Yet another proposal

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trenttherandom Train Controller

Location: Blackmans Bay Tas

No. There are none.

- A user

and there probably won't be any for a while

 
bobharris2002 Train Controller

thanks .

 
trenttherandom Train Controller

Location: Blackmans Bay Tas

hey but thats no reason to loose hope of this prospect

 
SP7 Chief Train Controller

Location: Tassie

Turning into another political bun fight!

 
12CSVT Chief Commissioner

Location: Drowning in accreditation red tape!

There was a public meeting at Moorilla Winery at Berridale yesterday for a presentation on Ben Johnston's proposals on reviving Hobart suburban rail services. As I have had a bit to say about this proposal, I made sure to attend.

The most significant aspect about this meeting was the evidence that the proposal has obviously struck a chord politically. The meeting was convened by Federal Denison MP, Duncan Kerr, who has evidently taken the proposal to heart. With a State election due next year, a good cross section of state Denison contenders were there. Representing the State Govt and ALP were Lisa Singh MHA and candidate Scott Bacon. Representing the Liberals were Michael Hodgman MHA and candidate Elise Archer. Representing the Greens were Tim Morris MHA and Cassie O'Connor MHA. There was also a representative of the so-called "Socialist" Alliance. The Glenorchy City Council were represented by Mayor Adriana Taylor and Alderman David Pearce. Both southern rail preservation groups, the TTMS and DVR were represented.

Ben and Kristie Johnston did an excellent job in presenting their proposal to the audience. Afterwards all political groups enthusiastically endorsed the proposal, so whatever the outcome of the next state election, the political prospects for supporting a detailed study and potential implementation look positive. A copy of a motion put by Alderman Luke Martin to the GCC to support the proposal, which was carried, was available for perusal.

The one fly in the ointment that appeared during the public question and answer session was the possibility of an unsympathetic and intrangiscent bureaucracy (DIER) as the major unresolved issue was the current outstanding Major Urban Public Transport Study initiated in Oct. 2008 that has been due for release and subsequently failed to show up on at least 5 occasions to date. Another 'lost' study is one that was specifically undertaken on Light Rail Transit by Parsons Brinkerhoeff, that is yet to see the light of day. There was a representative of DIER in the audience, but when challenged by well known public transport commentator, John Livermore, about the missing studies, he could do little but offer some vague platitudes.

Getting back to the presentation, at least one of my issues on the proposal - the initial limit of Granton, which as a result, misses the fast growing population center of Brighton, was raised by Duncan Kerr. Ben's response was that Granton was selected as an initial terminus for simplicity sake to just get the proposal off the ground. Brighton is recognised as a major potential traffic generator and will probably be quickly added to the proposal, once momentum builds up, however in the initial stages, the complicating factors of Bridgewater Bridge's future and sharing the line between Bridgewater and Brighton with regular heavy freight needed to be set aside for the moment.

I am still a little skeptical about using battery powered rolling stock, but Ben put up a pretty convincing technical case in support of it. Obviously, when a full cost & viability study gets undertaken, the proposition of the use of battery powered stock versus other forms of motive power will likely get a detailed examination and if the battery concept passes muster in a detailed study, one could then have some confidence it may all work. Of course, if the battery option is found to be unviable cost wise - well whatever subsequent option gets the best numbers will obviously get the guernsey.

All in all I was pretty enthused by the meeting and presentation and think with cross party political support, there is an increasing chance this whole concept may actually get off the ground. Heres hoping!!

 
derwentparkjunc Chief Train Controller

This is an accurate and balanced synopsis of the Moorilla event provided by 12CSVT.

For potential future passenger rail operations in Tas this has been an historic week with action taken by GCC and public statements of support provided by each of the main 3 parties, including that of a federal government member.

Obviously there are plenty of potential hurdles.  HCC has an O-Bahn on rail corridor strategy in its draft Sustainable Transport Strategy - this document may be ratified by Council in the very near future.  It's to be hoped that enough HCC aldermen will think twice before signing off on this part of the overall startegy document.

Anyone with connections to HCC should be prepared to 'have a word'.

The HNSR proposal has to stand up to rigorous scrutiny and may need an assessment process that is broad ranging in terms of the criteria against which it is judged - probably some refinements to the proposal will be needed also.

The option of future extension to Brighton is an important one.  The route beyond Granton is not very conducive to the reasonably speedy operations that may be needed on this section to make it attractive.

Other than some significant curve easing near where the new Brighton Bypass will cross the modified rail route near the planned Brighton Interchange, there is unlikely to be any other plans in place to upgrade the curvature of this part of the Hobart- Brighton rail route.

With the many and rapid changes occuring with land allocation in the Brighton area, I think it is essential that a much improved rail corridor be identified and protected in the short term.

One particular allowance I would like to see made relates to the two rail underpasses near the planned Brighton Interchange (which is very close to the proposed rail junction to the Brighton Hub).

I believe there is great value in making these 'tunnels' sufficiently wide for future double track.  This woud allow greater flexibility in future years to cater for a mix of freight and passenger trains (including Launceston-Hobart) at this strategic location.

Anone in a position to 'have a word' about this matter should be encouraged to do so - but quickly as Brighton Bypass construction work is well underway.

Cheers,
DPJ

 
derwentparkjunc Chief Train Controller
 
12CSVT Chief Commissioner

Location: Drowning in accreditation red tape!

Some further links to Ben's proposal;

Facebook Page: http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/search/?ref=search&q=Hobart%20Northern%20Suburbs%20Railway&init=quick

Presentation link: http://blogs.abc.net.au/files/hnsr_24june2009.pdf

 
CharlesAbetz Beginner

What about a route to the airport, there is plenty of space and the terrain wouldn't be too bad, you would get about 1-2 million passengers per year, that is obviously going to increase if you have the service established.

Also then you will have bragging rights over Melbourne who are too lazy to get their's setup and  they have 1000% more passenger movements.

Tasmania has a real oppurtunity here to improve community standards and provide something back that the governments have been taking away for the last 30 years.

Lets not stuff it up.

I like Ben Johnson's ideas but the battery operated trams only in service albeit experimental on the Bendigo tramways in the 1960-1970s, they are basically what killed the tramways in Bendigo (also mismanagement by SEC).

I think third rail light rail is the way to go, with a bit of nostalgia thrown in on the weekends much like Adelaide's Tramways with the H cars.

 
trenttherandom Train Controller

Location: Blackmans Bay Tas

What about a route to the airport, there is plenty of space and the terrain wouldn't be too bad, you would get about 1-2 million passengers per year, that is obviously going to increase if you have the service established.

- A user

as said before, there is a major obstacle we call the Derwent river. it would probably be insufficient to create a line because a lot of money would be poured in to get it across the river although there is a good formation thru Cambridge along the old Belreive to Sorrel rail formation. May put the Tunnel back into use!! but the thing with the current proposal is that it will use an already laid track which will reduce costs heaps if it was a case of no track it wouldn't probably go ahead.

 
CharlesAbetz Beginner

I meant after the line is open on the original route, that should be the next route/extension after extension to Brighton. As this will have large patronage to warrant the cost.

Also as there will be passing loops it wont have to stop at all stations just the major ones.

 
derwentparkjunc Chief Train Controller

There have been several letters to the editor in The Mercury today and last Monday about the HNSR proposal.  Most have been supportive.  A strong anti letter from Bob Cotgrove on Monday was responded to by 3 or so people in today's edition.

Cheers,
DPJ

 
12CSVT Chief Commissioner

Location: Drowning in accreditation red tape!

Bob Cotgrove's letter ridiculing the proposal was expected as he is a well known ideological opponent of all Govt funded public transport.

It is annoying that he plays on some sort of academic qualification to generate media to spout his dated and repudiated theories that throw back to 1950's Los Angeles, on the supremacy of the personal freedoms of the motor car, without due regard to the contrary logic that lack of attractive public transport actually reduces personal car freedoms through congestion and increasing costs to the public accrued by the ever growing demands of roading and parking infrastructure, health and environmental burdens.

Cotgrove's denial of the unsustainability of unfettered car usage casts doubt on the credibility of his "qualifications". Actually, with his sort of ideology, he would be eminently suitable to join all the 'flat earthers' in the Liberal and National Parties!

 
derwentparkjunc Chief Train Controller

Bob C doesn't seem to appreciate, or acknowledge, that for individuals to have the flexibility of the private car vast amounts have been spent in developing increasingly extensive and sophisticated road networks (and maintaining them) as well as parking provision which in total amounts to using massive hectarages of urban space.  Add in the space occupied by the many businesses that are directly and indirectly supporting the vehicles, networks and systems.  Then consider the amount of bureaucracy involved at all three levels of government, and you have a better idea of the total amount of resources that are tied up in this way.

And to think that Bob was concerned about spending a few bucks on establishing a passenger rail service along such a significant corridor.  

Cheers,
DPJ

 
12CSVT Chief Commissioner

Location: Drowning in accreditation red tape!

A boost for the Northern Suburbs Passenger Rail Proposal in the State Budget announced yesterday with $350,000 allocated to a feasibility study.

http://www.budget.tas.gov.au/ministers-on-the-budget/nick-mckim

 

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