Help needed with modelling SAR Narrow Gauge

qredge · Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:37 pm

here is a photo of scratch Sn3.5 track using code 70 rail and cut basswood sleepers with track glued with pliobond cement

[img]http://www.flickr.com/photos/22202990@N08/2583345142/[/img]

You could use the rail from the profi track and lay it on your own sleepers and would not cost you much

NSWRTM123 · Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 6:23 pm

Thanks for all the info and tips everyone. BTW does anyone know the livery carried by rolling stock on the EPD in the 1925-1928 period.

Don't Make 'em like they used to
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David Peters · Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 10:37 pm

I imagine it would have been the dark grey livery with black underframes etc, this was standard SAR colour scheme for wagons at that time, the lighter grey only came in during the 1960's from memory. I could be wrong so do not take this as gospel! Cool

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NSWRTM123 · Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 10:14 am

Thanks, David Peters. What about departmental stock? I have photos showing workmen's sleepers painter all over green, green with cream window band, light grey. Which one is correct for my era.

Don't Make 'em like they used to
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David Peters · Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 2:57 pm

On broad gauge works vans were painted dark grey as per the goods stock I think. Car number 3 at the NRM was a narrow gauge works car and showed traces of dark grey paint on it as well. I know it was painted light grey when we got it!

All over green was usually for brakevans only some on broad and some on NG at Port Lincoln, green with cream window bands was passenger car colours mostly broad gauge but some also on NG again at Port LIncoln.

Light grey was only used on wagons for photo purposes back then, it showed the detail better in a black and white photo, one wagon would be painted and fully lettered, then photgraphed and then taken back to the paint shop to be painted its proper colour, just a warning as many people fall into this trap using old SAR photos of rollingstock.

I should add though that through the years various pieces of rollingstock were modified to other purposes without being repainted externally, so you could see departmental vans painted green and cream, these would be relay vans, used by crews, when this working ceased most were then converted to something else and sometimes again not repainted in the process. All SAR departmental type cars got repainted bright orange but this was only in the 1960's or there abouts, after AN painted them white!

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allan · Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 4:38 pm

AFAIK, the cream and green colours did not come into play on the SAR until 1936. Prior to this all coachingstock and brakevans were painted dark red (except for the "Blue Brakevans"). Goods rollingstock was painted in a very dark grey with black underframes, excepting reefers which, I think, were white.

From the early 1950s until mid 1963, goods rollingstock was painted blue-grey overall, except for those wagons fitted with passenger-type bogies that were run on passenger trains, where the underframes remained black. Some, but not all, of these were painted in cream and green to match the coachingstock. I am unaware of any wagons on Eyre Pen. that fit into this group.

Allan Lees

NSWRTM123 · Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 8:50 pm

Thanks guys. Anyone know a supplier of cheap HO 4wheel underframes?

Don't Make 'em like they used to
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David Peters · Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 9:31 pm

The cheapest HO underframes that I know of are usually Lima HO 4 wheeled British stock, these can be rewheeled with scale disc or spoke wheels from SEM and with a bit of surgery can be quite useful to you!

The OO versions are might big for most small trucks like this! Cool

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allan · Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 9:34 pm

For Sn3.5? I suspect not. At least, not good ones.

Even fair H0 underframes are not cheap, and those that are cheap are not really good!

Probably the best value will be the SEM I wagon underframes.

http://home.waterfront.net.au/~sem/bits.htm

Allan Lees

David Peters · Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 9:49 pm

Allan all he said was HO underframes, nothing more, if he wants HO scale narrow gauge opens then these Lima 4 wheelers fit the bill nearly perfectly even in overall size, the only real problem is the side frames need narrowing, but NG sized wheels can be mounted on normal HO gauge axles to get started with!

One wagon type on the SAR NG was almost a direct copy of a British open wagon, these were the wooden X class open wagons and the model as bought is pretty close to it! Cool

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NSWRTM123 · Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 10:47 am

Actually David Peters, I wat the underframes because, after cmparing dimensions they are near enough to represent the narrow gauge wagon underframes under the XX, YX and YY types, regauged from broad gauge. I plan to build balsa wood bodies and attachthem to the underframes. I suppose I could kitbash the X wagons from a british open wagon. Idea

maybe one of the british cattle vans could be kitbashed to represent a K class cattle van. Also, does anyone have details on the M class sheep vans. thanks.

Don't Make 'em like they used to
3801 limited and NSWRTM Forever
Alcos Rule!!!!!

David Peters · Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 4:51 pm

The underframes under all those wagons that you listed simply reused all the W irons etc moved in to suit the narrow gauge and had an extra section of steel place inwards of the broad gauge side bearers to take them, the only alteration other than that was NG wheelsets and couplers and on some wagons strengthener pieces across the doors at a 45 degree angle!

SEM underframes would be the best bet for these as all the pieces are easier to work with as a kit, they also run better as well! Cool

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The opinions expressed by my me in these posts is not the opinion of the N.R.M. and should not be construed as such.
Ferroequinologist and Microferroequinologist.
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qredge · Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 8:19 pm

(In Sn3.5 scale)

For QR wagons a Bachmann 5 plank wooden wagon (one model no 37-051) which cost me $10-12 at my local hobby shop converts to a QR single door F wagon as a close enough

It is long enough 14ft, wide enough 6ft and correct wheelbase 7ft 6inches

Height of bottom of Chassis to top of sides is 3ft6

The drop door is 3ft wide instead of 5ft but and the brake shoes are inboard instead on the outside of the axles

Wheels are 2ft 6 in diameter instead of 2ft2

But for the cost and a coat of paint and change of couplers I have a quick ready to run QR wooden wagon

For the fussy people who cant stand the narrow door-just put a tarp over the top

This wagon could be close to an EPD wagon I think

allan · Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 10:48 pm

M class sheep van. 10'6 wheelbase, 19'6 over headstocks. End loading, through swing doors with drop down walkways. Apart from the roof and the floors it's mostly air, with an awful lot of steel bars keeping the roof and floors apart. Looks like a bugger of a wagon to scratchbuild!

Allan Lees

NSWRTM123 · Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 8:59 am

Any photos/diagrams

Don't Make 'em like they used to
3801 limited and NSWRTM Forever
Alcos Rule!!!!!