Design of Shelbourne line, two reverses

  beanzs27 Chief Train Controller

why was the Shelbourne line designed so that any train would have to reverse twice at Maldon and Castlemaine if it was going anywhere apart from Bendigo.

the castlemaine reversal has been explained previously on this forum but why when the line was extended to shelborune to maldon why did it not either branch out from the up side of the maldon line making maldon an issolated line or extend the Maldon line.

To me it appears a waste of time and effort to have to reverse train at maldon even if it save time in construction costs.

where did most of the goods go to from the Shelbourne Line?

castlemaine discussion
http://www.railpage.com.au/f-t11333372.htm
  Zen Dave Junior Train Controller

Location: Canberra - Q2
Why did [the Shelbourne extension] not either branch out from the up side of the maldon line making maldon an isolated line or extend the Maldon line?
beanzs27


It's likely there would be as much Shelbourne passenger traffic for Maldon as there would be for Castlemaine.  (You'd have to look at timetables and records of what was available in Maldon to be sure.)

So if the line was built branching on the up side, you'd either have to move Maldon station to the up side of the junction, or have a second Maldon station on the branch line.  

IF you look on Google maps http://maps.google.com.au/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=shelbourne&sll=-36.884735,144.025955&sspn=0.012855,0.025749&ie=UTF8&ll=-36.991628,144.071252&spn=0.006418,0.012875&z=17, you'll see the site of Maldon station is right on the edge of the town, and very convenient.  (Remember, it was built long before the days of cars and parking-at-the-station.  There was a lot more walking.)  So the Maldon people wouldn't have wanted their station to move to the junction, and would also have resisted the second, branch-line station as being less convenient.  It would also have been confusing for sending and receiving goods.  It also wouldn't have been possible to send trains directly from Shelbourne to the main Maldon Station unless a fork was also built.

So why not extend from Maldon in the down direction?  The map shows that that the tracks would need to go right through the middle of the town.  It was probably a lot cheaper to go through farm land.  It's possible Maldon wasn't as large then, but the most likely case is the station was built as close whatever existed at the time.
  VRfan Moderator

Location: In front of my computer :-p
If you look at the terrain around Maldon, you'll find that the grades would be far too steep if the line simply continued out the other end of the station. Remember that Maldon is on the side of Mt Tarrengower.

IIRC they attempted to survey a route out that way (roughly following the current Maldon - Bridgewater road), but ended up going with the flatter route from what became Shelbourne junction. I might be wrong about this though.

Interestingly, the line was originally planned to go to Lanacoorie (I think that spelling is correct) and you can see the remains of a bridge and earthworks for a few km past Shelbourne.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
Wasn't there a reversal station at or near Urangan in Queensland?
  Nightfire Chief Commissioner

Location: Gippsland

Interesingly, the line was planned to go to Lanacooonrie (I think the spelling Is correct)
VRfan
Lannecoorie
  Zen Dave Junior Train Controller

Location: Canberra - Q2
Wasn't there a reversal station at or near Urangan in Queensland?
awsgc24

Yes there was.

Maryborough (Qld) was a reversing station until a fork was built at Baddow.  Roma Street would have been a reversing station from 1882 to about 1890, but it's unlikely there were ever any trains that didn't terminate there.  There was a reversing movement for trains between Ipswich and Bundamba, from 1874 until Ipswich station was relocated from what is now the North Ipswich branch to the current location, in 1887.  Toowoomba was a reversing station for Brisbane to Roma/Charleville/Cunnamulla/etc trains (and might be again), and also Brisbane to Warwick/etc trains until the direct line through Drayton was opened.  Bowen was a reversing station at some stage.  So were Cloncurry and Townsville.

Burnie (Tas) would have been a reversing station if there were ever trains between east and south.  Irishtown was a reversing station, though there was a fork that bypassed it.

Clifton Hill (Vic) was a reversing station until the direct line from Jolimont was opened.  Sale was a reversing station.  Also Beech Forest, although there was a balloon loop at the end of the line.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Lannecoorie
Nightfire


It could be Laanecoorie.

http://www.loddon.vic.gov.au/Page/Page.asp?Page_Id=528&h=1

Further, can anyone point out the old station site at Shelbourne?  I have the following link which could be the site, but doesn't appear too close to the Shelbourne township if their is one?

http://maps.google.com.au/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Laanecoorie&sll=-25.335448,135.745076&sspn=43.631173,78.222656&ie=UTF8&ll=-36.883774,144.017372&spn=0.009611,0.019097&t=h&z=16&iwloc=addr

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Regards
Brian
  penov Chief Commissioner

Location: By the shore of Bass Strait.
The Shelbourne station site as far as I know was close to the intersection of Shelbourne Road and Puntons Road. - just on the north side of Shelbourne rd. On Google Earth the silo is still there next to the formation.

For further info check out http://www.railpage.com.au/f-t11342245.htm
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
The Shelbourne station site as far as I know was close to the intersection of Shelbourne Road and Puntons Road. - just on the north side of Shelbourne rd. On Google Earth the silo is still there next to the formation.
penov


Thanks.  This is what I expected.  The reference for google maps is:

http://maps.google.com.au/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Laanecoorie&sll=-25.335448,135.745076&sspn=43.631173,78.222656&ie=UTF8&ll=-36.882959,144.017136&spn=0.004806,0.009549&t=h&z=17&iwloc=addr

In fact, one can follow the reserve back to the junction with ease.

For further info check out http://www.railpage.com.au/f-t11342245.htm
penov


Thanks

Brian
  VRfan Moderator

Location: In front of my computer :-p

Clifton Hill (Vic) was a reversing station until the direct line from Jolimont was opened.
Zen Dave


Bit of trivia, Clifton Hill has the same type of station building as Maldon.
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

Clifton Hill (Vic) was a reversing station until the direct line from Jolimont was opened.
Zen Dave

I wouldn't have called Clifton Hill the reversing station. The trains ran through Clifton Hill and reversed at Collingwood (now known as Victoria Park).
  Zen Dave Junior Train Controller

Location: Canberra - Q2
Clifton Hill (Vic) was a reversing station until the direct line from Jolimont was opened.
Zen Dave
I wouldn't have called Clifton Hill the reversing station. The trains ran through Clifton Hill and reversed at Collingwood (now known as Victoria Park).
duttonbay
Yes, I agree, but it's a bit more complex.  All the other "direction change" stations were also the junction stations.  I thought if I said Collingwood (now Victoria Park) it would lead to confusion about where the junction was, and could even bring in the Doncaster line, and also possible confusion about which Collingwood it was.  So I was hoping to get away with a bit of poetic licence, and explain if questioned, but you've already done it.

It's also possible that some trains didn't go through to Collingwood, but really did reverse at Clifton Hill, but I think it's would most likely only have been goods.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
why was the Shelbourne line designed so that any train would have to reverse twice at Maldon and Castlemaine if it was going anywhere apart from Bendigo.
beanzs27


This has probably been said on another area of the forums, but I only ever remember catching the RM from Castlemaine to Maryborough. When catching the RM at Castlemaine, it was always in platform 3.  

Therefore, I don't think there was ever a situation where a passenger service from Melbourne would have tried to run through to Maryborough or Maldon/Shelbourne without the interchange at Castlemaine.

Regards
Brian
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

why was the Shelbourne line designed so that any train would have to reverse twice at Maldon and Castlemaine if it was going anywhere apart from Bendigo.
beanzs27


This has probably been said on another area of the forums, but I only ever remember catching the RM from Castlemaine to Maryborough. When catching the RM at Castlemaine, it was always in platform 3.  

Therefore, I don't think there was ever a situation where a passenger service from Melbourne would have tried to run through to Maryborough or Maldon/Shelbourne without the interchange at Castlemaine.

Regards
Brian
bevans

The Mildura train reversed at both Castlemaine and Maryborough for some years, although well before my time, or any of the 1960s WTTs I have in my possession. My memory of reading about this indicated a drop-on loco was used at both the reversing stations.

However Maldon was a branch, and I don't think there would have been a through service ever from Melbourne (apart from fan trips). I'm not certain Shelbourne would have ever rated anything better than a mixed train.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia

The Mildura train reversed at both Castlemaine and Maryborough for some years, although well before my time, or any of the 1960s WTTs I have in my possession. My memory of reading about this indicated a drop-on loco was used at both the reversing stations.
duttonbay


John, thanks for the insite.

Was this the regular Mildura service?  When did it start running via Ballarat?

Regards
Brian
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

Was this the regular Mildura service?  When did it start running via Ballarat?
bevans

Yes, the regular service. It started running via Ballarat in October 1933 (Oct.93 RNV) - as I said, long before my time...
  Barrington Womble Photo Nazi

Location: Exit...Stage Left!

Clifton Hill (Vic) was a reversing station until the direct line from Jolimont was opened.
Zen Dave


Bit of trivia, Clifton Hill has the same type of station building as Maldon.
VRfan
So does Coburg.
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

I'm not certain Shelbourne would have ever rated anything better than a mixed train.
duttonbay

Not necessarily good form to reply to your own post, but the VGR web site says:

With the opening of the extension, one mixed train per day served Shelbourne. 1924 saw the introduction of an AEC rail motor which provided four trips per day Monday to Friday, with the mixed running through to Shelbourne three days per week. Declining population from the late 1920's reduced the demand for rail services, which were cut back as the years passed. The AEC rail motor and all passenger services were withdrawn during the Second World War (1941)
A user


So, with just one mixed train daily extending beyond Maldon (at its busiest) it was hardly a big problem needing to reverse the train there.
  wongm GEEWONG

Location: Geelong, Victoria
Sale would have to be the worst and longest lasting example of a reversal in Victoria, the station being rebuilt in 1983 to eliminate it:
http://www.vrhistory.com/Locations/Sale.pdf
  VRfan Moderator

Location: In front of my computer :-p

Clifton Hill (Vic) was a reversing station until the direct line from Jolimont was opened.
Zen Dave


Bit of trivia, Clifton Hill has the same type of station building as Maldon.
VRfan
So does Coburg.
TheRev


Also Moreland, Moonee Ponds, Brunswick & Jewell. IIRC Kensignton is the same design, but the colour of the bricks is darker than the others. Ascot Vale is a similar building, but with some differences.
  Dd893 Train Controller

Location: Castlemaine
Old man said at the weekend, that it was 40 years ago last friday (9-1-09)that the bushfires burnt through from Bells Swamp to Shelbourne and Maldon. This fire destroyed the bridges and sleepers on this line. A diesel was out that way on this particular day and grabbed all the wagons and took them back to Maldon with the fire following closely behind.

Cheers
Murray

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