openmc2000 Beginner

Hi everyone,

This is my first post, ...

Has anyone here heard of a system called ATRICS?
You might of, if you work for RailCorp.

Can you tell me a little bit about it?

Thank you so so much.

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  Damien Assistant Commissioner

Location: Penrith South, NSW
Hi everyone,

This is my first post, ...

Has anyone here heard of a system called ATRICS?
You might of, if you work for RailCorp.

Can you tell me a little bit about it?

Thank you so so much.
"openmc2000"


I hope so seeing I control an ATRICS panel everyday Razz

ATRICS ( Advanced Train Running and Information Control Systems ), is basically what the new panels in Sydney Metropolitan are becoming, its not so much the interlocking it's just the system that controls the interlocking and gives feedback to the signaller about the position of points status of signals and locations of trains. ATRICS is actually railcorp designed computer based panel, as opposed to other systems such as Sigview at Blacktown, and Phoenix for ARTC which are "off the shelf" products done by private companies.

Any specific you wanted to know?
  wongm GEEWONG

Location: Geelong, Victoria
Why did RailCorp go for their own type of computer based panel, rather than one of the various other computer based systems by companies such as Alstom and Westinghouse? The old 'not invented here' issue?
  Stepto Assistant Commissioner

After all the design flaws are ironed out, wouldn't it be good if freight train drivers had some real-time info on how to drive their train. Great fuel savings and some Carbon emissions could be reduced!

IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN!
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
After all the design flaws are ironed out, wouldn't it be good if freight train drivers had some real-time info on how to drive their train. Great fuel savings and some Carbon emissions could be reduced!

IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN!
"Stepto"


Didn't the Uni in Adelaide come up with something like this, perhaps for TA railcars, and possibly called Fuelmiser!?
  openmc2000 Beginner

Thanks for the discussion guys....

Just some background info... a mate of mine who works for RailCorp and was involved in developing the ATRICS system...
RailCorp was a merger between Rail Infrastructure Corporation (RIC) and State Rail Authority.
RIC was a merger between Rail Services Australia (RSA) and Rail Access Corporation (RAC).
RSA was like a proprietory arm of the government charged with developing control systems software, thus they developed the now called ATRICS.

Anyway, on the technical sides of things ...
broadly speaking, does ATRICS mainly MONITOR the system, as opposed to CONTROL the system.
What I mean by this is, ATRICS monitors the positions of trains, status of switches, signal indicators only.
It does NOT control, in terms of starting/stopping a train (only the driver can do that...right), turning signals from red to green, switching the points on a track.

So, does ATRICS monitor or control ....
  Damien Assistant Commissioner

Location: Penrith South, NSW
Thanks for the discussion guys....

Just some background info... a mate of mine who works for RailCorp and was involved in developing the ATRICS system...
RailCorp was a merger between Rail Infrastructure Corporation (RIC) and State Rail Authority.
RIC was a merger between Rail Services Australia (RSA) and Rail Access Corporation (RAC).
RSA was like a proprietory arm of the government charged with developing control systems software, thus they developed the now called ATRICS.

Anyway, on the technical sides of things ...
broadly speaking, does ATRICS mainly MONITOR the system, as opposed to CONTROL the system.
What I mean by this is, ATRICS monitors the positions of trains, status of switches, signal indicators only.
It does NOT control, in terms of starting/stopping a train (only the driver can do that...right), turning signals from red to green, switching the points on a track.

So, does ATRICS monitor or control ....
"openmc2000"


It does monitor as you say, however it does also have controlling function. The Area Controller will issue a command on ATRICS to clear signal or put it back to stop, or to reverse or normalise a set of points. ATRICS will then tell the interlocking what to do, get confirmation that its been done and then relay that back to the Area Controller. Obviously starting/stopping a train is the drivers duty.
  Grantham Minister for Railways

Location: I'm with stupid!
After all the design flaws are ironed out, wouldn't it be good if freight train drivers had some real-time info on how to drive their train. Great fuel savings and some Carbon emissions could be reduced!

IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN!
"Stepto"


The signalmen could even tell you what's ahead of you over the radio, but that will never happen either. Ever followed an empty car set across the speedway (Parra to Penrith) that won't exceed 40km/h? Must have been on overtime and trying to drag his shift out. Evil or Very Mad

M
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
Why did RailCorp go for their own type of computer based panel, rather than one of the various other computer based systems by companies such as Alstom and Westinghouse? The old 'not invented here' issue?
"wongm"


I guess they support it because they can and if they didn't there would be a lot of egos and agendas that went unfed.
Hard to believe that "the new RailCorp" or the NSW gov would continue down this path but then maybe it isn't!
There must be lots of cheaper, proven systems readily available out there...
"conniebonker"



Does ATRICS interface with Platform and Concourse Indicators? With the large number of stopping patterns and alternate routes in Sydney compare to other cities it might be possible that a custom-made control system is needed because the proprietary cannot cope with such complications?

As for doing things custom-made, the abandonned Queen Street control centre opposite Regent Street, Central ought to be a salutary lesson of how not to do things.
  Damien Assistant Commissioner

Location: Penrith South, NSW
Why did RailCorp go for their own type of computer based panel, rather than one of the various other computer based systems by companies such as Alstom and Westinghouse? The old 'not invented here' issue?
"wongm"


I guess they support it because they can and if they didn't there would be a lot of egos and agendas that went unfed.
Hard to believe that "the new RailCorp" or the NSW gov would continue down this path but then maybe it isn't!
There must be lots of cheaper, proven systems readily available out there...
"conniebonker"



Does ATRICS interface with Platform and Concourse Indicators? With the large number of stopping patterns and alternate routes in Sydney compare to other cities it might be possible that a custom-made control system is needed because the proprietary cannot cope with such complications?

"awsgc24"


ATRICS provides information of delays and diversions to the LICS directly which in turn affects Platform and Concourse indications.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
Why did RailCorp go for their own type of computer based panel, rather than one of the various other computer based systems by companies such as Alstom and Westinghouse? The old 'not invented here' issue?
"wongm"


I guess they support it because they can and if they didn't there would be a lot of egos and agendas that went unfed.
Hard to believe that "the new RailCorp" or the NSW gov would continue down this path but then maybe it isn't!
There must be lots of cheaper, proven systems readily available out there...
"conniebonker"



Does ATRICS interface with Platform and Concourse Indicators? With the large number of stopping patterns and alternate routes in Sydney compare to other cities it might be possible that a custom-made control system is needed because the proprietary cannot cope with such complications?

"awsgc24"


ATRICS provides information of delays and diversions to the LICS directly which in turn affects Platform and Concourse indications.
"Damien"


LICS?
  Damien Assistant Commissioner

Location: Penrith South, NSW

LICS?
"awsgc24"


Line Information Control Systems (I'm pretty sure that's what it stands for anyway) Basically its the new system thats being rolled out so that one person can control the indicators on a whole line of stations rather just the one.
  openmc2000 Beginner

So an operator(Area Controller or whatever) can actually change a position of a switch on the track, so as to make the train move onto a different track?

I assume the 'interlocking' mechanism, will check that there is no conflict with another route the train is following???

Can Area Controllers take 'manual' control, i.e. overrride ATRICS and change signals and points to whatever they want???
  Damien Assistant Commissioner

Location: Penrith South, NSW
So an operator(Area Controller or whatever) can actually change a position of a switch on the track, so as to make the train move onto a different track?

I assume the 'interlocking' mechanism, will check that there is no conflict with another route the train is following???

Can Area Controllers take 'manual' control, i.e. overrride ATRICS and change signals and points to whatever they want???
"openmc2000"


The Interlocking assures that there will be no conflict yes, as for Manual Control at any time an Area Controller to move a set of points or clear a signal (providing of course its safe to do so of course, the interlocking will prevent this if its not).

By saying Manual Control, I'm assuming your under the belief that ATRICS is fully automated this is not the case, Automatic Route setting (ARS) is a feature that can be included on ATRICS but is not neccessarily a feature unique to ATRICS a few push panels even have ARS. It can be activated and deactivated at certain locations at will however there are still plenty of routes on different ATRICS panel that do not have ARS.
  openmc2000 Beginner

How exactly is Interlocking implemented, in software or hardware? In ATRICS or in the signalling infrastructure itself?

Also, when you use the word 'Panel' are you referring to the Graphical User Interface (GUI), or a hardware panel of some sort?

In SCADA systems, we would consider this the HMI, Human Machine Interface.
  FieldShunt74 Chief Commissioner

How exactly is Interlocking implemented, in software or hardware? In ATRICS or in the signalling infrastructure itself?
"openmc2000"

ATRICS doesn't do the interlocking, it's just the user interface. The interlocking is whatever was installed when the area in question was last resignalled (or installed initially for newer locales). The interlocking can be relay based, or solid state, or some of each. ATRICS is non vital, it replaces a physical "push-button and lights" panel.  

Also, when you use the word 'Panel' are you referring to the Graphical User Interface (GUI), or a hardware panel of some sort?
"openmc2000"

Panel gets bandied about a lot, and can mean a physical NX panel with lights and buttons and knobs. It could also be used, off hand, to refer to an area of control now worked under ATRICS. "Hurstville Panel" used to be an NX panel in Sydenham, it's now an ATRICS workstation, but might still be called a panel, and people would know what was meant.
  Damien Assistant Commissioner

Location: Penrith South, NSW

Also, when you use the word 'Panel' are you referring to the Graphical User Interface (GUI), or a hardware panel of some sort?
"openmc2000"



The correct term would be workstation, but as in the signal box we always refer to each as separate panels and its the way the phones are answered and when a problem is reported it is always via the panel name, the only people that use the Workstation name is usually the technicians, its just habit that I typed panel.

Just to give you an example of the difference between the workstation name and the panel name used, Epping Panel when talking in terms of workstation is referred to as the Rhodes-Normanhurst workstation.
  openmc2000 Beginner

Ah OK, starting to bet a little bit clearer now.

ATRICS is the user interface, which operates on top of the singnalling infrastructure.

Does anyone know about how ATRICS and the singalling infrastructure interact?

I mean, the singals, are they wired up to a PLC/RTU or something, which is then sent to a central server, which writes this data to an ATRICS database etc....
  ThatGuy Train Controller

Sorry to bring an old thread out from the grave but anyway...

Has the Northern Line been ATRICSed yet?  Because many stations along the Northern Line now have PIDs and Concourse displays. (At least I know Pennant Hills has both).

Also, does ATRICS rely on track circuits to send information to the operators? Or something else?
  FullSeries Assistant Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
The Northern Line is under ATRICS control from Normanhurst all the way into town.  Hornsby takes over just after Normanhurst with an Nx(?) system?

Yes, ATRICS using TC's and wayside detections systems to gather their information.
  N959 Junior Train Controller


The Northern Line is under ATRICS control from Normanhurst all the way into town. Hornsby takes over just after Normanhurst with an Nx(?) system? Yes, ATRICS using TC's and wayside detections systems to gather their information.
"FullSeries"


All the way into town via the Shore, but not via Strathfield, which is NX route control with relay interlocking. Sydney Box is also mostly NX/relay.

  FullSeries Assistant Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW

We can now add to that list that Normanhurst - Cowan is now ATRICS also.

Strathfield still NX
Sydney still NX - Though there is a lot of talk on how to convert this to ATRICS.

  MILW Junior Train Controller

Location: Earth



NX route control with relay interlocking

"N959"


ATRICS still provides a form of NX route control in its user interface and is connected to the same interlocking systems as hardwired panels, so the distinction between what appear to be two completely different systems can be a tad misleading. Of course ATRICS also offers a host of features on top of basic route control (path setting - calls mutliple adjoining routes simultaneously, saves time; ARS - staff reductions, alarms, passenger information etc), some welcomed, others not so much. It also offers the government any easy means of spending huge sums of money in return for fairly limited tangible benefits.

  Aurora8 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Sydney

We can now add to that list that Normanhurst - Cowan is now ATRICS also.

Strathfield still NX
Sydney still NX - Though there is a lot of talk on how to convert this to ATRICS.
"FullSeries"

Except the ESR which from what I understand is ATRICS (I'm sure that's what N959 was referring to). Yes, Normanhurst to Cowan (Hawkesbury River IIRC) since Homebush CC took over from Hornsby.

  FullSeries Assistant Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
I was under the impression (and I could be completely wrong) that the ESR, like the departure end of 20/21 was just some kind of ARS? Would make sense for it to be ATRICS though, just like the NSR.

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