Seaford Line work

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GeoffreyHansen Minister for Railways

Location: In a FAM sleeper
pre works for the electriflycation works are starting on the seaford line and soon overhead mast will be instead from Noarlunga centre toward seaford soon.
- dawesybj


They've started putting up the electric poles at Norlunga Centre Wed 23rd May. view HERE

Regards,
- jm1941


Good to see some poles going into place. Please keep the photos coming.
 
alcoworldseries Deputy Commissioner

Location: Auburn
Before holding up the red flag for political debate that is moving this stream away from its intended purpose, I will state at least the current government has done something for the Adelaide suburban network (Trams included) after years of ineptitude and incompetance, regardless of delays due to the GFC what we have now is infinately better than when Rann was first elected in, lets not forget that, and now suggest that red flag be displayed viz political point scoring and return to progress on this project.
 
don_dunstan Chief Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
Before holding up the red flag for political debate that is moving this stream away from its intended purpose, I will state at least the current government has done something for the Adelaide suburban network (Trams included) after years of ineptitude and incompetance, regardless of delays due to the GFC what we have now is infinately better than when Rann was first elected in, lets not forget that, and now suggest that red flag be displayed viz political point scoring and return to progress on this project.
- alcoworldseries


Yeah, agreed, I've probably hijacked this thread enough with politics.

As I mentioned earlier, it's a wonderful thing that they actually got around to building the Seaford extension - I was astonished that they committed the money to build it despite that huge bridge required over the Onk river.  The tram extension was also badly needed if only to prove that Adelaide would actually use a functional tram line - when I was over last year I couldn't believe how packed it was; tourists and locals alike.  South Australia does owe Mike Rann that much... however he did turn into somewhat of a Thatcher-esque loony in the end who had to get tipped out by his own party. 



 
Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Surprised no one else has picked up on this, maybe you're all still in shock...

So it's too early for me to say 'told you so' yet, but I am telling you so now...

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/sa-government-to-halt-21bn-rail-plan-as-part-of-budget-savings/story-e6frg6n6-1226375565216
 
Bulbous Assistant Commissioner

From reading the reports about the suspension though, it seems to be only that the Gawler and Noarlunga/Seaford lines will still be done, but that the Outer Harbour line will not be started. The railcars still seem to be on their way as well, so the whole thing is not being cancelled/suspended - again, I am only going by what has been reported, I have no idea on the accuracy of the media.
 
Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
The sparks will appear to have Scharfenbergkupplung so they can be dragged by 3100/3000.
- Aaron

While the couplings may look similar, they may not be exactly the same type, they may be at different heights, and being a quarter of a century newer than the 3000/3100 they will probably not be electronically compatible.

I don't think the 3000/3100 class have enough power to drag three dead cars, and both fleets will be large enough that multiple operations combining 3000/3100 and A sets shouldn't ever be needed. That leaves no reason to bother making sure the new sets have compatible couplings, just use whatever Bombardier's current standard coupling is regardless of what the old trains have.

I expect that using another A set will probably be the normal method for rescuing a failed A set. Modern trains with electronic data connections usually have a 'mechanical-only' mode which disables electronic coupling functions and leaves only the mechanical coupling and air lines. This needs to be set on both units before coupling them for a drag, usually using a switch with a wire seal which needs to be reset at the depot on both units before they are available for regular service again.
- justapassenger


I would be extremely surprised if any of your concerns re coupling ability were to come to any event. I really like the way you mention electronically non compatible then go on to mention mechanical only... Location dependant, I think enough 3000/3100 could be used, if not we'll have the 2100s probably until 2100 (and trans couplers, because Scharfs are not compatible with autos)...

IF a new spark fails between Noarlunga and Seaford (and let's face it, that's what trials are for) and needs work are you thinking that the set will have to remain unfixed until the Noarlunga - Dry Creek section is fitted with an electron conveyance?
- Aaron


I would be extremely surprised if any of your concerns re coupling ability were to come to any event. I really like the way you mention electronically non compatible then go on to mention mechanical only... Location dependant, I think enough 3000/3100 could be used, if not we'll have the 2100s probably until 2100 (and trans couplers, because Scharfs are not compatible with autos)...
- Aaron

The new units having a different number of electrical connectors could be enough to make them mechanically incompatible with the 3000/3100 class. I'm still not seeing any problem with that because the gradients on the Noarlunga line are still a bigger concern for me regarding 3000/3100 railcars (even the maximum six of them in a line) doing tow truck duty. It would be better to think about what would be needed to rescue that kind of consist (e.g. if it failed to get up to Hallett Cove after the Field River, or the return run) and then use that option from the start instead of 3000/3100 cars.

I would back a 2000-2000 power twin set doing a rescue run with a coupling adapter over a maximum-length six car 3000/3100 set. GWA loco/s with barrier wagons would be even better, considering that this option would only be needed during testing so it could be delayed until night to avoid obstructing normal passenger traffic with the shunting required to reverse at Adelaide in the absence of a broad gauge cutoff line.
IF a new spark fails between Noarlunga and Seaford (and let's face it, that's what trials are for) and needs work are you thinking that the set will have to remain unfixed until the Noarlunga - Dry Creek section is fitted with an electron conveyance?
- Aaron

Read for comprehension buddy - I wrote about what will happen in normal service. Trials between Lonsdale and Seaford where other electric sets are able to pick it up can hardly count as normal service. Perhaps this would have been a good case for getting Adelaide to Dry Creek electrified first, so a failed set could be rescued by an identical classmate.

During testing, fix it at the new purpose-built Seaford depot - unplug, unbolt and replace. If this contract was awarded on merit (I have something like 0% confidence in this, there being no details of the tendering process available to the public and no ICAC to find out why not) then the specification would of course required that all components be removable modules to make for maximum availability, as they are on Bombardier's reasonably successful Electrostar series EMUs used in the UK. If it absolutely has to go to Dry Creek, then take it by road next time the truck drops off a new one, the annoyance of which should be enough motivation to get it done on site.

If there really are doubts about the lack of intention to electrify to Gawler, then the Seaford depot will have to be set up with the capability to do all but the heaviest work on the new sets until further notice. An electric drag to Adelaide could be replaced by a diesel drag to Dry Creek where gradients would not be of concern. This will need to be thought about anyway, with the grade separation at Goodwood coming up which will leave a whole bunch of units marooned for service between Seaford and Clarence Park or wherever else passengers are transferred to buses.
- justapassenger


G'day all

Including Justapassenger and Aaron.

Talk about comprehension? Read what I wrote earlier.

The depot at Seaford has the capability to erect (place on bogies), complete electrical fit out (complete underfloor gear, fit panto etc) test and commission the new EMUs.

A failed set need not go to Dry Creek, Seaford will have what it takes to fix it. They built it, they fix it. Long term those operation may move to Dry Creek but that may depend on wires going past Dry Creek.

I doubt Seaford will have a wheel turning lathe but even that does not mean the whole EMU set has to be dragged to Dry Creek, just the bogie or wheel set. For that matter there are workshops down south which could turn wheels.

As for cleaning, more cars are rostered away from home so cleaning will have to be done at Lonsdale, Gawler, Belair (less likely). You don't need a lot of plant, just contractors.

Back to my Corn Flakes and razor blades, I don't need Fruit Loops, there's enough here!

Regards
Ian
- steam4ian


ABC News Online"]
Too many trains cause contract headache

  Related Story: Ratings downgrade as SA budget makes deep cuts
  Related Story: Budget cut puts water quality at risk: Opposition

  Map: SA





Updated June 07, 2012 13:45:18


The Transport Department says it is unlikely to need all 66 electric trains ordered because of rail line upgrades in Adelaide that have now been suspended.

Infrastructure Minister Patrick Conlon says the electrification of rail lines will remain a priority, with work to recommence once budget revenue increases.

Transport Department CEO Rod Hook said up to $50 million had already been spent on preliminary upgrade work on lines where the projects had now been suspended.

He said there would need to be negotiations on the contract with German company Bombardier.

"We would probably not need all 66 if we're only running electric train services on the Seaford line," he said.

"But we've got a contract, we've made that order. There's some suggestion in the budget we look at reviewing that.

"We've got to work through that process with Bombardier but every electric train that comes to Adelaide we'll use."

With Seaford to be the only electrified line, Mr Hook says the only way to get the electric trains to a service depot at Dry Creek in the northern suburbs would be to tow them.

"Obviously if we've only got electric trains going to Seaford [and] our main depot is at Dry Creek, we won't be able to run those electric trains from Adelaide to Dry Creek," he said.

"If they need servicing there we'll have to tow them and we'll have some temporary facilities down on the Seaford line."
- [url=http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-06-07/rail-contract-bombadier-renegotiate/4057968?section=sa
[/url]

Above bolding by me.

I know we're not big on 'I told you so' around here, but since justapassenger is so sure that the new sparks cannot couple with a 3100/3000 with Scharfenbergkupplung fitted, or a 2100 with a trans coupler fitted perhaps they might like to inform Mr Hook, who no doubt might be able to pass along an 'I told you so'.

Likewise, it seems Ian might need to inform Mr Hook of the exact capabilities of the Seaford depot, it seems as though the good department might be unaware of exactly what it can and can't do down there...

 
steam4ian Chief Commissioner

Aaron

It looks like the temporary facilities at Seaford just might become a little more permanent.

Regards
Ian
 
ET423 Train Controller

Location: Earth
also how are they going to maintain the existing train service during the 6 month closure of the line between Keswick and Oaklands? Gawler line had the line from Mawson Lakes to Port Adelaide, no such thing exists down south. Perhaps that's what the "temporary" facilities are for  Confused
 
steam4ian Chief Commissioner

also how are they going to maintain the existing train service during the 6 month closure of the line between Keswick and Oaklands? Gawler line had the line from Mawson Lakes to Port Adelaide, no such thing exists down south. Perhaps that's what the "temporary" facilities are for  Confused
- ET423


Mate

I don't know where you've been?

The Seaford depot will be used to "erect" the new electric trains, that was why it was being built.
The section of track, Seaford to NC will be used for teting and commissioning, and I guess driver training.

Regards
Ian
 
85trainfan Train Controller

Location: If only I Knew, that would make 2 of us :)

After all the discussions, on whats been said here or there, Heres some factual info of the work going on

No more work has progressed between Noarlunga Centre and the Onkaparinga rail bridge, With all the Overhead support poles in place in this section. 2 sets of insulated joints sit in the middle of each line awaiting installation just south of the Platforms.

The Southern Deck of the Onkaparinga Rail Bridge is just one span short of the meeting point, while the Northern Deck is still 3 spans away. Permanent Hand/guard rails have been installed on approximately half the Southern Deck (didn't have a closer look at the northern deck)  Embarassed 


The Seaford Meadows Maintenance Centre (yes, the name given to it by DETI/DPTI) has the Northern Rail gates installed now, with all the lights and Security cameras installed. The main Maintenance building has Sliding doors now over the Eastern Track, while the Western track just had the door frames up. The doors have a small cut out to allow the overhead contact wire to pass through. Workers today were working on the Train wash?? (or cleaning bay).


Seaford Meadows Station now looks a bit futuristic, with the overhead walkway frame in place, and work starting on the ramps and lifts. Workers were continuing with concreting the Down platform, with half the Up platform now in place. Both Platforms have a small section of shelter installed, surprisingly almost under the overhead walkway. The "excel" loo is onsite too , just awaiting installation. The Northern car park of the Park "N" Ride now has lights (which are incredibly tall). With the Southern section still being used as a work depot by the wall shoring contractors. The Seaford Rd bridge, now has the Southern section complete, and bitumen laid on the approaches to bring it level. Shouldn't be too long before the road is shifted onto its final alignment.




The cutting between Seaford Rd and lynton Tce now has drainage contractors working in it close to Seaford Station, while the wall shoring contractors work on the retaining walls further along. Seaford Station, has the Platform area completely dug out now, with the piles for the Platforms now visible. Over the last few days, The frames for the Overhead walkway have been delivered. 3 parts are now onsite (saw a convoy headed south yesterday with the 2nd piece, while the 3rd arrived today). Workers were starting to place temporary floors inside these structures. No more work appears to taken place on the Park "N" ride car-park.




 
85trainfan Train Controller

Location: If only I Knew, that would make 2 of us :)

Not alot of new work between Noarlunga Centre and the Old Honeypot rd Bridge, apart from the landscaping contractors using the Jefferies sprayer truck to place mulch onto the sides of the embankment.


Today saw anther Bridge segment pushed out from the northern end. The Southern end is now in place and awaiting the Northern end to meet up with it. There is only 3 (or 2, depending on length) segments left to be built and pushed into placed.


No new work was noted at the Northern end of the Seaford Meadows Depot. At Seaford Meadows Station, the walkway leading to the Overhead walkway has been concreted, with the form work for the Down Platform ramp in place. I noticed today that the Up Platform only has Stairs and a Lift for access, while the down platform has a Lift,Ramp and Stairs???. Both platforms shelters now have the Orange stripe installed, and the Up Platform was getting the Tactiles laid.
Up on the Adjacent Seaford traffic is now on the original rd alignment, while the temporary rd has been ripped up and new kerbing for the Passenger drop off zone installed. Due to this change, it's harder to get photos now Sad
On a side note, If you check Nearmap (july 6th update) You can see the track that will be used to unload the new Electric Railcars, running parlell down the Eastern side of the Main Maintence shed.
 


Shoring contractors are still working in the cutting between seaford rd and Lynton Tce, while Drainage contractors are working near the Lynton tce bridge.



Seaford Station Platforms were getting the last remaining form work for the platform faces, and the walkway from the Park "N" Ride down to the Up platform and Bus interchange was being carved out of the Hill. Work is continuing on the Overhead Walkway, with the fancy stuff (forget the name of it at the moment) frame being installed on the outside of the main frame.


 
Halo Chief Train Controller

Thanks again Trainfan.
 

Surely by now the new trains would be in production, anyone with further info on timelines for the builds?

 
Heardy_101 Chief Train Controller

Location: Banned
Thanks again Trainfan.
 Surely by now the new trains would be in production, anyone with further info on timelines for the builds?

- Halo


A former user (Poxbox 3030) used to work for the metro railways, said that while originally there were plans to have the first units online by the end of THIS YEAR (I think this was also part of original plans) however I remember reading that they were coming next year. It may have been this thread (few pages back)


 
jm1941 Chief Commissioner

Location: Mount Gambier

Not alot of new work between Noarlunga Centre and the Old Honeypot rd Bridge, apart from the landscaping contractors using the Jefferies sprayer truck to place mulch onto the sides of the embankment.
- 85trainfan

Being stuck way down here in the South East (now no man's land) one has got no way to go take a peek-a-boo, so thanks for the updated pictures. Is appreciated.

Regards,

 
85trainfan Train Controller

Location: If only I Knew, that would make 2 of us :)

Update time again  Smile  Project coming along nicely, with the bridge making a big difference to the landscape now.

no new work between Noarlunga Centre and the Onkaparinga Rail Bridge, with the exception of landscaping contractors replacing the footpaths under the Old honeypot Rd Bridge. Concreting was taking place today on anther bridge segment at the Northern End, while on the completed southern end, small lights were being installed on the Hand Rails. These lights look like a permanent fixture as the wires look to be run through the handrails.


Not much new work at the  Seaford Meadows Depot, the Maintence shed is still missing it's Southern wall and doors. At Seaford Meadows Station, work was continuing on the overhead walkway sides and ramps, with some fencing on the platforms being installed.


In the cutting between Seaford Rd and Lynton Tce, shoring contractors are still working on the walls near the Seaford Rd Bridge, while the Overhead crews are installing poles adjacent Lynton tce.



At seaford station, the Platform Faces are now completed apart from the Northern end under Lynton tce. 1/3 of the overhead canopy frame has been erected over the Southern part of the platform, with more structure parts arriving today. The Park N Ride car park and the Kiss N Go are have been fully sealed, with the Lighting poles were being unloaded today. Workers were also working on the Overhead walkaway, with the side framing being installed.




 
85trainfan Train Controller

Location: If only I Knew, that would make 2 of us :)

Some photos of Today's Works.

The Last gap to be Filled on the Onkaparinga Valley Rail Bridge. Usually when the Northern Spans are pushed out, River Road is closed, usually with message boards about a week in advance. So far no signs have been spotted.


Looking back across the Bridge towards Noarlunga.


Loading Ballast at the end of Saubiers Rd (To the left of the photo is the New Railcar Depot, and behind it is Seaford Meadows Station.


Reversing up the line to drop ballast adjacent the Seaford Depot.


Seaford Meadows Station (from the Rear ) Razz


Ballast Regulator and Tamper stabled in the Depot.


Seaford Station Turnout, located just North of the Lynton Tce Bridge.


Seaford Station. Overhead walkway coming along nicely, Adelaide end of the Up Platform can now be built as the site access rd has been removed.


 
GeoffreyHansen Minister for Railways

Location: In a FAM sleeper


Thanks for the photos 85trainfan. It's great to see work on the new line progressing well.
 
David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: With Dee Dee McCall
The Bridge is supposed to come together this week and tomorrow Thursday has been bandied about as the day. I don't know if it is just rumour or fact.
 
Pressman The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
The Bridge is supposed to come together this week and tomorrow Thursday has been bandied about as the day. I don't know if it is just rumour or fact.
- David Peters


As of 11am this morning the bridge was still as 85trainfan's photo (one span left) and the leader frame was still attached.

On my way back from Aldinga, this arvo, I tried to see if anything had moved but the weather made if impossible to see that far from River Road (which was still open with 40kph limit under the bridge)
 
85trainfan Train Controller

Location: If only I Knew, that would make 2 of us :)
The Bridge is supposed to come together this week and tomorrow Thursday has been bandied about as the day. I don't know if it is just rumour or fact.
- David Peters
As of 11am this morning the bridge was still as 85trainfan's photo (one span left) and the leader frame was still attached. On my way back from Aldinga, this arvo, I tried to see if anything had moved but the weather made if impossible to see that far from River Road (which was still open with 40kph limit under the bridge)
- Pressman


Last pushed possibly pushed back to next week , on account of the bad weather.
I went down after the  morning delivery's, and nothing had moved. Not alot was happening on most of the project.
The Seaford station guys were just winding up by the looks of it, The Turnout crew were still working on the Seaford turnout. The Hi Rail truck and hoppers were stabled along side the ballast pile near Saubiers Rd.
Also, Seaford Rd will be closed this weekend 18th-19th, I'm assuming its to level up the approaches to the New bridge and re-do all the associated Kerbing.
 
85trainfan Train Controller

Location: If only I Knew, that would make 2 of us :)

Hi All,  It's been awhile since I've posted here, so alot of "newish" work to talk about.

No new work noticed between Noarlunga Centre and the Northern end of the estuary Bridge. The launching noses that were connected to the bridge spans as they were pushed out were removed from the site today. Meanwhile the crews continue to work on the bridge. The northern Half is still missing  the Overhead Support Poles, while at the southern end, a Grader was running up and down (I guessing spreading ballast, but i couldn't see any ballast pile or trucks dropping ballast). The crew erecting the Overhead Support poles were erecting the missing poles between the Seaford Meadows Depot and the Southern Bridge Abutment today.

The Launching noses ready to depart
Grader on top of the Bridge.
Erecting the Overhead Support poles.


No new work noticed at the Depot buildings, A small bitumen turnaround for road vehicles has now been sealed by the Depot Gates at the Northern end. The Seaford Meadow's Station is coming along nicely. The Walkway to Overhead Walkway now has its handrails in position, The Overhead support poles for the Depot entrance Track located between the Park N Ride and the Station are in, And the Southern Carpark is Sealed, while the Northern carpark has been Landscaped. Up on Seaford Road the Kiss N Go area is nearly ready to go,The signs are up Indicating its intended use, the temporary fencing has been removed, just awaiting the concrete barriers to be removed, and the Final Road base to be layed.. Under the Seaford Rd Bridge crews were installation the Depot entry/Exit track, with a Catch point and crossover now installed.

Seaford Meadows Park N Ride
Seaford Meadows station (Not the best shot, that damn pole  Evil or Very Mad )
Kiss N Go area on Seaford Rd
Seaford Meadows Entrance points
Close Up of the Catch Point.


No New work noticed between Seaford Rd and Lynton Tce, while at Seaford, Crews are still working on the Overhead Walkway, The ramp adjacent Lynton Tce to the Up Platform had its form work in place, just awaiting cementing. The bus interchange now has all of its gutters in place, and the Up Platform has its Tactile indicators installed. landscaping contractors are working on the crap ark Landscaping, while anther crew is building a new Pedestrian crossing on Lynton Tce.

Seaford Station
Seaford Station Park N Ride


 
justapassenger Chief Commissioner

Interesting to see a grader working on top of the bridge, I thought the would have been using slab track for that bridge.

Did you happen to notice if there is any sign of the Coast To Vines trail returning to normal detour-free use any time soon?
 
greasyrhys Chief Commissioner

Location: MacDonald Park, SA
Thanks for the update 85trainfan.
 
85trainfan Train Controller

Location: If only I Knew, that would make 2 of us :)
Interesting to see a grader working on top of the bridge, I thought the would have been using slab track for that bridge.

Did you happen to notice if there is any sign of the Coast To Vines trail returning to normal detour-free use any time soon?
- justapassenger


No sign as yet, The Temporary trail on Seaford Rd doesnt look that flash, if i was a cyclist i'd be a bit pissed off. But when the lines open, the Path will be Sealed and go under all roads, so no at grade crossings
 
justapassenger Chief Commissioner

No sign as yet, The Temporary trail on Seaford Rd doesnt look that flash, if i was a cyclist i'd be a bit pissed off.
- 85trainfan

It's horrible, I would not ride on it with a road bike and would probably still prefer the road itself even with a mountain bike.

It's still better than the significant sections of the Patrick Jonker Veloway alongside the Reynella-Darlington part of the Southern Expressway, which DPTI have maintained so badly that the rebar underneath the surface is exposed in patches. It's a real mystery though, it would be the easiest resurfacing job ever with no significant headache around detours to organise, the Veloway being closed 1-2 times a week at the moment anyway and the need to maximise the attractiveness of other non-car transport methods in readiness for the Noarlunga line being closed next year.
 

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