Thousands of seats to go on trains [HS]

Gauntlet · Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 7:43 am

I found this at http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,24552052-2862,00.html

r707 · Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 9:03 am

The images show the floorplan of a Comeng. Top drawing is unmodified, with 89 seats, lower drawing has most of the seats longitudinal, with only a handful left unmodified. Seating capacity as shown is 75. The area directly behind the cab has longitudinal seats (as present) with the middle area designated for bikes and wheelchairs. The 'poles' are drawn as if they are overhead handrails, as was fitted to Hitachis, with most longitudinally down the car, with others running across the width of the car at doorways. Might scan the paper later, as this description isn't the clearest

Confucius Say man who fart in church sits in his own pew

alstom_888m · Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 11:57 am

In a 3x2 seating layout, the middle seat of the three tends to be not often used anyway. All trains should retain their current layout, but with 2x2 seating instead.

Reliable, Economical, Safe, By Rail.

Away for Summer. Won't be on RP.

Gwiwer · Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 12:24 pm

The headline is a fascinating piece of journalism. "Thousands of seats to go on trains" can be read either as more to be added or many to be removed.

I have no argument whatsoever with the figures which indicate massive patronage growth.

Where I do have issues is with the political interference which has stimulated some of this growth (the Government initiated the removal of Zone 3) and now it is that same Government (though the individuals within it are different) who are trumpeting the fact that even more passengers will be asked to stand for even longer.

It is already unacceptable to have to stand for trips in excess of an hour twice a day. If you think I exaggerate then try boarding the 7.03 or 7.20 up Frankston services at any point from Carrum onwards and looking for a seat. Likewise the 4.54, 5.07 ad 5.19 down services from Central onwards. All seats are taken and most are so for the entire journey. Many passengers have to stand for around an hour in both peaks every day.

At best this can only be a "quick fix" and would be unpopular at that with many customers.

Far better to take the bull firmly by the horns and instead of throwing cents at cheap gimmicks try putting dollars into the whole system and creating the extra capacity it so badly needs.

Why MYKI? It isn't mine and it's not a key.

Ferroequinologist. BA Hons (Honourable Bachelor of Aquatarts

)
The wise yet mysterious Sir Gwiwer Greybeard

Metro Transit · Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 1:06 pm

Well, in my own remake of Sound of Music song "these are a few of my favorite things", one of those was 'getting a seat on the 17.04 from Parliament'.

Now that verse has been scrapped along with the seat it was to be.

Although taking out the seats was probably something scrpped of the bottom of the think tank, it was one suggestion I put forward at those 'Meet our managers' things they had in the city a while back.

But at least they are doing a trial and if it doesn't work then maybe the might not go along with it.

Metro.

Metro Transit - For King and Country

Minister for Cultural Affairs and the Arts

The next station is Spencer Street

alstom_888m · Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 1:33 pm

Deanodriver · Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 1:45 pm

mjja · Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:08 pm

One more transport-related press article with a neutral-to-negative spin. Don't ever believe the press are unbiased.

In general I agree with Gwiwer - removing seats is a necessary evil due to increased patronage. Normally increasing patronage is a good thing (less cars on the road) but it needs to be hand in hand with services increasing in proportion. It seems the most significant improvements to the system overall in the last few years have been to do with ticketing - Sunday Saver, the abolition of Zone 3, cheaper 10x2hr tickets, etc. I'm not in any way implying those were bad changes - but it's a sad thing when the system is so bad we have to drop the price to get people to use it. Much better to spend money on improving it, even if fares have to be higher to pay for it.

The ultimate solution will be a large order of new trains, along with plenty of new drivers, which will allow a true two-tier service on the Frankston line. Significant numbers of trains running express to Moorabbin. Faster running time, meaning that even if you have to stand all the way to Frankston it's not as long. More service. That's obvious.

18 new trains will help a lot - but they're only the beginning. We need a major order signed very soon, with deliveries from 2013 at the latest.

Happy Gunzelling and remember, "Go by rail!"

Michael Angelico
President, Smart Passengers Inc
(My opinions are my own unless specifically stated.)

Gwiwer · Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:19 pm

668M · Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 3:19 pm

LamontCranston · Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 4:12 pm

Westernport · Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 4:56 pm

maybe when it comes to redesigning the layout of the whole fleet, maybe it should adopt a similar layout to the current Hitachi layout, with longitudinal seats along the walls of the train near the doors and at the end of the saloon areas..

i mean.. come on.. a hitachi can hold 1520 passengers crush load, compared to an xtrap that can only hold 1394... that's a fairly big difference...

at worst, we could just rip out all the seats and stick in some seats against the walls for the disabled and elderly... and chuck in a few poles in the centre of the train.....

or maybe.. we can get the sticky tape out and piece 4D back together again...

Batman1988 · Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 7:09 pm

The Met · Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 8:04 pm

If these trains were originally refurbished with the new seating layout - nobody would be complaining.

There would only be the hint of the fact there are less seats, and we'd all be over it by now.

If anything, this is what has led the Hitachi's to be renowned for their capacity which is higher than the average Melbourne Train proven above.

This is hardly what was expected, the paper's reported to be removing seats to widen the aisle - not so much as a complete reconfiguration. (Note it was implied something like an X'Trap and Comeng would end up like a Siemens, with only 2x2 seating)

But has anyone noticed the layout is only applicable to EDI Refurbished Comengs... The Alstom arrangement is a little more difficult to proceed with.

SO what if a few elderly people don't have seats - it's not as if most people are happily willing to 'volunteer' their seat in the first place to be courteous.

Its a cheap and temporary solution to an expensive and long term problem.

"People are pretty much alike. It's only that our differences are more susceptible to definition than our similarities." - Linda Ellerbee

jjd76au · Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 11:47 am