Policy on late running trains.

vendettachild · Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:16 am

This morning wet weather affected services along Western and North Shore lines. I caught the city bound train from Mt Druitt 10:17 and the train services seemed normal enough. Then an announcement comes along, saying the train won't stop at Westmead, Parramatta and Harris Park. Mind you the train was already 10 minutes late. I thought that was OK, I will get to Redfern sooner. Arrive at Lidcombe, another announcement train will not stop at Redfern. Changed trains at Strathfield, got on the next train. A few minutes later, man announces that the train also won't stop at Redern! Despite all the indicator boards saying so.

I've been on late trains during my time, and they always stop at their designated stops. Not stopping at Westmead, Parramatta, Harris Park and Redfern, now that is out of this world!

Anyways my question is can Cityrail do this? Can they decide on what stations to sail through when the train is late? What can/can't they do regarding late trains?

42101 · Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:20 am

They run the system they can do whatever they like to get services back close to normal running which means transposing trains to get them into place for their next run so as not to hold up yet more customers on other services and lines.

Banned

Tsubame800 · Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 1:01 am

Greg wasn't another reason (though i think this was false) that they do station skipping in order to make sure that the crews don't go over the shifts or something like that?

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TheLoadedDog · Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 1:20 am

Many of you may possibly remember my infamously long thread of 2004 that was a big anti-Cityrail screed. For those who don't, 2004 was a low point in Cityrail ontime running, and it got to the point that I was leaving home at 11:30 in Liverpool to arrive on time at work in Alexandria at 14:00. Yes, five hours travelling per day within the metro area (and it wasn't like I was doing Emu Plains - Cronulla either!). This was to allow for at least one (possibly two) cancelled trains, and another very late one.

The crunch point (that made me write to ministers, premiers, etc) came the day my Livo-City via Bankstown train was diverted without warning via Strathfield. I ended up about three hours worth of travelling time home to home and without having gone to work - I had to call in sick, because I would have been so late.

So I rang up and complained.

The official response was that the train was diverted so it could arrive at Central on time (it was already very late). I asked the Railcorp drone on the phone, "So what about the people travelling to intermediate stations, where the train didn't just arrive late, but it didn't arrive AT ALL?"

He had no answer, but he also won, because I gave up my fight. It was pointless.

Cityrail will sacrifice its intermediate customers so long as end to end running is upheld.

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Bwana · Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 7:03 am

This goes back to the same flawed idea that NSWGR have had from day 1 - that everyone wants to go to the city, and screw anyone who doesn't. This comes out pretty much anywhere it could:

- How many cross-city lines are there, or cross-city trains? Back in the 80's there was one train a week, and then only over summer, from Penrith to Cronulla. In the 90's they played with Sydenham-Bankstown-Regent's Park-Lidcombe loop-Parra-Blacktown. There were about 4 peak hour trains. Next timetable they were gone. Then they spent literally millions on a Merrylands-Harris Park link - which now gets 2 trains a day each way.
- Even within a line, poor connections for intermediate stations. Wanna get a train from Unanderra to Fairy Meadow? Fine. Sit at Wollongong Station for 50 minutes waiting for your connection. Fairy Meadow - Sydney? Of course sir, 4 minute change at Thirroul for you.
- Poor connections at interchanges. Coming from Carlingford, 3 minute wait for a city train. 27 minute wait for a train to Granville, during which time at least one train will go past that stops all stations from Lidcombe to it's destination APART from Clyde. Same is true at Sydenham, Wolli Creek or Granville (although those people should really have waited for their twice-daily cumberland line train anyway Rolling Eyes

)
- Ticketing - Want a travelpass for your trip from, say, Taren Point to Sutherland (7.2km)? You'll need a pink travelpass, $50 a week thanks. Taren Point - City (24.3km - ie 3.5 times the distance)? A green pass for you, $43 thanks.

To me this is the second biggest failure of Railcorp, behind the "Oh, your train is of fire or submerged? Train crew don't realise or are incapacitated? Well you're screwed then, because if we let you save your own life you'll be too stupid to avoid being hit by another train" Policy.

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Maikha · Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 11:41 am

Gareth · Beginner Joined: Jul 17, 2007 Last Visited: Nov 29, 2008

I was on a Bankstown line train once that was delayed at Central due to a signal failure or some such. It was decided to stop only at Sydenham and Bankstown, then all stations to the destination (iirc Lidcombe). So the run was useless to most people on the line and was basically just a positioning run for the next service.

tsgsjm · Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 7:31 pm

1979 · Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 10:40 pm

A few weeks ago there was a door problem with the train from Kiama so it had to stop at Heathcote for about 20 mins in the arvo peak. So to get the trains back on time. They transposed a train from Waterfall to go All to Hurstville then Redfern.

I have been on a few transpodes trains and thats the only way that there going to get there on time. So some people do have to wait.

Do Do Do Attention Passengers, the 9:17 Empty Train via the Eastern Subburbs and Illawarra line will now depart from platform 4. Please make your way to platform 4.

borosa · Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 11:42 pm

Reminds me of the saying... "Couldn't organise a P1ssup in a brewery!"

dirge · Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 12:31 am

I think TLD™ has nailed the real problem with this policy. It's not so much whether or not Cityrail/Railcorp switch things around, rather how they treat their customers when doing so.

Poor communication such as not informing passengers and therefore not giving them time to alight and readjust their travel, is always going to make transposition a BAD move, from a PR point of view.

I'm on this forum because I'm a commuter, not a gunzel. I've been on transposed trains, and I've been on delayed trains. I don't mind so long as I can see that those making the decisions are trying to ensure that I'm put out as little as possible. If I have to get off and change, I'm okay with that. If my station is skipped without warning, I'm NOT okay with that.

ozibob · Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 2:37 pm

How else do they get their on time running so high, and the bosses bonuses for on time running. All timings thru central.

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tbohlsennswssrg · Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 6:28 pm

Remember on time running figures are based from sydney central and are the following delays:

Metro Area: +- 5 minutes
I't'c'ty Area: +- 6 minutes

I't'c'ty = Intercity

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zordmaker · Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 11:20 pm

All I can say is that in the early '90s at Traffic trouble this would have been an absolute hanging offence. Stop trains short of their destinations and turn them back - yes. Cancel services altogether - yes. But NEVER, EVER skip advertised stops. EVER Not EVER EVER, no matter how disorganised the service became. In times of extreme dissaray the opposite became true. As some trains failed or were cancelled, other expresses then became all stops.

I would never have believed it was happening until I saw it for myself first hand in 2005 on a random trip home from the city. And there wasn't even an incident. Not even so much as a "trains are running late and out of timetabel order" declaration. Jyst a train full of passengers who suddenly found themselves tens of kilometers further from their destinations than they planned without any warning whatsoever despite these being advertised stops on previous platforms.

And, as I say (for me) was "the day the music truly died". I don't trust Cityrail anymore since, for anything, ever. I now only use it for gunzelling, never for getting me somewhere i wnat to or have to be.

zordmaker

Maikha · Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 11:41 pm