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Bwana
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Jul 21, 2003
Last Visited: Dec 1, 2008
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Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 6:20 am
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Hang on, no probs saying "root", but "brothel" is a problem?
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Speed
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Mar 19, 2007
Last Visited: Dec 1, 2008
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Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 4:55 pm
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Whether the train is cancelled or it just skips some stops, it's important that passengers on platforms waiting for the train be informed of the change. If it's missing stops, passengers on the train should be given advance notice so they can alight before it skips stops.
If it's necessary for a service to miss stops to avoid widespread network disruption or to avoid cancellation of a subsequent service, some passengers will still reach their destinations sooner than they would were the same service cancelled. Those passengers will find the skipping of some stops more satisfactory than a simple cancellation.
Clearly, the stops missed should be chosen to minimise the inconvenience. If a suburban train stops at Central, missing Redfern should not be greatly inconvenient. Plenty of other trains can be caught for the last stretch. Missing Redfern but stopping at Macdonaldtown would however provoke much dissatisfaction.
Last edited by Speed on Wed Aug 27, 2008 12:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Bwana
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Jul 21, 2003
Last Visited: Dec 1, 2008
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Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 5:55 pm
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It's also important that customers are advised as soon as possible so they can make alternative arrangements if it is more advantageous to them. The number of times I stood on platform 1 at Sutherland, having just gotten off the coastie, watching the up cronulla train leave AS they announce the following Waterfall (all station) train has been significantly delayed/cancelled is ridiculous... I lived in Oatley at the time, but could easily walk from Mortdale IF I HAD KNOWN THAT THE OATLEY TRAIN WASN'T COMING. For the frequency of this occurring, it must have been that they didn't want to announce it until the cronulla train had left. Peeved me off endlessly.
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cdinoz
Station Master
Joined: Dec 18, 2007
Last Visited: Nov 19, 2008
Location: Under the Thumb
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Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 11:50 pm
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I used to love the Central Coast trains "This Train is Running approximately 1 hour late"....
...which by any normal persons reasoning back in 2001 and 2002 would actually be running ON TIME as the timetable invariably ran every hour from Newwy to Central, and every intermediary half hour was a Wyong to Central service....
At least by the time the thing arrived at Gosford "1 hour late" the stopping pattern was identical - so the announcement was irrelevant.
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theanimal
Train Controller
Joined: Nov 30, 2005
Last Visited: Dec 1, 2008
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Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 3:15 am
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OK seen all of the armchair experts have their say on late running of tains, now the question is:
how would YOU restore a late running train to on time running, I have heard that you do not like transpositions or short terminations so what other answer is there?
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TheLoadedDog
El Sombrero!
Joined: Jun 19, 2003
Last Visited: Sep 28, 2008
Location: Macquarie Fields NSW
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Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 7:18 am
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| theanimal wrote: | OK seen all of the armchair experts have their say on late running of tains, now the question is:
how would YOU restore a late running train to on time running, I have heard that you do not like transpositions or short terminations so what other answer is there? |
You don't. Simple.
What you do is stuff like transpose services when you really have to in order not to have cascading chaos for the rest of the peak, but you DON'T skip stops, transpose, or anything like it in order to cook the books, or to protect executive bonuses.
Humphrey! We're leaving!
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borosa
Chief Train Controller
Joined: Jan 11, 2007
Last Visited: Nov 20, 2008
Location: Sydney
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Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:07 pm
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It's never happened to me, but by Jesus i'd be p1ssed if it did! I'd love for a Transit to come checking tickets after it skipped a stop too... 
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dirge
Chief Train Controller
Joined: May 20, 2004
Last Visited: Oct 14, 2008
Location: All to Royal National Park
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Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:37 pm
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| theanimal wrote: | OK seen all of the armchair experts have their say on late running of tains, now the question is:
how would YOU restore a late running train to on time running, I have heard that you do not like transpositions or short terminations so what other answer is there? |
I'm of a similar to opinion to TLD™ - avoid it if at all possible.
If running changes to stopping patterns are necessary, I'd try do something like this (example - down services, after Hurstville):
Cronulla service, running 10 mins late. Announce at or before Hurstville that next stop is Sutherland. Let the Penshurst/Mortdale/Jannali commuters jump off to hop onto a trailing all to Waterfall service. You make up about 3 minutes there. Do the same thing on the way back into town, save about 4 minutes (since you don't have to allow time for everyone to get off suddenly), allowing commuters to change to ex-Waterfall at Sutherland. The other 3 minutes should be easy to make up at change of end.
Asking those with multiple options (such as the three stations listed above) to adapt is preferable to asking those travelling past Sutherland to wait 30 mins for the next Cronulla service. Obviously I'm not counting the single-track bottlenecks on the Cronulla line, but you should get the general idea. Put out those who have other options first, if at all. Try not to screw those who have no other option.
Most importantly - and this is really my main beef with Cityrail's reactions to unexpected situations - keeping the commuters informed and trying to minimise their inconvenience should be just as important as sticking to timetable, if not more. Public transport exists to move people around, not to serve the career goals of behinds the scenes management & politicians who want to be able to churn out convenient statistics.
Most commuters will accept that things can and will go wrong, and as long as they feel like the powers that be care about their inconvenience, they'll be understanding, etc. Sadly the current state government cares more about spinning away poor performance than it does about actually improving performance (and the underlying reasons for the poor performance). To be fair, there _are_ infrastructure improvements in the pipeline, but for every duplicated Cronulla line there's a cancelled second Harbour Crossing.
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TW10
Station Master
Joined: Sep 06, 2007
Last Visited: Nov 24, 2008
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Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:41 am
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| Bwana wrote: | | It's also important that customers are advised as soon as possible so they can make alternative arrangements if it is more advantageous to them. The number of times I stood on platform 1 at Sutherland, having just gotten off the coastie, watching the up cronulla train leave AS they announce the following Waterfall (all station) train has been significantly delayed/cancelled is ridiculous... I lived in Oatley at the time, but could easily walk from Mortdale IF I HAD KNOWN THAT THE OATLEY TRAIN WASN'T COMING. For the frequency of this occurring, it must have been that they didn't want to announce it until the cronulla train had left. Peeved me off endlessly. |
That is the major problem with CityRail - customer information.
A few years back, Parramatta would wait until after the Granville - Strathfield - City train had left before advising the next won't be stopping at Lidcombe "for today only". Too bad there was a connection from Granville that meant you wouldn't have to wait >30 minutes at Lidcombe for the Banko or Liverpool via Rego.
Other big no nos are:
* skip stops for one service then the following one is also significantly late (long service gaps and lost connections x2) and
* the worst in my opinon is to "cancel for today only" and then for inconvenienced passengers to see the train roll through +/- 1 minute of advertised with passengers on board.
Oh, and don't get me started on the sudden platform changes at Lidcombe in the pm so that 1 or 2 minutes delay is avoided. Not a hue issue but the fact that the PA on platform 4 doesn't work at the eastern end is (speakers are there but none function since work on the useless platform 5 started).
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Blackadder
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Aug 06, 2004
Last Visited: Dec 2, 2008
Location: The only underground station where you need a umbrella
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Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:06 am
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| TW10 wrote: |
That is the major problem with CityRail - customer information.
A few years back, Parramatta would wait until after the Granville - Strathfield - City train had left before advising the next won't be stopping at Lidcombe "for today only". Too bad there was a connection from Granville that meant you wouldn't have to wait >30 minutes at Lidcombe for the Banko or Liverpool via Rego.
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Could be a case of the station not having information passed on from the signal box, or train control before the limited stops train departed.
Here or there
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Maikha
Not a gunzel
Joined: Sep 06, 2003
Last Visited: Nov 22, 2008
Location: Wagga Wagga, NSW
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Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:38 am
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The only time this has ever happened to me was in 2001, when I was on my way to Belmore one Saturday afternoon, and changed for a Banko train which was running 25 minutes late. They still stopped at Bankstown for the 10 minute layover or something, but without announcing to the passengers at all (And I mean Station Staff, Guard, et al), we ran express right through to Campsie! 
Then the frustrating changover to go back to Belmore, comprised of another 25minute wait, as after we skipped Belmore, the Down train had passed! 
However, in saying all this, said incident was 7 years ago. Alot has changed, and in my regular commuting since then (Penrith - City - Penrith), the only dramas I ever really had either involved fatalities or bomb scares (Oh man, who could forget the left-behind shopping bag at Blacktown?).
Cheers
Maikha Ly
The Intercity Platform & Valve Gear Media!
http://www.theintercityplatform.com/
Comments made are that of my own, and do not reflect those of organisations mentioned. |
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TheLoadedDog
El Sombrero!
Joined: Jun 19, 2003
Last Visited: Sep 28, 2008
Location: Macquarie Fields NSW
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Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:35 pm
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The ordeals people will go to just to get to Belmore.
Of course, it's always worth it. 
Humphrey! We're leaving!
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borosa
Chief Train Controller
Joined: Jan 11, 2007
Last Visited: Nov 20, 2008
Location: Sydney
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Bwana
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Jul 21, 2003
Last Visited: Dec 1, 2008
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Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 5:26 pm
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| Blackadder wrote: | | TW10 wrote: |
That is the major problem with CityRail - customer information.
A few years back, Parramatta would wait until after the Granville - Strathfield - City train had left before advising the next won't be stopping at Lidcombe "for today only". Too bad there was a connection from Granville that meant you wouldn't have to wait >30 minutes at Lidcombe for the Banko or Liverpool via Rego.
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Could be a case of the station not having information passed on from the signal box, or train control before the limited stops train departed. |
Could be, but it's a hell of a coincidence how the information always seemed to become availabe just as the train before was pulling out. Too much of a coincidence for me.
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tbohlsennswssrg
Train Controller
Joined: Dec 19, 2005
Last Visited: Dec 1, 2008
Location: Roseville, Sydney, NSW
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Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 6:48 pm
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One time at gordon they said it would be going DIRECT to north sydney, I thought it was a bad call, but I ended up at North Sydney and I had to change trains to get back to Chatswood (which is were I was going).
Worse it was in the afternoon peak and this was when I was coming back from Primary School 
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Luckily for me, I wasn't wearing my headphones, though the blank looks on people's faces around me would have alerted me that something wasn't right on this particular day!
