquatarts  )
The wise yet mysterious Sir Gwiwer Greybeard |
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route14
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Dec 28, 2006
Last Visited: Dec 2, 2008
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Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:31 am
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A breakdown or derailment on route 19 would be a nightmare, while a D2 class only carries 11 more than a B2 does according to the specifications.
Not the black cat
nor the white cat
but the right cat
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trolleybusracer
Deputy Commissioner
Joined: Dec 12, 2006
Last Visited: Dec 1, 2008
Location: St Albans Sydenham Watergardens Line
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Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 7:15 pm
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route14
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Dec 28, 2006
Last Visited: Dec 2, 2008
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Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 7:42 pm
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A PSed version? These days the technicians won't put "street" in full word into the destination.
Not the black cat
nor the white cat
but the right cat
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Gwiwer
Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid
Joined: Nov 22, 2003
Last Visited: Dec 1, 2008
Location: Far away yet close at hand in images of elsewhere
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Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:00 pm
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| route14 wrote: | | A PSed version? These days the technicians won't put "street" in full word into the destination. |
I would expect to see "via Smith St" and not "v. Smith Street".
There have been no recorded runs of a D2 on the 86 to date. No Preston staff are trained on them (unless they have recently transferred from Southbank or Malvern) and Southbank staff may not be familiar with the route and would be required to request assistance.
CEO Penhayle Bay Railway. Ferroequinologist. BA Hons (Honourable Bachelor of Aquatarts )
The wise yet mysterious Sir Gwiwer Greybeard |
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route14
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Dec 28, 2006
Last Visited: Dec 2, 2008
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Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:42 pm
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When it comes to the "via" thing, wouldn't it be confusing after, say, Smith St.? There should be a provision to omit that part of display.
Not the black cat
nor the white cat
but the right cat
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Gwiwer
Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid
Joined: Nov 22, 2003
Last Visited: Dec 1, 2008
Location: Far away yet close at hand in images of elsewhere
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Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:00 pm
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| route14 wrote: | | When it comes to the "via" thing, wouldn't it be confusing after, say, Smith St.? There should be a provision to omit that part of display. |
Ah the eternal "via point" conundrum 
Yes it could be confusing but no more so than any other similar display such as "Vermont South via Bridge Road" or the geographically challenged "Moreland via Lygon St & City" (City comes before Lygon St when working towards Moreland).
Try taking your arguments to London where TfL has decreed that after over a century of providing the best route information in Britain (and among the best in the World) London buses shall show only a route number and ultimate destination in case the "via" points confuse people when the vehicle has already passed a particular spot.
When I studied there a double decker would have three or four lines of via points and two lines on a single decker. Apart from older vehicle still in the fleets that no longer applies so there is nothing on the front of, say, a 15 at Paddington to indicate which way it travels to the somewhat obscure location of Blackwall Station some 20 kms distant, yet it services many of London's most famous streets and landmarks.
The lunatics have taken over that asylum for sure.
With Melbourne trams it could be done through the PM system with an electronic link to the destination memory. The TDKP should always know where the tram is and should be able to have the software encoded to reset displays to "via Clifton Hill", "via Monash University" etc. as the tram progresses towards Bundoora.
The problem lies in how much memory is available.
Better still the recent scrolling displays can be programmed to show a full height route number with an ultimate desitnation continuously displayed as an upper line of text and scrolling "via" points below. Those should be more easily programmed to "wipe" the points which the tram has already passed.
So a tram in Bourke Street might show "86 Bundoora RMIT" with "via Smith St, Clifton Hill, Preston, Monash Uni" all scrolling through on the lower line but only the latter two, for example, would still show once the tram passes Clifton Hill.
I'm not sure whether these are programmed in-house by YT staff or are supplied, fitted and attended to by contractors. I suspect the former as they seem to be changed quite often and the 112 "West Preston via Brunswick St" still isn't set up correctly; it wipes to blank at "via Brunswi" or thereabouts. More effective use could certainly be made of this new system.
CEO Penhayle Bay Railway. Ferroequinologist. BA Hons (Honourable Bachelor of Aquatarts )
The wise yet mysterious Sir Gwiwer Greybeard |
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connexwest
Assistant Commissioner
Joined: Jun 24, 2005
Last Visited: Nov 30, 2008
Location: Waiting for the World's Biggest Divvy Van
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Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:21 am
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| Gwiwer wrote: | | route14 wrote: | | A PSed version? These days the technicians won't put "street" in full word into the destination. |
I would expect to see "via Smith St" and not "v. Smith Street".
There have been no recorded runs of a D2 on the 86 to date. No Preston staff are trained on them (unless they have recently transferred from Southbank or Malvern) and Southbank staff may not be familiar with the route and would be required to request assistance. |
Without knowing when exactly the picture was taken, it was likely taken the other week when route 86 and 96's from the city were terminating at Nicholson and victoria due to track works.
But as for editing the destos to be more relevant, I believe you're all forgetting an important matter- it's only worth doing if (and I stress the word if) the passengers bother to read the destinations.
And they do not. 95% of the time, they will look at the destination of a 75 service car, and still ask the driver "Do you go to Bridge Road?" No matter what you put up there, no matter how "relevant" you change it to, it will be all for nothing.
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