Help needed with modelling SAR Narrow Gauge

NSWRTM123 · Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:25 pm

At present I have a decent amount of Fleischmann HO Profi track and want to model an SAR narrow gauge. What scale should I use? Also how can I get the ballast to look like that of the Eyre Peninsula lines. This is what the track looks like:

I am try to represent something like this:

Note photos are not my own.

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David Peters · Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:32 pm

Ballast in a lot of places on the old SAR NG track was minimal to none in a lot of places. It was really only later on that ballast was laid under some tracks, some NG trips were that slow that the slow boat to China would beat them, especially on the Eyre Peninsular system. The ballast differed though in different area's as the Northern NG track was far better than that of Pt Lincoln. Ash was used a lot as ballast on most NG track! Cool

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NSWRTM123 · Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:49 pm

What I am asking about is what scale would 16.5mm gauge track represent 3'6" gauge track and how can I make this trake with 'Main Line' ballast look like an ash ballasted pioneer line around 1927, but still, thanks for that useful bit of prototype information.

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hanovale · Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:27 pm

If I understand the question correctly, 3'6" scales out to roughly 16.5mm in S scale (1/64).

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NSWRTM123 · Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 5:37 pm

Thank You hanovale.
What is the scale ratio, e.g. HO= 3.5mm to 1 foot.

Don't Make 'em like they used to
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Alcos Rule!!!!!

pjknife · Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 5:59 pm

As hanovale said, S scale is 1:64 (HO scale is 1:87). S scale is defined as that ratio, not with a "mm to the ft" measurement.

In narrow gauge station yards (especially in the early years) the SAR specified that the sleepers were to be covered with gravel or cinders. This was to assist railway staff in walking around the yard. So you could bury the Fleischmann track and be prototypical. Outside of station yards though, as David said, most n.g. main lines were unballasted or had minimal ballast and hence the sleepers were very visible. The problem with using HO "standard gauge" track for this is that the sleepers don't protrude far enough outside the rails, and are spaced too closely. But if that doesn't bother you, go ahead and use it anyway.

Some details on SAR narrow gauge sleeper lengths and spacing can be found at http://www.minnipa.au.com/mdltrack.html.

Peter
Minnipa and the Port Lincoln Division
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benscaro · Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 6:00 pm

The scale of S is 1:64 or 3/16" to 1'.

Two problems.

One. That track looks like nothing on the SAR narrow gauge, period. The sleepers are too short, too closely spaced and obviously cannot be altered given they are molded onto the trackbed. The heavy ballast shoulder is also completely wrong for SAR narrow gauge.

Two. SAR narrow gauge modellers don't model in S so you'd be pretty much on your own and have to make everything yourself.

Those who model it use either HOn3 or HOn3 1/2 to take advantage of the many broad gauge models in HO which can be converted.

My advice would be to sell it and buy something that looks right-eg Shinohara or Peco 12mm track, and model in HO narrow gauge.

Ben

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NSWRTM123 · Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 6:54 pm

appleby · Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 6:59 pm

benscaro · Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:27 pm

allan · Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 8:47 pm

I've got to agree with Ben. Truth is, with a budget that limited, the SAR narrow gauge will just have to wait. If you must start now, begin with a track plan in H03.5 and concentrate on building the buildings that you will need. These, at least, can be made with found (free) materials, and the skills learned here will stand you in good stead when you can afford to begin building rollingstock and locomotives.

I did say "building rollingstock and locomotives", as, apart from the Powerline 830 class locomotive shell, everything will have to be built because there is very little available otherwise...

Allan Lees

NSWRTM123 · Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 9:52 am

I have actually checked the dimensions of the fleischmann track and it matches up reasonably well to the dimensions of the sleepers on the SAR's 'light lines', which had a sleeper spacing of about 1'9", dependant on location and cost.
The lack of kits isn't going to stop me, as I am interested in improving my scratchbuilding skills. I am not going to try a Brill or Fageol railcar, as they are outside of my era of the 1925-1928 period. This period has been selected to allow me make the fleet smaller and allow use of stock that is easier to scratchbuild.

Don't Make 'em like they used to
3801 limited and NSWRTM Forever
Alcos Rule!!!!!

LaidlayM · Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 2:31 pm

If you want to model SAR NG, improve your modelling skils and minimise cost why not start with soldering some track track together rather than using commercial stuff which probably looks nothing like real track?

Start with second hand (even damaged) Peco N scale flex track, remove rail from sleepers and chuck sleepers in bin. Use PCB sleepers and start soldering to 12mm whatever gauge you choose, (remember to file a insulation gap in the sleeper surface.

If you want to stick to S scale on 16.5 just do the same thing (Peco N scale rail and PCB sleepers).

Where you will save significant money is the turnouts.

Mark

Mark Laidlay - One of those not fussed either way about 3801

409 · Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:55 pm

Either that or you could use my method which involves second hand rails (ironically, nearly all of the Eyre Peninsula system was built with second hand rail) and balsa wood. Lay down the balsa wood sleepers in a row like you would on the real thing and then get some track nails and spike down one rail. You only need to spike down the rail once every four or five sleepers. The rail will be held down very snuggly that way.

If you break a few sleepers, no need to worry, most of the Eyre Peninsula sleepers (in SAR days especially) were pretty much rotten. You can either use the rotten sleeper for effect or just bury it under dirt. Considering that the Kapinnie line in the 1960s was laid with 40lb rail (some made of iron rather then steel) and a certain section had 30cm missing from the rail head, you can get away with a lot of poor track!

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robertc · Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:44 pm

As you have been told S scale is an entirely non-metric scale; however when asked to compare to other scales I tell people it is about 4.75mm to the foot.
Sn3 ½ (also referred to as Sn42 and Sn3.5) is a common scale/gauge ratio for modeling 3’6” gauge railways used by those wanting to take advantage of the many 16.5mm gauge items available. This is the most common scale for those modeling New Zealand and WAGR prototypes, it is also widely used by Qld modelers and some modeling Tasmanian and South African (just to name a few).
As you have been told there is no sensible way to make that track look like SAR 3’6”. If you wish to model in Sn42 go ahead and have fun; however just remember you will have little commercial support unless there is something produced for modelers in another state that also was used in South Australia.
Perhaps to add to some earlier advice you may be better advised to scratch build your structures and stock in HO scale in readiness for the time when you have some of the necessary money required to indulge in this hobby. In the interim you may be able to run the bogie stock you build on standard gauge bogies until the day when you can afford the narrow gauge track, mechanisms and running gear; thus making use of the track you have available now.
To answer another of your questions – no, not all 3’6” gauge equipment is narrower than standard gauge. In fact some is much larger than some standard gauge railway equipment.
Regards
Bob Comerford