Help needed with modelling SAR Narrow Gauge

allan · Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 5:50 pm

I hope that you've not told too many... 4.75mm to the foot is rather closer!

Allan Lees

NSWRTM123 · Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 5:50 pm

Thanks for the tips everyone.

Also, I have checked the dimensions on a number of SAR EPD goods wagons, and these scale out as around 7' for goods stock, which equals out about the same witdth as standard gauge stock in HO, so it appears I will not have to scratchbuild everything. Razz

BTW does anyone have a diagram to show how 'stub' points are laid out and how common they were on the Eyre Peninsula

Don't Make 'em like they used to
3801 limited and NSWRTM Forever
Alcos Rule!!!!!

David Peters · Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 7:20 pm

Some 4 wheeled stock was quite small in dimensions and some were hand me down from broad gauge, the YY trucks and XX trucks were like this, they were still the same size as a broad gauge vehicle, but had the W iron's shifted in on new underframe parts to bolt them too and NG wheelsets put on them, the buffers and couplings were removed and replaced with standard NG couplers at a slight lower height.

IF you use HO scale, HOn3.5 or HOn3 you can do the same conversions on some wagons, you can modify some from SEM kits, their open trucks, insulated and U louvre vans can all be modified into something that closely resembles ex SAR NG stock!

By stub points I assume you mean those movable rail switches that SAR made, as far as I know they were only on the Glencoe line in the SE of the state, I have never heard reference to them on the Eyre Peninsular system, Peter Knife would be the better person to comment here! Cool

National Railway Museum member.
The opinions expressed by my me in these posts is not the opinion of the N.R.M. and should not be construed as such.
Ferroequinologist and Microferroequinologist.
Photosite http://davidpeters950.fotopic.net

409 · Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 10:50 pm

If you are looking for a way to personalise your 830 on your Eyre Peninsula layout (trust me, a few of them are a must), take a look at this photo and especially the bogie area.

The workshops at Port Lincoln ran out of narrow gauge framed bogies so they simply got some spare broad gauge ones and fitted extra length axles on a narrow gauge wheel set to fit. You can aquire HOn3 or HOn3.5 DL531 mechs from Hollywood Foundry to fit in a Powerline body.

2008 BOGIE AWARD WINNER - Best Contribution to Model Railways

LINK TO YOUTUBE PROFILE

"I'd use an 830 for my respirator!"

robertc · Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 11:21 pm

Yes, approx. 4.75mm = 1 foot not 3.75mm. Quite correct; I didn't notice the typo!
regards
Bob Comerford

qredge · Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 3:24 am

In Qld we have Sn3.5 modellers and until recently had limited trade support and we survived.
With S you can use HO mechs and track which are cheaper 2nd hand
You could lay your track and cover totally with dirt ballast so cannot see the sleepers and it will not matter what the sleeper spacing is
I would suggest try scratch building a wagon or two in Styrene to run behind your hornby locos and see how you feel-if you like the building them then use your current track and ballast over it-make buildings to 1/64 scale and use temporary locos until you gain confidence to modify a loco for power -eventually you will have a S scale SAR layout and all the while running trains.
Maybe some of the S QLD and WA stuff might be close to some of your wagons etc?

pjknife · Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:13 pm

David Peters · Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:20 pm

SAR stock was very antique looking on NG even right at the end, so anything too modern will look out of place, back when you want to set your layout in there would mostly be 4 wheeled stock with only brakevans and passenger stock being bogie, there were a few bogie freight cars though, so you are going to need to make a lot of 4 wheeled wagons of various sizes.

As I said the 4 wheeled SAR stock that was built for the NG was quite dimitive in size, and then they started to convert ex BG 4 wheeled stock which was huge up against what they had previously on the NG! You might find underframes etc that may be useful from other states and a few odds and ends but overall you are going to be doing a lot of scratchbuilding to get even a basic train.

There may be some locomotives that could be done this way as a SAR Y class 2-6-0 type has run in both of these states that was mentioned, so you might get something for your motive power! Cool

National Railway Museum member.
The opinions expressed by my me in these posts is not the opinion of the N.R.M. and should not be construed as such.
Ferroequinologist and Microferroequinologist.
Photosite http://davidpeters950.fotopic.net

NSWRTM123 · Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 4:36 pm

for those who are interested, this has details on the rolling stock of the Eyre Peninsula
http://www.peninsula-pioneer.com/
It gives a comprehensive description of rolling stock and motive power on the railway, including the numbers of each carriage and it's period on the railway. Thanks for all the info everyone.

Don't Make 'em like they used to
3801 limited and NSWRTM Forever
Alcos Rule!!!!!

benscaro · Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 7:10 pm

About the only S scale narrow gauge South Australian vehicle I’ve ever seen modelled was a Whyalla Tramway water tank wagon built out of wood. Think it was in AMRM back in the 80s. However it would surprise me if there weren't at least a couple of SAR modellers who tried Sn3 ½ , probably from the 1960s when nothing much SAR was available in H0.

Ben

President, Bring Back Rail to Yinkanie Committee

Hmmm . . . why isn't there an emoticon for schadenfreude ?

1447: The Year China Put a Knight Templar on Mars.

pjknife · Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:48 pm

NSWRTM123 · Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 1:31 pm

Westrail_Q_301 · Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:17 pm

If you are looking for SAR locomotives in S scale, ALYN Models does an ASG (Australian Standard Garratt) as a brass kit for around $1000. Also, RailWest models in WA does a kit of the WAGR G class which is a exact copy of the SAR Y class.

NSWRTM123 · Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 6:42 pm

Thanks Westrail_Q_301. Might look into the WAGR G/SAR Y Class, but I think the ASG would be a bit gratuitous for the traffic levels on my branch line.

Don't Make 'em like they used to
3801 limited and NSWRTM Forever
Alcos Rule!!!!!

benscaro · Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:08 pm

NSWRTM123, an ASG also doesn't exactly fit the 1925-28 timescale, quite apart from the fact that they never worked the Eyre Peninsula. ASGs only worked Peterborough Dvn for about 18 months in the early 50s.

Peter, I think Nic D once showed me an Sn3 1/2 Yy he had built, so there has been the odd excursion. I imagine getting a correct chassis for an 830 in S cannot have been easy.

Just to be wary of one thing with S though.

One real problem with scales that use a commercial track gauge and mechs to enable modelling of a narrower gauge in a larger scale, eg, S and TT, is that not everything in narrow gauge is smaller, often it's just the same as broad gauge but set to a narrower gauge. For example EP 830s have the same huge 3'4" wheels as they do on broad gauge.

This can present problems. For example many SAR Pt Lincoln Dvn wagons converted from broad gauge, eg Yy, Yx, XX, Yh, have the same diameter wheels as they did on broad gauge, eg 3'0 5/8" or 3'0 1/4". Getting wheels of that diameter- 7.75mm in TT - is tricky. Steam Era do a 7.5mm spoked wheel and the 3mm Society do an 8mm one so I may be in luck.

I think an S scale modeller may find him or herself having similar issues - there's a fair bit of S scale modelling in the UK so spoked wheels are available here . . . but they are not likely to be cheap.

Ben

President, Bring Back Rail to Yinkanie Committee

Hmmm . . . why isn't there an emoticon for schadenfreude ?

1447: The Year China Put a Knight Templar on Mars.