Life on the Hunter Heavies...

4426_No_2_end · Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 11:21 am

Thanks ShowMeTheMoney as I wasnt too sure if the Engine Brake Pipe Pressure could be diverted into braking the "failed" train brake air supply.

As for local practices is it still a case of nobody knows how we did it but since we are not blocking anything control is very happy whith us now and they arent worried we wont be either?

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KRviator · Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 11:23 am

As SMTM said, you must always have operating brakes on the last 3 wagons of a train. Always. No exception. So a train could not legally leave the terminal like that. And if it did, the crew that took it out wouldn't have a job when they got back as the Relief Crew would not move the train from the mine until it was fixed.

The reason behind this is that if there is a breakaway, the loss of BP pressure will apply the brakes. By having the "normal" braking system cut out, and using pressure from the #3 pipe, if there is a breakaway the #3 pipe will be venting to atmosphere resulting in a loss of pressure on those vehicles fitted with it, and zero pressure on the now-broken-away wagons, which are now free to roll all the way to Blacktown station, if it happened at Katoomba if they don't roll over first...

FWIW the rules for having the air brake cut out on one of the last 3 wagons are a maximum speed of 50kph and if it is the last wagon, the emergency towing chain must be attached, to ensure if it does break away, at lest it'll stay with the train, not bugger off into the distance...

Trainee Driver, Pacific National

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ShowMeTheMoney · Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 1:04 pm

4426_No_2_end · Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 1:32 pm

Gee thanks fella's just to think how problematic a busted air hose can be or a wagon with its brakes being cut out on a normal freighter becomes a deadset nightmare if its on a Hunter Heavy.

With the 3 packs and 7 packs is it a continuous rubber pipe connecting both wagons where the slackless drawgear is or the conventional type as seen on the end of a normal wagon and does this present a problem in changing them compared to a conventional air coupling arrangement?

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ShowMeTheMoney · Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 1:43 pm

4426_No_2_end · Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 9:46 pm

But you would carry an assortment with you in case of such emergencies right?

Or would there be spares scattered on the train and at places like major stations etc if there arent any available on the loco's?

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ShowMeTheMoney · Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 11:16 pm

Locos have a basic assortment of tools and spare hoses. As for spares at stations, only at loco depots or freight yards will there be spares.

KRviator · Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 10:37 am

BFCYU · Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 10:29 pm

Rob & all;
I am enjoying this thread immensely.

There is also another reason the last 3 wagons must have the air cut in,
not only for break aways but also similar of dividing trains in the section.

When I was an engineman till the mid 1980's; it WAS not common to divide the train; (on the average for me was about once a year) BUT
it did happen sometimes in multi unit trains and with 3 ground relays on 1 engine, ( which then become a failure) or constant wheel slip & ampmeter with overloaded wagons in tonneage (over the 76 tonne) on steep grades, and other reasons too.

The last three MUST be holding ( and from the minimum retention time
from the brake examining time.) and for trains left in the section.

This rule was introduced ( i think) to replace the guards van i.e. brake van at the rear of the train--with a guard (who wasn't asleep) at the back
of the goods train. They were supposed to put handbrakes on at the back with the min. of 3 wagons if divided in the section.

ShowMeTheMoney may also verify at the old FreightCorp it was
NO MORE than 3 air cut outs on any train but after merging P/N took the National Rail rule of no more than 10% of the train wagons.--which can be different-depending....

Eg: of the last three holding rule: (with brake van anyway!)

Enfield blokes used to do a lot of Thirroul or Port Kembla Blokes work on Sunday nights. (better not go into the full reasons why even after 25 years! )
I was working a steel train about 11pm one particular Sunday night; climbing up the coast hill we were only going <less than walking speed; and we STALLED on the Stanwell Park side of Helensburgh station in the Up direction. (constant wheelslip and putting potholes in the rail)
It was just too overloaded. The 3x 48 class could not get up that hill.
It was wet & slippery and run out of sand. I checked it out with no sticky brakes or handbrakes left on.
So we had to divide the train and guard protect (guard det. the back behind the train) & handbrake the back portion. And I det. the rear first portion
(when we had to come back on wrong road order.)

Took half the train to Waterfall and then returned Back to pick up the rest.
(as their was no relief engines on a Sun night to push us up the hill)

WELL that was one night I will never forget!! in wet & slippery conditions.

So i suppose it was & also is the last three wagons must be holding.
Train breakaways or traindivision in the section.

I was going to say something about engine wheel slips (esp no sand left)
while in the coal loaders (low speed)---using the independents; old diesels anyway---but i better not.

Again I am enjoying your thread.

4426_No_2_end · Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:42 pm

Thats a good story BFCYU. Very Happy

Just with multiple unit working if the front 48 on the train ran out of sand wouldnt there be sand in the loco's in the shafts or is it a case of one loco sands they all sand?

I ask this because I thought the sanding gear was independant to each loco and is this different with the Super Series Wheelslip technology?

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BFCYU · Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:13 pm

Good Question 4426_No_2_end.

It was many "moons ago" and putting the thinking cap on.

I think it was all from the leading loco. then (in the 1980's)
(when it was in multiples---only 3 the max then too!)

ie leading loco sanding they all sanded.
(but I just cannot remember actually)

Some one out there would remember.

(but I do remember one thing!
If some of the green-head engineman keep putting their
feet on the sand button--it would soon runout sand quick real soon)

AT that particular night;
the 3x 48 class were just all slipping all the same time--till we just about to roll back--the driver Garry White put the train brakes on.
It was no good for the traction motors either or the electricals!!
(We were still stretched out but Garry did not want to risk it)

When I was there the first stint on the old State Rail NSW;
heaps of trains were overloaded to the max.
with just the standard 76 tonne on the ticket & X2010
(and would be probably double that weight)
and we had one of those short deadly steel train's that night.
(around 20 odd wagons.)

I think also the 48 class was about 600-615 tonnes
each to pull a train up that hill.
So 3 x 48 class should have been around 1800-1845 tonne.
( only remember that because it was heaps of branch line 48 class
on the Illawarra then and it was by half that coming up the Como bank
hill in the down direction--360 tonne each)

When I first joined the old PTC NSW in 1977;
I used to see a lot of slipping & sliding when it was raining of the single
48 class hauling the coast passenger train working then;
after they had a signal check on the down direction at Jannali Railway Station. (on that 1 in 40 hill)
( I was a Juniour Station Assistant-JSA on the down side then to witness it)

KRviator · Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 3:24 pm

4426Just with multiple unit working if the front 48 on the train ran out of sand wouldnt there be sand in the loco's in the shafts or is it a case of one loco sands they all sand?

I ask this because I thought the sanding gear was independant to each loco and is this different with the Super Series Wheelslip technology?[/quote]Without hitting the books, when superseries decides it needs sand, it sends a trainline signal to the trailing loco's and they'll sand as though you've got your foot on the pedal until the signal stops, or they run out of sand. Then they'll just keep trying anyway. Same with manual sanding. If any loco's run out of sand, they'll just keep trying, which achieves nothing more than wasting your MR air...

One restriction on Super Series & manual sanding is it is not available above 8kph powering, but is available continously in dynamic.

Trainee Driver, Pacific National

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574M · Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:45 pm

Turning into a really interesting thread with really interesting stories, KRviator.

KRviator · Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:50 pm

Here's today's then...

Rostered for 0550 empty to Drayton. Wake up at 0610 to the sound of the A/C running outside. Check the phone for both time and calls recieved and roll over again. 0620 brings my wakeup call, with the ZONA clerk telling me I'll now be going to Teralba push/pull.

3-man push pull is good, as the entire crew gets paid L16 rates. Even me. Very Happy

So about a $10/hour increase over what I'm normally on, or thereabouts. So pack a substantial lunch and pinch the car again. When I get to work I say G'day to the other driver's already there. Then we find out that one of the Driver's isn't qualified for Teralba/Vales Point. Shocked

So, after much banter, there's a swap of crews and I'll now be relief with a Driver I'd worked with a couple of times last week, going to Drayton to bring one home. So the Teralba crew's duly dispatched and we sign for our gear and head off. We're told to call the zona clerk at Singleton to find out how the train's doing. We pull up there to make the call and find the train is ready to go due out at 0830 and can we get there in time. "Just" is our reply and we hot-foot it past the power stations and turn off after the rail bridge.

Pulling up we head down to the loco's and we relieve the operating crew. As we're having a brief chat the signal clears and we climb up. My Driver for the day asks if I want to take it home and I agree. Drayton's branch line drops away at about 1:50, the steepest descent in the Hunter, IIRC, and you can get into trouble if you aren't careful. As this is the first time I've brought a train out of Drayton's, I'm briefed on the best way to go about it.

So brakes released, one notch takes us out, then back to idle, pause to let everything settle, then into dynamic, increasing to full when the slack in the couplers has run in. Then a minimum brake application & ease the dynamic out to maximise the distance we travel before we stop. As we slow below two magic figures, 5kph & 300 amps, the independent brake is applied to stop the loco's running out on the train and spilling the cups of tea, like I did last week. In a very big way... Embarassed

Once the train is stopped, the trainbrake is released and as the brakes come off on the wagons we start to creep forward and I reapply full dynamic brakes & release the independent brake.

By this time, the counter is indicating we're almost out of the 15kph restriction that applies to trains in the Drayton's loop & I can let the speed build slightly to 20kph for a temporary speed restriction ahead. This time, I make a minimum brake application & reduce the dynamic & balance the train's speed using the dynamic. If it gets too fast, a little more dyno, if it starts to slow, ease it out a little, and we can maintain 20kph all the way to the outer home signal for the mainline junction.

To guard against sticking brakes, I'm advised to stop short of the level crossing at the signal and make a full service, equalised aplication. This ensures the brakes at the rear of the train get a "definite" reduction & then increase in pressure and ensures the pressure increase upon brake release is sufficient to move the triple valve to the "release" position.

Once that is done, the independent brake is released, dynamic brake increased to full and the rear of our 86-wagon train pushes the loco's towards the mainline. Dynamic brake is gradually reduced to the set-up position, and when that's reached the train is more or less balanced at the botton of the dip & I start to apply power to drag it out to the mainline.

Once we're fully out, power is increased to bring us up to speed & after discussions with my Driver for the day, instead of using dynamic braking most of the way home, I'll use the airbrake almost exclusively. So when reuqired brakes go on at 50kph for a minimum application & I find it's actually slightly faster using the air brake as opposed to the dynamic, as normally coming down into Singleton, I'll hold the speed around 40kph on dynamic, as this is where the maximum braking effort is achieved, but by using the air brake I can hold it at the maximum we're allowed of 60. Not a huge increase, but over the trip it might save a few minutes.

So, we go through Singleton, green lights all the way, around the corner on the straight to Whittingham, and we increase the speed to 80 to give us the most momentum for climbing Minimbah bank. 8 notch gives us around 12,000 HP to move around 10,000 tonnes up the hill. Impressive figures until you realise it's your asre on the line if you screw up.

Over the top of the hill, I shut off back to 1 notch, let the speed build to around 50kph and reduce the BP pressure for another minimum application. The speed stabilises around 58 & I release the brakes as we approach the bottom of the hill. Waiting until you are at the bottom will slow you dramatically, due to the "exhaust chokes" fitted to all our wagons, designed to retard the release of the brakes by 45 seconds. So the aim is to have most of them in the process of releasing as the loco's hit the level crossing marking the bottom of the hill at Belford. That way you won't go over your allowable 60kph, but will still have maximum momentum to get you back up the next hill.

Power is applied to bring us over the crest of the next hill and we drop down to the second level crossing and onto the bridge marking the bottom of the grade. Again power is applied to pull the train up the grade towards Branxton, still running under full clear signals. Very Happy

Passing Branxton, I forget to note the time, and power comes back 4-5 notch to ensure we don't run overspeed going into the dip on the southern end of the straight. As we reach the bsae of the dip, power comes back on and we head uphill towards Greta and the site of Allandale.

I'm told you can gain between 6 & 10kph in the dip through Greta and as we only crest the hill at 50, power is left in 8 notch until we pass the radio tower marking the top of the grade at Allandale. About 1km before the top we pass a Warning board for a 40kph speed restriction. Finding the trackworkers have put the sign about 400m too close to the worksite, we creep through at about 35 over some new rail welds and past a handful of orange-vested trackworkers.

Setting the counter at the Clearance board, we maintain between 35 & 40 until it reads 145, indicating 1450 metres passed since the last reset and as we are 1445 metres long, we can now increase our speed again to the maximum of 60kph for the approach into Maitland.

Lochinvar comes and goes, with a final brake application and release and we enter Maitland yard, still under dynamic brakes until we pass under the New England highway bridge, then the dynamic goes back to idle, then one notch is selected to gently stretch out the train. Two notch is taken and we maintain 50kph until we're clear of the lower speed zone when I bring it back up to 60kph, giving a friendly wave to a couple of serious-looking gunzels on the pedestrian bridge.

High Street, East MAitland & Victoria street all come & go and as round the corner towards Metford to be greeted with a Caution signal. As I reduce power to idle and engage dynamic my Drievr asks if I know where the next signal is. "past the station, where it starts to pitch up" is my reply, and though we've got plenty of room, I'm still learning and am paranoid, so make a minimum application of the train brake to bring the speed right down before we get anywhere near the offending signal.

Due to my early airbrake application we stop well short of the signal, release the brakes & creep up to it. It doesn't change from its' STOP indication and as we see a train over the hill it crosses over from the Down Coal to the Down Main line, passing us with 2 82's & a train bound for Stratford.

Returning from a potty break the signal has cleared, so the brakes are released and once they've fully recharged, we slowly power away and up the hill towrads Thornton. PAssing over the hill at about 30kph I power down towards the crossovers & shut off, bringing in dynamic again to maintain the speed below the 60kph maximum.

Power is gently brought back in after Beresfield and we scoot across through Tarro, then Hexham, still under full clear signals. Approaching Sandgate the Driver advises of "a flasher", or Medium indicatoin. I remark that it will take us to North Fork & slow the train in dynamic as even though we've still got plenty of room before the likely signal at stop, I'm not confident enough to go charging right up to them yet. Bad idea even when you are confident anyway...

So we creep around to North Fork and stop at the home signal. A company coal train runs past us and I fetch some lunch from the fridge. As I regain my seat the signal clears to Caution, then clear and we move off. Passing more trackworkers inspecting the points under Maitland Road we head over the Hunter River bridge, the signal at the far end displaying a Calling On indication.

9027 is at the head of a departing coal train and I let them know of the track workers the other side of the bridge via the WB radio. One of the comments from the Singleton report is both Train Control & the crew of the Up Coalie knew of the electricians, but didn't tell the crew of the Down Coalie. At least I've done my bit this time & covered my own asre...

Passing signal K1 right on midday, we call the Resource Coordinator to advise we're on the island and stop at signal K3. Eventually it clears and we head into #1 arrival road & I set up the telemetry unit. (Correctly this time Embarassed

) and we crawl around to a shunt signal prior to the dump station. Eventually that too clears and we slowly make our way around towards the bins where we're greeted with a chap with a red flag at the level crossing. Stopping clear ofthe crossing he tells us that, as they're working in the middle bin with cranes moving equipment around, they don't want us any closer. Apparently it's fine for them to lift equipment over the wagon's, but the loco's or the crew inside them are irreplacable, so that explains the red flag.

Eventually we're given the proceed light to enter the dump station and we commence unloading, heading into #1 departure road at Kooragang. Finally we hear our relief crew call us and we tell them if they're quick they can come down the middle road as we're about 50 yards off the train in #2 road. They come via the normal road though and we chang over, telling them the fuels, and then head back to Port Waratah, signing off after an neat 8.0 hours.

Tomorrow is a very bland shift. 0900 Call-truck driver to Mudgee. At least I will have one way to myself and can bring some CD's along. As long as I'm signed off around 1700 I don't care. I've got a BBQ to go to tomorrow night with one of the other L10's from work. Very Happy

Trainee Driver, Pacific National

Comments made are strictly the opinion of the author and do not reflect the opinions of the ADF, Pacific National, Freight Australia or the Boy Scouts of Antartica.

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BFCYU · Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 8:48 pm

I am enjoying your "left hand side seat" .
It makes me feel like I was there in the cab with you.

It even makes me feel nervous for you.

Keep it up KRviator

It brings back many many memories for me
when I first "got on the road" in 1980
and my first coal train Enfield to Port Kembla.
( 2 jumbo's & a 44 class in the shafts then with only 2249 tonne.)

Man!! Shocked

86 wagons & 10,000 tonne.

"You must have nerves of steel" and still on your "L" plates.
but I know you have it all under control
and probably a good driver (or D.T) next to you!!

It is GREAT you keep a record/memory of what you
are doing.

KEEP IT UP --I can nearly visualise it-like being in the cab with you.

I think one difference we had to do then was once we had the minimum
reduction--we then gave it a normal brake reduction or application and then let it go;
Stops any sticky brakes near the back or middle of the train.

I used to watch them on diesel passenger trains though
most of the applications were always minimum and then let it go
to keep the track speed of 115kph.
or min. then release; then min. again; hold it and more reduction to stop at a platform with diesel in the "right spot" the front of the platform.

Never drove those trains though.
Just coming home pass. I would always get "up the front"
on the Southern Aurora or Spirit of Progress
from Goulburn to Sydney.

You don't realise how much the diesels do bounce around while doing 115kph going down a dip.

Keep up the good work.
I am enjoying it. Smile

4458; Feb 1961 (same D.O.B.'s)
and we are both still alive
(sort of !!)

Botany Freight Corp Yes Utopia.