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alstom_888m
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Aug 26, 2007
Last Visited: Dec 23, 2008
Location: Craigieburn Suburban Railway Line, Melbourne
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| alstom_888m |
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Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:05 am
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About bloody time, good to see the Feds are helping too.
| The Age website 16/9/08 wrote: | Notorious crossing to be removed
Clay Lucas
September 16, 2008
VICTORIA'S most dangerous level crossing — which the State Government has left largely untouched since coming to power in 1999 — is set to be removed in a complex engineering project to be carried out just months before the 2010 state election.
Engineers Parsons Brinckerhoff last week won a contract from VicRoads and Connex to work on a grade separation, a crossing that uses an underpass or overpass, to fix the notorious Nunawading intersection, just near the corner of Springvale and Whitehorse roads.
The Rudd Government has so far given $1.5 million to the project, and has promised $80 million.
The project is likely to start in January 2010 and cost about $120 million.
The grade separation will take about a month to complete and will be highly disruptive for drivers and rail commuters, who will be forced onto buses while work is under way.
More than 125,000 cars cross the intersection each day, and traffic queues and delays are made worse by boom gate "down time" at the railway crossing.
A spokeswoman for Public Transport Minister Lynne Kosky yesterday confirmed the Government was working with the Federal Government and Whitehorse Council on a study for the grade separation. She could not confirm a timetable for the project.
The intersection was also yesterday voted Melbourne's most congested driving "red spot", in the Royal Automobile Club of Victoria's Redspot Survey.
The survey of 6500 road users pinpointed 2500 intersections across the state that drivers believed were extremely congested. The Nunawading crossing was named the worst congestion point in the state for the second time in the survey, last published in 2006.
The lack of action by the State Government on that intersection and others was "exasperating", the RACV's group's chief engineer, Peter Daly, said.
Opposition Leader Ted Baillieu also hit out at the delay. "It has been nearly nine years and they just haven't done anything," Mr Baillieu said.
The Liberals pledged at the last state election to build a grade separation at the intersection.
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Reliable, Economical, Safe, By Rail.
Away for Summer. Won't be on RP.
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Deep Throat
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Mar 21, 2004
Last Visited: Jan 8, 2009
Location: Hanging out with Donald Snerd
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| Deep Throat |
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Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 1:59 pm
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Looks like a victory for the impatient and for idiots who don't understand that being hit by a moving train hurts everywhere.
Anonymous - and proud of it.
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MelbourneCity
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Jan 22, 2003
Last Visited: Jan 7, 2009
Location: Melbourne
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| MelbourneCity |
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Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:06 pm
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Good to see this finally being done. It will help ease congestion, pollution, accidents etc.
I guess it will be very similar to the Laburnum project - work will start in the weeks before, then a 1month-6 week shutdown while they have the big dig/rebuild the station.
I wonder if the design will be similar to Boronia station - though probably have room for a 3rd track, so an island platform won't be built (I hope).
The new station may perhaps be a case for this PPP being talked about in the new transport "statement". Assuming the stations built below road level, there could be development on top!
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SPSD40T2
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Oct 01, 2006
Last Visited: Dec 28, 2008
Location: Platform 9-3/4 and still waiting !!
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Boss
Assistant Commissioner
Joined: Aug 04, 2004
Last Visited: Jan 8, 2009
Location: Caulfield Line
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Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:27 pm
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Lets hope they build a third track whilst they are at it and extend it back to Blackburn/Box Hill.
I never make mistakes. I thought I did once, but I was mistaken.
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CoRzzz
Station Master
Joined: Apr 11, 2008
Last Visited: Jan 2, 2009
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| CoRzzz |
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Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:50 pm
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Personally, I would like to see:
- a rail underpass constructed & Nunawading Station lowed (Boronia style)
- 3 platforms built (preparing for a triplication between RWD and BOX... even if it doesn't happen for many years to come)
- a decent bit of rail covered to allow for more parking to go on top (the parking could be increased by about 600-700 bays to near 1000 bays like Mitcham)
As for further development above the station... I'm sure they could get a lot of money for the project by going down this track. Pardon the pun.
Perhaps we would see office space/apartments? Although the people of Whitehorse don't like big towers i.e. Mitcham Towers fiasco.
As for Springvale road itself, do you all think it'll be a complete road closure over a 4-6 week period? If so, can Blackburn, Mitcham and Rooks roads handle the increased traffic? I wouldn't think so. Maybe they will have to pay ConnectEast a large sum of money to implement a toll free period (between say Burwood Highway to Springvale Road).
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Natronomonas
Train Controller
Joined: Jan 14, 2008
Last Visited: Jan 8, 2009
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| Natronomonas |
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Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:54 pm
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Tell me, do grade seps benefit rail at all? As far as I can tell, despite people always claiming they benefit rail and roads, the cars already give way to the train....
Maybe through fewer accidents, and not slowing down (eg for tram squares)...?
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drwaddles
In need of a breath mint
Joined: Aug 16, 2006
Last Visited: Dec 11, 2008
Location: Lifting the A-League trophy!
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| drwaddles |
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Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:57 pm
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No parking thanks, there's really no need. What should be built is a better bus/rail interchange with minimal delays to through buses on Springvale Road.
People who talk out their asre usually have bad breath.
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Boss
Assistant Commissioner
Joined: Aug 04, 2004
Last Visited: Jan 8, 2009
Location: Caulfield Line
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Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:04 pm
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I think both parking and a better bus/rail interchange is required so that rail can capture as many passengers as possible.
I never make mistakes. I thought I did once, but I was mistaken.
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drwaddles
In need of a breath mint
Joined: Aug 16, 2006
Last Visited: Dec 11, 2008
Location: Lifting the A-League trophy!
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| drwaddles |
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Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:09 pm
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It's not about rail capturing passengers, it is about providing travel opportunities that don't involve the car.
You do realise that using the land in the immediate vicinity of the station for mixed use development will 'capture' more passengers to public transport than a park and ride facility will? Not only will the people living there/doing business there be right on top of a railway station, but they will also want to use the bus services to travel to places not on the Ringwood Line. Thus you boost your cost recovery for running feeder bus services as well.
The areas up around Park Orchards which are not dense enough to justify proper bus services can park and ride at Doncaster, Templestowe or Ringwood if they want to get PT.
People who talk out their asre usually have bad breath.
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G41
Chief Train Controller
Joined: Sep 26, 2004
Last Visited: Jan 3, 2009
Location: Footplate of any K class
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| G41 |
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Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:13 pm
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| Quote: | | Tell me, do grade seps benefit rail at all? As far as I can tell, despite people always claiming they benefit rail and roads, the cars already give way to the train.... |
So if cars already give way to trains....why is there such a huge call to improve the railway crossings around victoria? It will not only help to cut accidents at crossings, but decrease stress on traffic. Even at 1200 on a Sunday, that crossing can get bad!
Matty C
"Signallers tell drivers where to go"
Photos @ http://matt650.fotopic.net
CMPS-Member/Volunteer
DVR-Deputy Rolling Stock Supervisor/Steam Team
Member/Volunteer of Steamrail Victoria
Founder of "The Gunzel Gang"
Member of Hobsons Bay Model Railway Club
Connex Signaller
All comments are of my own and do not unless stated reflect the above organisations |
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Deep Throat
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Mar 21, 2004
Last Visited: Jan 8, 2009
Location: Hanging out with Donald Snerd
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| Deep Throat |
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Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:24 pm
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| G41 wrote: | | Quote: | | Tell me, do grade seps benefit rail at all? As far as I can tell, despite people always claiming they benefit rail and roads, the cars already give way to the train.... |
So if cars already give way to trains....why is there such a huge call to improve the railway crossings around victoria? |
Simple.
Grade separations are perfect for Labor. They provide some resemblance of social nannying to keep ACOSS types happy in preventing idiots from killing themselves, they can use it to make their pronouncements of 'improving the rail system' without actually doing anything concrete. They provide a big ribbon to cut for the local pollie and then for Kosky to spin and keep people like Bumby, who loves his cars, happy that there has been an improvement to roads.
But do they do much? Nope. All it does is pander to people who can't wait 5 minutes or don't know what 'Stop At Red Signal' means.
Anonymous - and proud of it.
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Boss
Assistant Commissioner
Joined: Aug 04, 2004
Last Visited: Jan 8, 2009
Location: Caulfield Line
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Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 4:01 pm
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| drwaddles wrote: | It's not about rail capturing passengers, it is about providing travel opportunities that don't involve the car.
You do realise that using the land in the immediate vicinity of the station for mixed use development will 'capture' more passengers to public transport than a park and ride facility will? Not only will the people living there/doing business there be right on top of a railway station, but they will also want to use the bus services to travel to places not on the Ringwood Line. Thus you boost your cost recovery for running feeder bus services as well.
The areas up around Park Orchards which are not dense enough to justify proper bus services can park and ride at Doncaster, Templestowe or Ringwood if they want to get PT. |
That might be true for those in the immediate vicinity but you need to attract people lwho currently use their cars to go to the city to at least use PT for part of the way. Once they do that they may then use buses to the interchange - IMHO.
I never make mistakes. I thought I did once, but I was mistaken.
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OJ
Junior Train Controller
Joined: Apr 30, 2006
Last Visited: Sep 20, 2008
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Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 4:06 pm
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| Deep Throat wrote: | | G41 wrote: | | Quote: | | Tell me, do grade seps benefit rail at all? As far as I can tell, despite people always claiming they benefit rail and roads, the cars already give way to the train.... |
So if cars already give way to trains....why is there such a huge call to improve the railway crossings around victoria? |
Simple.
Grade separations are perfect for Labor. They provide some resemblance of social nannying to keep ACOSS types happy in preventing idiots from killing themselves, they can use it to make their pronouncements of 'improving the rail system' without actually doing anything concrete. They provide a big ribbon to cut for the local pollie and then for Kosky to spin and keep people like Bumby, who loves his cars, happy that there has been an improvement to roads.
But do they do much? Nope. All it does is pander to people who can't wait 5 minutes or don't know what 'Stop At Red Signal' means. |
Although I agree that they shouldn't be priority, and that they allow the government to spin that they're doing something for public transport when they're not.. level crossings on roads that are this busy should be gradually removed if we want to see a system with decent service frequencies (ie <10 minutes). A 5 minute peak hour frequency would see crossings like this almost constantly closed, which would not only stuff private vehicles, but bus routes as well.
The other aspect is the development above, and this is critical, as it can make a model in which a substantial portion of grade separation is paid for by the private sector through development above. I suspect that may be the reason for the Dandenong line works have been quietly dropped, as it would make more sense to do it as a gradual project - crossing by crossing - as and when development above becomes viable. Although slower, it would still gradually improve the service running, as it would provide passing loops as every crossing and new station was built, but would avoid the instant billion dollar price tag.
As for car parks - No way! Absolute waste of money and land.
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tranzitjim
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Jun 09, 2006
Last Visited: Jan 6, 2009
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Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 4:22 pm
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There was a plan, to hold off until after the Eastlink opened, to see how this would change traffic flows along Springvale road.
Clearly, Eastlink has not worked, if they still need to grade seperate.
AND, what about the Maroonda Highway cross roads just metres from the crossing? Unless they also grade seperate that from Springvale road, then there will not be any benefit to anyone by just grade seperating the train line.
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