xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
Honestly, what is the point of buying a myki if you only travel, say, once a year?
"railblogger"
Or less! Which is precisely my point as well.

I am not against the purchase price (or my preference, a deposit) of a Myki card for regular users, I am just against charging people what I regard as an exorbitant fee for something  that they may only use once or twice in their lifetime, and then throw away once they finish their trip.

Which is why I like the idea of the $6/3 fee being replaced by a deposit (if management still persist in having some sort of charge)....you get back your deposit when you hand in your Myki card (in good condition) once you no longer need it

Sponsored advertisement

  Loco Administrator Railpage 2 Developer

Location: Melbourne
A quote was made in another thread by Revenue, I know it has probably been answered before but I haven't really been following the Myki threads until recently.


Metcard had a number of issues:



- It did not cover all of Victoria (eg. you can't easily purchase a ticket from, say, Prahran to Bendigo)
"Revenue"


I'm still waiting to be able to catch a bus from my home in suburban Melbourne, to the train station then on a V/Line train to work, followed by the local town bus to work.

All of this I can do with a V/Line ticket, but what is annoying is if I do not get the ticket the day before I am left off slugged a Zone 2, 2 hour price on my myki to get me on the bus from home to the train station. Plus another Zone 2 fare to get to my work, which also is in a Zone 2 category just a V/Line fare.

People are tired of waiting for such features, the quicker it is on V/Line and across the board the better!
  501M Train Controller

Location: The Borough
Honestly, what is the point of buying a myki if you only travel, say, once a year?
"railblogger"
Or less! Which is precisely my point as well.

I am not against the purchase price (or my preference, a deposit) of a Myki card for regular users, I am just against charging people what I regard as an exorbitant fee for something that they may only use once or twice in their lifetime, and then throw away once they finish their trip.

Which is why I like the idea of the $6/3 fee being replaced by a deposit (if management still persist in having some sort of charge)....you get back your deposit when you hand in your Myki card (in good condition) once you no longer need it
"xxxxlbear"


I think that the system should be like Citylink where you pay $50 to open an account with an e-tag, however the $50 becomes credit on your account.  The $6/3 fee should become credit on the myki card and thus removing the need to pay for a card you may only use once.

I see that Myki will be introduced onto V/Line services with the removal of off-peak tickets.  If I can't still get my paper ticket at Bacchus Marsh station for travel to Melbourne, well I just will not use public transport any more.
  melbtrip Chief Commissioner

Location: Annoying Orange

Honestly, what is the point of buying a myki if you only travel, say, once a year?
"railblogger"
Or less! Which is precisely my point as well.

I am not against the purchase price (or my preference, a deposit) of a Myki card for regular users, I am just against charging people what I regard as an exorbitant fee for something that they may only use once or twice in their lifetime, and then throw away once they finish their trip.

Which is why I like the idea of the $6/3 fee being replaced by a deposit (if management still persist in having some sort of charge)....you get back your deposit when you hand in your Myki card (in good condition) once you no longer need it
"xxxxlbear"


I think that the system should be like Citylink where you pay $50 to open an account with an e-tag, however the $50 becomes credit on your account. The $6/3 fee should become credit on the myki card and thus removing the need to pay for a card you may only use once.

I see that Myki will be introduced onto V/Line services with the removal of off-peak tickets. If I can't still get my paper ticket at Bacchus Marsh station for travel to Melbourne, well I just will not use public transport any more.
"501M"


There is no off-peak tickets for a Melbourne to Zone B location at the current moment.

Under Myki - off-peak fares:


The discount for off-peak travel is 30 per cent (this is applied after any concession discount).
Customers who do not touch on and off correctly will be charged a peak fare.
For customers travelling off-peak, the equivalent peak fare contributes toward the Daily cap, even
though they are paying a reduced fare.

For example when a full fare customer travels three zones off-peak, 100 per cent of the standard fare will be counted towards the Daily cap even though only 70 per cent of the standard fare has been paid.



People in Bacchus Marsh station for travel to Melbourne will pay less under MYKI compare they paying today with a paper ticket.

 

Daily paper ticket: Melbourne to Bacchus Marsh:$12.70

Myki daily cap : Melbourne to Bacchus Marsh:$11.84

The problem I see V/Line users  needing to travel 3 zones or  more when traveling to Melbourne zone 1 in peak time using MYKI money, will not get any financial benefits of using a MYKI over a paper ticket.

You could have be unluckly and have Bacchus Marsh in future zone 3 and pay for a daily myki cap of $19.20 and receive no financial benefits of using a MYKI over the current paper V/Line ticket and some people say people are financial worst of because they have buy a myki which cost $6.00.

An example of this in peak time:

Melbourne to Pakenham :58km  from the city(Zone 1 to 2) myki  daily cap fare:$11.84

Melbourne to Nar Nar Goon :65km from the city (zone 1 to 3) myki  daily cap fare:$19.20

Just travlling 7km more and then users pays nearly double under myki.

Note if V/Line users travelling in 3 zones or more when traveling to Melbourne zone 1 in peak time receive the same  benefits under MYKI money as they do in Melbourne and then the fare from :

Melbourne to Nar Nar Goon :65km from the city (zone 1 to 3) would only cost for a daily cap: $12.80 and not $19.20


Fact Bacchus Marsh was first design to place in zone 3 under myki.

all fares infomation come from Victoria Gazette  - Gazette: S450

  501M Train Controller

Location: The Borough

Honestly, what is the point of buying a myki if you only travel, say, once a year?
"railblogger"
Or less! Which is precisely my point as well.

I am not against the purchase price (or my preference, a deposit) of a Myki card for regular users, I am just against charging people what I regard as an exorbitant fee for something that they may only use once or twice in their lifetime, and then throw away once they finish their trip.

Which is why I like the idea of the $6/3 fee being replaced by a deposit (if management still persist in having some sort of charge)....you get back your deposit when you hand in your Myki card (in good condition) once you no longer need it
"xxxxlbear"


I think that the system should be like Citylink where you pay $50 to open an account with an e-tag, however the $50 becomes credit on your account. The $6/3 fee should become credit on the myki card and thus removing the need to pay for a card you may only use once.

I see that Myki will be introduced onto V/Line services with the removal of off-peak tickets. If I can't still get my paper ticket at Bacchus Marsh station for travel to Melbourne, well I just will not use public transport any more.
"501M"


There is no off-peak tickets for a Melbourne to Zone B location at the current moment.

Under Myki - off-peak fares:


The discount for off-peak travel is 30 per cent (this is applied after any concession discount).
Customers who do not touch on and off correctly will be charged a peak fare.
For customers travelling off-peak, the equivalent peak fare contributes toward the Daily cap, even
though they are paying a reduced fare.

For example when a full fare customer travels three zones off-peak, 100 per cent of the standard fare will be counted towards the Daily cap even though only 70 per cent of the standard fare has been paid.



People in Bacchus Marsh station for travel to Melbourne will pay less under MYKI compare they paying today with a paper ticket.

 

Daily paper ticket: Melbourne to Bacchus Marsh:$12.70

Myki daily cap : Melbourne to Bacchus Marsh:$11.84

The problem I see V/Line users needing to travel 3 zones or more when traveling to Melbourne zone 1 in peak time using MYKI money, will not get any financial benefits of using a MYKI over a paper ticket.

You could have be unluckly and have Bacchus Marsh in future zone 3 and pay for a daily myki cap of $19.20 and receive no financial benefits of using a MYKI over the current paper V/Line ticket and some people say people are financial worst of because they have buy a myki which cost $6.00.

Fact Bacchus Marsh was first design to place in zone 3 under myki.

"melbtrip"


For a frequent traveller I can see the benefits of myki, however for an infrequent traveller like myself there is no benefit. Actually it is more of a hinderance.  I have to purchase a card for $6 that at most will be used once or twice a year that expires every four years.  I will save $0.86 based on the figures above for each day of travel, and over the four years of the card save a massive $0.88 if I use it twice a year. 

The ticketing system should make it easy for infrequent travellers, myki only makes it harder.  For me, well I will just drive everywhere.
  melbtrip Chief Commissioner

Location: Annoying Orange

Honestly, what is the point of buying a myki if you only travel, say, once a year?
"railblogger"
Or less! Which is precisely my point as well.

I am not against the purchase price (or my preference, a deposit) of a Myki card for regular users, I am just against charging people what I regard as an exorbitant fee for something that they may only use once or twice in their lifetime, and then throw away once they finish their trip.

Which is why I like the idea of the $6/3 fee being replaced by a deposit (if management still persist in having some sort of charge)....you get back your deposit when you hand in your Myki card (in good condition) once you no longer need it
"xxxxlbear"


I think that the system should be like Citylink where you pay $50 to open an account with an e-tag, however the $50 becomes credit on your account. The $6/3 fee should become credit on the myki card and thus removing the need to pay for a card you may only use once.

I see that Myki will be introduced onto V/Line services with the removal of off-peak tickets. If I can't still get my paper ticket at Bacchus Marsh station for travel to Melbourne, well I just will not use public transport any more.
"501M"


There is no off-peak tickets for a Melbourne to Zone B location at the current moment.

Under Myki - off-peak fares:


The discount for off-peak travel is 30 per cent (this is applied after any concession discount).
Customers who do not touch on and off correctly will be charged a peak fare.
For customers travelling off-peak, the equivalent peak fare contributes toward the Daily cap, even
though they are paying a reduced fare.

For example when a full fare customer travels three zones off-peak, 100 per cent of the standard fare will be counted towards the Daily cap even though only 70 per cent of the standard fare has been paid.



People in Bacchus Marsh station for travel to Melbourne will pay less under MYKI compare they paying today with a paper ticket.

 

Daily paper ticket: Melbourne to Bacchus Marsh:$12.70

Myki daily cap : Melbourne to Bacchus Marsh:$11.84

The problem I see V/Line users needing to travel 3 zones or more when traveling to Melbourne zone 1 in peak time using MYKI money, will not get any financial benefits of using a MYKI over a paper ticket.

You could have be unluckly and have Bacchus Marsh in future zone 3 and pay for a daily myki cap of $19.20 and receive no financial benefits of using a MYKI over the current paper V/Line ticket and some people say people are financial worst of because they have buy a myki which cost $6.00.

Fact Bacchus Marsh was first design to place in zone 3 under myki.

"melbtrip"


For a frequent traveller I can see the benefits of myki, however for an infrequent traveller like myself there is no benefit. Actually it is more of a hinderance. I have to purchase a card for $6 that at most will be used once or twice a year that expires every four years. I will save $0.86 based on the figures above for each day of travel, and over the four years of the card save a massive $0.88 if I use it twice a year.

The ticketing system should make it easy for infrequent travellers, myki only makes it harder. For me, well I will just drive everywhere.
"501M"


What I am saying Person can be frequent traveller and travel 3 days a week and travels 3 zones or more when traveling to Melbourne zone 1 in peak time will receive no financial benefits of using a MYKI money over the current paper V/Line ticket
  Gwiwer Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid

Location: Loitering in darkest Somewhere
Added to which the occasional traveller is probably not too bothered about saving a few cents here and there and, as in other places, will cheerfully pay a fixed price for the few rides they make.  
  melbtrip Chief Commissioner

Location: Annoying Orange
Update- some people will be worst of under myki if they travelling in off-peak to a current zone b location under MYKI from Melbourne

Zone B off peak Daily fares will continue to be available for travel until myki is implemented on V/Line interurban trains later in 2013.

Zone B off-peak Daily fares cost:


  • Full fare – $11.70

  • Concession – $5.90




V/Line off-peak daily - $11.70

Myki daily cap -  $11.84

http://ptv.vic.gov.au/news/news-promotions/zone-b-off-peak-fares-still-available-for-travel

  Revenue Chief Commissioner

Yes, there was a mistake in the manual in relation to Zone B fares. This has been fixed. Zone B stations share Zone 2 fares (as they will be in Zone 2 under myki), but because the Zone 2 two hour fares have now all gone - there wasn't a corresponding fare. I'm surprised it wasn't picked up earlier.  Of course, this gets resolved when these stations become part of myki (in fact, the peak fare drops down to the off-peak fare). These stations also get access to the weekend fares and the free weekend travel for Seniors.

In relation to the roll out of myki on V/Line, as asked above, not long now! A trial first on one line followed by line by line implementation across the network. That's a real positive.
  Revenue Chief Commissioner

It isn't my role to defend every decision related to myki and I object to the implication that it is
"A couple of pages ago, Revenue"


Just thought I'd remind everyone of what Auntie Revenue's position is, until he comes on to defend every decision related to Myki. It's a convenient line to trot out on the many times he gets cornered in his role to defend all of the Myki in all of his posts (whilst simultaneously trying to show off how worldly he is).

"Sir Thomas Bent"


To once again clarify my position. I'm happy to comment, and yes I will point out the advantages of the myki system because even though it has a number of flaws (and I'm probably in a better position to know how many there are!) it has the potential to be a very good system. And if someone asks respectfully if I know why a particular decision was made then I'll be happy to try and explain as best I can. What I strongly objected to is a member of Railpage demanding I answer a question and then saying he would 'pursue' me for an answer - which is frankly rude as hell. If the person in question had asked "do you know why this particular decision was made?" I would have been happy to answer.  I happen to think that civility is important - and yes, I think its sad how bad behaviour is tollerated on this forum. Some individuals seem to think that objecting to bad behaviour is a sign of weakness - it isn't.  It's important to stand up to bad behaviour - something that some moderators do not take seriously enough.
  Revenue Chief Commissioner

Which is why I like the idea of the $6/3 fee being replaced by a deposit (if management still persist in having some sort of charge)....you get back your deposit when you hand in your Myki card (in good condition) once you no longer need it
"xxxxlbear"


The original decision not to offer this functionality was made with knowledge that this is actually quite expensive to deliver. If you look at the costs in other cities who offer this functionality - it is quite high. Believe it or not, you need to factor in things like having the cards sanitised, checked for damage, etc.. You also need quite a lot of functionality to make sure that the card hasn't been registered, reported stolen, etc. So the cost isn't small to deliver this (either widely or at a small number of locations).

Having said that, the decision was made with the expectation that there would be short term tickets.

With the massive cost savings of not having short term tickets (and they are large), then it would have been legitmate to review this decision. But the problem then becomes whether or no the contractor has the ability to deliver this change. The software development for this project has been just awful - so if this change was wanted it then it would have been very expensive and taken a long time. So that's how you end up at the current situation.

So it's a good idea - but unable to be supported effectively at the present time across the network. Whether you could do something more manual and ad-hoc at key locations - well that remains to be seen.
  Loco Administrator Railpage 2 Developer

Location: Melbourne
In relation to the roll out of myki on V/Line, as asked above, not long now! A trial first on one line followed by line by line implementation across the network. That's a real positive.
"Revenue"


Seymour line, Seymour line, Seymour line!  8)

Thanks for your reply, Revenue. I shall wait in hope.
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
Thank you, Revenue.

Two  minor points in response to your post, and which probably falls outside the scope of this thread.


You also need quite a lot of functionality to make sure that the card hasn't been registered, reported stolen, etc.
"Revenue"

This sort of information should already exist on your computers...I would be surprised, and shocked, that it wasn't. One of things Myki promotes is that of having the ability to register a card. So therefore if a card is reported as lost, and is subsequently handed in, I assume that you would already have the computer resources to find out who the card belongs to. And stolen, I would be shocked, and angry, if my card was stolen (or another word for an AWOL card 'lost') and found I couldn't put some sort of stop on the card, and have the balance, if any, transferred to a new card.

And point 2:
With the massive cost savings of not having short term tickets (and they are large), then it would have been legitmate to review this decision. But the problem then becomes whether or no the contractor has the ability to deliver this change. The software development for this project has been just awful - so if this change was wanted it then it would have been very expensive and taken a long time. So that's how you end up at the current situation.
"Revenue"

What the contracter, or whatever name you wish to assign the business awarded the contract to deliver and implement Myki, is not up to you. Whatever the expense, that is only the concern  of the business currently holds the contract to deliver Myki. As far as I see it, if the Government specifes short term tickets be available, and the contract awardee fails to deliver, then they have breached the contract. I can't see how it would be possible that the contracted business would say something along the lines of, 'Sorry, too hard, can't do', and the Government doesn't fine them, or terminate the contract, for a breach of contract
  Revenue Chief Commissioner

To put it simply xxxlbear, I'm afraid that isn't correct.

The central system does indeed know if a card has been reported as lost or stolen, etc. But the functionality we are talking about here is about letting a front line member of staff know this information in order to process a refund on the spot.  If someone walks up with a card, then in order to give them a cash refund, not only do you need to know that the card hasn't been reported lost, stolen, etc.. but you also need to know if the person in front of you is that registered card holder.

Let's imagine a scenario where someone finds a wallet on the street - they take the card to the station and ask for a refund. At that point it hasn't been reported stolen yet. With centralised processing of cards, the call centre can block the card, check the id of the person and then send the refund to the address that was registered (eg. there are a number of checks and balances in place to prevent fraud). In other words - if you don't do it properly for on the spot refunds then you compremise the ability of the system to protect balances on registered cards (which you nominated correctly as being important).

If you are doing it over the counter then you need to give front line staff the abilty to see who is applying for a refund, and check that matches the person to which the card was registered. Even if you only allowed refund functionality on unregistered cards then you still need to verify that the card hasn't been registered.

So what you are suggesting has implications for the booking office machine, back end system, etc. It isn't a small change that can be done quickly. And even if it was - there are plenty of other changes (eg, remote blocking and unblocking of cards) that have taken priority.

In relation to Point 2, the ability of the contractor to deliver is indeed something you need to consider in this instance. For the simple reason that their incompetence means that we have ended up in the unfortunate situation where various changes need to be prioritised for implemenation - to protect the ability of the whole project to move forward. It's not good - but necessary unfortunately.
  Gwiwer Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid

Location: Loitering in darkest Somewhere
Point 2 : I suspect because our dear "Government" has better things to do and places anything to do with public transport in the "Too Hard" basket.  Or ignores it altogether on the grounds than only the Great Unwashed ever use PT and if they're ignored for long enough they will eventually go away.

It is some time ago now since I was able to ask then Minister Kosky a few questions about public transport which was her portfolio at the time.   In response to the question "How often do you yourself use public transport?" she replied that she never did and saw no reason for most people to do so.   The follow-up question was "Do you then see public transport as being a service for all or just for the poor and needy?" to which the answer was "More of the second one really".  From the minister of the day I felt that was not a particularly positive response.  
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong

Again, thank you, Revenue. Your input has been very informative to say the least! Smile

To put it simply xxxlbear, I'm afraid that isn't correct.

The central system does indeed know if a card has been reported as lost or stolen, etc. But the functionality we are talking about here is about letting a front line member of staff know this information in order to process a refund on the sport. If someone walks up with a card, then in order to give them a cash refund, not only do you need to know that the card hasn't been reported lost, stolen, etc.. but you also need to know if the person in front of you is that registered card holder.

Let's imagine a scenario where someone finds a wallet on the street - they take the card to the station and ask for a refund. At that point it hasn't been reported stolen yet. With centralised processing of this, the call centre can block the card, check the id of the person and then send the refund to the address that was registered (eg. there are a number of checks and balances in place). In other words - if you don't do it properly for on the spot refunds then you compremise the ability of the system to protect balances on registered cards (which you nominated correctly as being important).

If you are doing it over the counter then you need to give front line staff the abilty to see who is applying for a refund, and check that matches the person to which the card was registered. Even if you only allowed refund functionality on unregistered cards then you still need to verify that the card hasn't been registered.

So what you are suggesting has implications for the booking office machine, back end system, etc. It isn't a small change that can be done quickly. And even if it was - there are plenty of other changes (eg, remote blocking and unblocking of cards) that have taken priority.
"Revenue"

This isn't directed at you, but at the way the whole thing has been set up.
It may the Government for not specifying something as simple as this functionality in the contract, or the contract awardee, for putting it in the too hard basket, and in which case they should never had been awarded the contract in the 1st place, ot at least had their particpation in the contract revoked for breach-of-contract.

I fail to see why this issue is so hard. The technology is out there already, and in place with things like ATM and credit cards. Front end functionality is the norm within the banking system. To me, Myki, in this respect, is a half a**ed attempt, why do the job at all when it is only half done...

In relation to Point 2, the ability of the contractor to deliver is indeed something you need to consider in this instance. For the simple reason that their incompetence means that we have ended up in the unfortunate situation where various changes need to be prioritised for implemenation - to protect the ability of the whole project to move forward. It's not good - but necessary unfortunately.
"Revenue"
The contracted party has failed to deliver, pure and simple. They should be eliminated from the contract, and replaced with somone who can, whether that be a public or private business. I cannot stand incompetance, especially when it comes tp public taxpayers money. If the job can't be done well, then it shouldn't be done at all.

  Gwiwer Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid

Location: Loitering in darkest Somewhere
Eloquently put, Mr. Bear, and with respect to the obscene cost of this thing coming from the public purse i.e. your pocket and mine assuming we are both tax-payers.  We have a report which those who know its contents are busting their chops to keep secret (and we are entitled to ask why) and we have a ticketing system which remains both full of holes and incapable of operating as we were promised it would.  Add to that the several political decisions to remove parts of the whole leaving us, among other things, without short-term tickets and we have a fiasco by which history will judge those responsible and those who try to use our public transport will judge those (usually poor innocents) who staff it.
  Revenue Chief Commissioner

With respect, smartcard ticketing for public transport is completely different to other systems. With banking, your money is stored in a central system - the card is merely a 'key' to that money. With public transport ticketing system, the money is stored on the card itself.

It isn't a trivial matter to give front line staff access to account details and personal information. The level of complexity grows significantly. For example, all the controls about seeing who accessed what information, at what time for what purpose needs to be managed very carefully. This then impacts on staff training and responsibilities. Because the money on cards is actual money (not credits) then there are banking regulations that apply. Anti money laundrying laws then apply.

That's why this function - of refunding cards - was to be done centrally.

To give front line staff access to the information required to process a refund (as opposed to swapping money from one card to another) is a MAJOR complication.

The functionality DOES exist at the back end. So then the solution could be a limited number of locations where the back end is accessible to a small number of staff who are essentially managed and trained as if they are in the call centre - with all the checks and balances that involves.

But having said all that - most people don't ask for refunds where they are available. Most people in London just throw their myki into one of the charity bins provided at stations and airports in London when they go.

Agreed the contractor failed to deliver (understatement) - but given that the cost of keeping Metcard running was around a million dollars a week then you can appreciate the need to get myki delivered as soon as possible. The contract management for Myki has been terrible - and I hasten to add that the people who caused those issues are no longer with the Victorian Government. You have to feel sorry for the people who have tried to fix that up - who have really done a very good job in difficult contractual circumstances.
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

The central system does indeed know if a card has been reported as lost or stolen, etc. But the functionality we are talking about here is about letting a front line member of staff know this information in order to process a refund on the spot.  If someone walks up with a card, then in order to give them a cash refund, not only do you need to know that the card hasn't been reported lost, stolen, etc.. but you also need to know if the person in front of you is that registered card holder.
"Revenue"

Given that if a card is lost or damaged, it takes a number of days to get the balance transferred from the old card to the new, why wouldn't a refund of a cartd-depost be treataed the same way - it will be delivered in a week or two's time to the registered card holder, or to the person presenting the card after filling in a form. That would leave time for a stolen card to be reported.
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

If you wish to mount an argument, you don't start it off with something provably not true, otherwise all your arguments are ignored.
"duttonbay"


Would I have said what I did in a formal debating situation with an adjudicator, timekeeper, etc? No. I was merely using shorthand to make a point which is clear to you and me both (even if you disagree with it) in the casual environment of an internet conversation. I was assuming people would take it as intended, though, as I mentioned earlier, I did have a sneaking suspicion somebody wouldn't. Silly of me to give the benefit of the doubt. I should remember this lesson in future, you're right: some rivet counter will no doubt be hitting Google before my electrons are even dry on the page.
"TheLoadedDog™"


Don't worry. I am strongly of the opinion that short-term tickets should be available. Even though I can name many cities where tickets are not available of the bus or tram, on our recent travels we have not found a single city where the only option was to purchase a smart-card. We have always been able to but a single trip or one-day ticket.

Whether these tickets should be available on the vehicles themselves is another question. As a tourist, I've always been travelling from within the CBD and if tickets had to be pre-paid, they have been available at many locations.  Travelling in from the suburbs is a different situation, and one I have no experience of outside of Melbourne.

My travel patterns here in Melbourne would put me down as an infrequent traveller. Maybe once or twice a month, no more. I "purchased" a free Myki when they were first released, and reckon it's the best thing since sliced bread. I no longer need to worry about buying a metcard at the station, as my Myki is always available (with auto top-up).  So I think Myki is great, suits me down to the ground, but can understand the difficulties caused by the lack of a short-term ticket.
  Revenue Chief Commissioner

The central system does indeed know if a card has been reported as lost or stolen, etc. But the functionality we are talking about here is about letting a front line member of staff know this information in order to process a refund on the spot. If someone walks up with a card, then in order to give them a cash refund, not only do you need to know that the card hasn't been reported lost, stolen, etc.. but you also need to know if the person in front of you is that registered card holder.
"Revenue"

Given that if a card is lost or damaged, it takes a number of days to get the balance transferred from the old card to the new, why wouldn't a refund of a cartd-depost be treataed the same way - it will be delivered in a week or two's time to the registered card holder, or to the person presenting the card after filling in a form. That would leave time for a stolen card to be reported.
"duttonbay"


Sure, but that rules out letting someone hand over a card and getting an on the spot refund. So what you are actually saying is that someone should be able to submit their card for a refund and have a cheque mailed to them. Which is actually a function we offer now. The difference is that we don't refund the card deposit at the moment (eg. it effectively becomes the 'fee' for getting a cheque mailed to you). For example, if you submit a card with $4 on it for processing, you get $4 sent to you but you don't get the card deposit back.

It's less customer friendly than an over the counter top refund, but can be supported more easily with the current system.

Just pointing out that it's not as simple as it seems.
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
Thanks, Revenue. I will leave you alone now....for the time being! Very Happy



Eloquently put, Mr. Bear, and with respect to the obscene cost of this thing coming from the public purse i.e. your pocket and mine assuming we are both tax-payers. We have a report which those who know its contents are busting their chops to keep secret (and we are entitled to ask why) and we have a ticketing system which remains both full of holes and incapable of operating as we were promised it would. Add to that the several political decisions to remove parts of the whole leaving us, among other things, without short-term tickets and we have a fiasco by which history will judge those responsible and those who try to use our public transport will judge those (usually poor innocents) who staff it.
"Gwiwer"

Gwiwer,  I can't cite a reference, but I recently heard on 3AWs breakfast show Rumour File that the secrecy that surrounds Myki, and why management have inadvertently turned it into a 'problem child', is that it was set up from scratch so the Government could get it up and running, having it running with all the bells and whistles attached, and could then sell it overseas as a complete ticketing system and hopefully turn it into a cash cow. And when issues starting appearing, the Government was too far into the project to turn back, and ditch the thing.
Which is now why we have a white elephant that only partially works....V/line is yet to come totally online within the Myki system; and in the Metro region at least, Myki sells a limited range of tickets when compared with Metcard (short term tickets not available within the Melbourne metro region, and no retailing of tickets on trams).


And an intersting point to note, short term tickets can be bought on Bellarine Peninsula buses, and also Myki cards are able to be topped up with bus drivers on the peninsula as well. Not sure where else in regional Victoria this happens, but it certainly does happen down here in the Geelong region Smile
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
It isn't my role to defend every decision related to myki and I object to the implication that it is
"Revenue"


Wow. You do a great job for an amateur.
  Revenue Chief Commissioner

It isn't my role to defend every decision related to myki and I object to the implication that it is
"Revenue"


Wow. You do a great job for an amateur.
You're an expert only when it suits you, aren't you?
"Valvegear"


I share knowledge and insights when asked politely.
  Sir Thomas Bent Minister for Railways

Location: Banned
Let's deconstruct the waffle and self-serving spin for the ignorance and asre-covering that it is, shall we?

It isn't a trivial matter to give front line staff access to account details and personal information.
"Revenue"
I think what you meant to say was that Myki's budget does not support training a large number of front-line staff in Privacy Act provisions.  I've worked in banking, so I know what the provisions need to be (staff need to be able to ID customers with 100 points, Privacy Act training, and the only opposition I can see is one of costs for training, and some issues regarding anonymous cards - which is simple: only refund registered cards.

And as your name implies, your job is to try - and fail - to find ways of cutting costs.  Sort of like a clown wielding a novelty axe.

The level of complexity grows significantly. For example, all the controls about seeing who accessed what information, at what time for what purpose needs to be managed very carefully.
"Revenue"
In other words, you had a meeting with real lawyers once, and it involved spending money on staff, so hells no, girlfriend.

This then impacts on staff training and responsibilities.
"Revenue"
In other words, it costs money.

Because the money on cards is actual money (not credits) then there are banking regulations that apply.
"Revenue"
Are we supposed to be scared of the EEEEVIL BANKING REGULATIONS OF DOOOOOOM?

Nope.

Not. That. Hard - it just involves making sure staff are trained correctly.  But I'm not going to repeat myself...

Anti money laundrying laws then apply.
"Revenue"
Laundering, not laundrying.  We know your level of ignorance. Please don't make it too obvious.

There is a loophole for money-laundering. In fact, getting staff to process refunds closes that loophole.  What that loophole is - well, you're the one on the international jet-set lifestyle income.  You figure it out.

That's why this function - of refunding cards - was to be done centrally.
"Revenue"
Save me the drama: it's money.

To give front line staff access to the information required to process a refund (as opposed to swapping money from one card to another) is a MAJOR complication.
"Revenue"
Comes back to money for training staff again, doesn't it?

Bank tellers can be trained, but it's a MAJOR complication for station staff?

Bulls**t, sweetheart.

The functionality DOES exist at the back end. So then the solution could be a limited number of locations where the back end is accessible to a small number of staff who are essentially managed and trained as if they are in the call centre - with all the checks and balances that involves.
"Revenue"
Well, why not?

But having said all that - most people don't ask for refunds where they are available. Most people in London just throw their myki into one of the charity bins provided at stations and airports in London when they go.
"Revenue"
Considering that a) PTV was too proud and greedy to get Oyster b) no charity bins c) this isn't London and d) given that evidence I've heard is the exact opposite (many people ask for refunds of the remaining amounts) I'm calling spin and asre covering over the fact that another poor, accountancy-driven decision that screws over the customer was made.

And no-one cares that you've been to London.  Again, maybe go to somewhere in Melbourne instead.

Add it to the short-term tickets and the poor hardware quality (significant levels of EFTPOS reader failure a/c PTV being so tightfisted to buy the cheapest readers available is one big story on the staff level) and the poor choice of software provider and idiotic contract oversight...

Agreed the contractor failed to deliver (understatement) - but given that the cost of keeping Metcard running was around a million dollars a week then you can appreciate the need to get myki delivered as soon as possible.
"Revenue"
My Gods, that's the first time you've posted something factual, without spin and not full of self-serving boasting...

The contract management for Myki has been terrible - and I hasten to add that the people who caused those issues are no longer with the Victorian Government.
"Revenue"
Or moved somewhere else in PTV...

You have to feel sorry for the people who have tried to fix that up - who have really done a very good job in difficult contractual circumstances.
"Revenue"


Sponsored advertisement

Subscribers: Gwiwer

Display from:   

Quick Reply

We've disabled Quick Reply for this thread as it was last updated more than six months ago.