New locomotives

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i_know_nothing Train Controller

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-12-13/20111212-tasrail-spends-up-on-new-locos/3729208?section=tas
In this, Bob Annells is quoted as saying the new locos will handle more double than the existing fleet. I think this is suppose to say the new locos will allow more than double the current capacity, by being an addition to the existing fleet. Whats the number of currently operational loco's? 26 or 27 not including the ex QR 2150's? Would they need to have AC traction to achieve that on 2200hp a piece? I'm guessing they're expecting around 830t to 850t maximum load capacity on 1 in 40 for each unit.
 
i_know_nothing Train Controller

In the ABC video clip, the Downer spokesman says there are two types, a 16t axle load and 18t axle load. No mention of mix though.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-12-13/tasrail-replaces-fleet/3729852
 
DQ2004 Chief Commissioner

Location: Hobart -where the rain has lumps in it
Additional information has been posted on TasRail's Facebook page.
Some pertinent points cut & pasted below:

Downer Rail and their partner Progress Rail Services USA have been selected as the successful supplier, following an extensive Tender Process that started with an EOI back in March 2011.   No bids were received for Australian manufacture via either the EOI or Tender process.

Progress Rail will design the PR22L TasRail locomotive (modified for Tasmanian conditions) in Chicago USA with manufacture at their Patterson Georgia USA facility.  Downer will provide design support for the requirements of Australian standards, delivery support, commissioning, training and ongoing support.

Total cost of the locomotive project is in excess of A$60 million.  The unit price of the locomotives remains commercial in confidence.

No pictures or drawings of the new locomotives are currently available.  The technical performance specifications of the new locomotives are confirmed but the final design remains subject to final design review process to be completed over the next six months.

Individual trailing tonnes will increase from an average of 480 tonnes to 750 tonnes (indicative for a train operating on the North South Line)
Total freight haul capacity on the Main Line improved from 1.9 million tonnes to 3.6 million tonnes annually

Some of the benefits listed
-New build to TasRail specification and design
-Single locomotive design able to convert between configurations for operation of axle load (16 tonne Melba Line and 18 tonne Mainline)
-2 locomotives per consist
-Maximum, haulage capacity of 750 tonnes
-Planned schedule maintenance cycle of 180 days
-Significant fuel and emission savings (10-14% improvement )
-Improved performance through tunnel operations
-Superior driver safety including improved collision protection in design
-Capable of Bio Diesel (B40 fuel) should technology advance/fuel become readily available

Technical features:
The PR22L locomotive offers a fully integrated locomotive design compliant with Australian Standards , with all components well proven in rail applications and designed to work together s a true locomotive system.
The locomotive will be built with newly constructed, proven design frame and bogies, Caterpillar engine, high speed alternators and modern microprocessors and electronic controls.

Some of the technical features include (but not limited to)

Proven locomotive underframe based on electro Motive Diesel (EMD) GT26 export locomotive of which hundreds have been built over many years

An EMD GHC style 3 motor bogies with single shoe lever style brake rigging for mainline operations– highly proven design used by many rail operators around the world including those with narrow gauge and very tight curve railway applications

Locomotive power provided by a Caterpillar 3512 engine with EU Stage IIIA emissions  Kato generator, a combination used in many rail applications.  There are over 7000 locomotives powered by  3500 Series Caterpillar engines in the world

Locomotive controlled by the Progress Rail owned Zeit Locomotive Control System which has proven applications on hundreds of locomotives.  This system will control power to EMD designed D43 traction motors

Electrically driven air compressor

Cab equipped with heat, air conditioning, seats and combination console and side stand control to accommodate 180-degree view during operation

Zeit Electronic
- TasRail


...so from that the PR22L designation looks to have nothing to do with the Genset PR22b locos!
I would guess that the alterable axle-loads will be to do with fuel tank loading and capacity, as per other loco designs.

Regards,

Toby
 
Z1NorthernProgress2110 Chief Commissioner

Location: Burnie, Tasmania
Interesting stuff. Looking forward to "if" planned drawings.

Looking at the Cat range, a 3512B EHP (or EIP?) primemover? Seems that way.
 
M636C Minister for Railways



Downer is already importing carriage shells from China, what is to stop them from importing finished locomotive shells from a low wage source, then completing and commissioning in Australia, to incorporate a level of local content?

- jmt


The 90 class for NSW was fully imported from Canada in the 90s.
- Rowallan


But the final four were assembled from pretty much complete kits on Australian built frames in 2005, presumably because it was cheaper to do that. There was a desire to get the 90 class very quickly in 1994, too...

M636C
 
2002 Locomotive Fireman
 
BP4417 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Launceston, Tasmania
This is an interesting link
http://www.wheelsonsteel.com.au/showthread.php?tid=6119&pid=91658#pid91658
However the stated haulage capacity on the South Line for the new x 2 Locomotives is 750 Tonnes seems strange when according to the old load tables 3X's = 710 tonnes, 3Y's = 810 tonnes, and 2Z or ZA's was 1320 tonnes and 1 poor old steamer was 210 tonnes.
If this is the case it just goes to show what a good buy the Z's and ZA's were until they couldn't be bothered keeping up the maintenance on them.
 
SPSD40T2 Chief Commissioner

Location: Platform 9-3/4 and still waiting !!
Great  link there BP4417

doesnt look like they are gensets but a  variation on the GT26 but with CAT power
 
Z1NorthernProgress2110 Chief Commissioner

Location: Burnie, Tasmania
Would these be brand new frames or recycled?
 
jmt Assistant Commissioner

To be built at Progress Rail's Patterson Georgia plant

Just c&p Patterson, Georgia into the Google Earth search box

Premises are 2km NE of the Dorp (31°23'58.20" N  82°07'22.95" W)

Tasrail's East Tamar shops look positivity huge in comparison!

PR must be chasing a cheap hourly labour rate if they intend using this shed in the wilds of rural Georgia
 
M636C Minister for Railways

This is an interesting link
http://www.wheelsonsteel.com.au/showthread.php?tid=6119&pid=91658#pid91658
However the stated haulage capacity on the South Line for the new x 2 Locomotives is 750 Tonnes seems strange when according to the old load tables 3X's = 710 tonnes, 3Y's = 810 tonnes, and 2Z or ZA's was 1320 tonnes and 1 poor old steamer was 210 tonnes.
If this is the case it just goes to show what a good buy the Z's and ZA's were until they couldn't be bothered keeping up the maintenance on them.
- BP4417


Given that it states:

"Individual trailing tonnes will increase from an average of 480 tonnes to 750 tonnes"

That "individual" suggests that it is 750 tonnes per locomotive...

M636C
 
i_know_nothing Train Controller

This is an interesting link
http://www.wheelsonsteel.com.au/showthread.php?tid=6119&pid=91658#pid91658
However the stated haulage capacity on the South Line for the new x 2 Locomotives is 750 Tonnes seems strange when according to the old load tables 3X's = 710 tonnes, 3Y's = 810 tonnes, and 2Z or ZA's was 1320 tonnes and 1 poor old steamer was 210 tonnes.
If this is the case it just goes to show what a good buy the Z's and ZA's were until they couldn't be bothered keeping up the maintenance on them.
- BP4417


Given that it states:

ƒn"Individual trailing tonnes will increase from an average of 480 tonnes to 750 tonnes"

That "individual" suggests that it is 750 tonnes per locomotive...

M636C
- M636C

That puts the Z/ZA's at 660 tonnes each, somewhat more than they're rated at now. Maintenance issues? As for the 3500 series Cat, they failed dismally in fast ferry applications that the RK engines managed to fill. Caterpillar left the segment but are trying to break back in. Ten years of development may help. I was hoping the EMD 8-710 would be the pick. Commonality and all that. Too many accountants involved perhaps? But then, as Sargent Schutz said, i_know_nothing!
 
M636C Minister for Railways


That puts the Z/ZA's at 660 tonnes each, somewhat more than they're rated at now. Maintenance issues? As for the 3500 series Cat, they failed dismally in fast ferry applications that the RK engines managed to fill. Caterpillar left the segment but are trying to break back in. Ten years of development may help. I was hoping the EMD 8-710 would be the pick. Commonality and all that. Too many accountants involved perhaps? But then, as Sargent Schutz said, i_know_nothing!
- i_know_nothing


Well, not nothing, perhaps, but you are wrong about the ferries....

The less than successful fast ferry engines were the very much bigger Caterpillar 3600 series, which were equally unsuccessful in locomotive applications such as the MK 5000 type.

The 3500 has been used successfully in many locomotives, including many of the pre-genset switchers built by Motive Power. It is available for small ships and was actively considered for re-engining of the Fremantle class patrol boats (but at the expense of a reduction in power and speed compared to the MTU 538) but it is far too small for fast ferry applications.

I'd expect that it would be cheaper to buy than an 8-710ECO. The 3512 may not last as long, but the through life cost for normal accounting periods might be lower. I don't imagine they expect the locomotives to last 40 years, which EMD engines frequently attain.

M636C
 
i_know_nothing Train Controller

Ah yes. I cocked up there. The C280 is what they are trying to get back into the market with. Wonder how a C280-6 would go in a locomotive?From what I can gather, Caterpillar engines are relatively low initial purchase price but tend to have very expensive parts prices. From people who deal with them, but it could be a Furphy.
Perhaps i do know something, but maybe just enough to get myself into trouble! Laughing
 
tasrail2100 Chief Commissioner

Location: Brisbane, Queensland.
Also if it is Cat powered, meens an ever more non standardised fleet. EEs with EMDs now with Cat? Seems very weird to me.
- A user


Well the EE's will be withdrawn so will be back to two different makes and thats not to say that the EMD's will remain either in the longer term.
- SP7

For what it's worth, the local ABC News reported the purchase, and the spokesman for TasRail said that the fleet of 35 locomotives would be replaced by 17 new locos. That suggests a totally homogeneous fleet after the deliveries are complete - but who can ever believe TV News reports...
- duttonbay


Sounds odd that TasRail would do that after just purchasing four of QR's 2150 class.
- CodyW


Agreed.  I think the non-compatible stuff will be on its last legs however.

http://www.themercury.com.au/article/2011/12/14/284531_tasmania-news.html
 
tasrail2100 Chief Commissioner

Location: Brisbane, Queensland.
There has been a bit uploaded to the Tasrail website this morning.

http://www.tasrail.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=152&Itemid=161
 
SPSD40T2 Chief Commissioner

Location: Platform 9-3/4 and still waiting !!
I would be surprised if 17 locos is going to foot the bill for everything needing pulling  on Tas rails.  There may welll be cascading of duties etc.

The new power will go to premium serives . The best of the rest wil lget used where a good fit will exist.

A loco is just a beast of burden. If its in reasonable knick and can pull a load it will get used.

Theres near on 3 years till all the newbies will be on deck so a few good miles is still required of the exisitng fleet. .

Not many railways put all eggs in one basket  Wink
 
RTT_Rules Minister for Railways

Location: Dubai UAE
I would be surprised if 17 locos is going to foot the bill for everything needing pulling  on Tas rails.  There may welll be cascading of duties etc.

The new power will go to premium serives . The best of the rest wil lget used where a good fit will exist.

A loco is just a beast of burden. If its in reasonable knick and can pull a load it will get used.

Theres near on 3 years till all the newbies will be on deck so a few good miles is still required of the exisitng fleet. .

Not many railways put all eggs in one basket  Wink
- SPSD40T2


- 2 trains headed sth and nth each day, thats 12 locos
- EBR could be run with MKA's
- Cement train MKA
- Then you still have the 4 QR locos wtc for Fingal and BB services.

Probably more than enough for now.

AND No thats not how I believe they will be rostered, just used for counting purposes.

Regards
Shane
 
RTT_Rules Minister for Railways

Location: Dubai UAE
This is an interesting link
http://www.wheelsonsteel.com.au/showthread.php?tid=6119&pid=91658#pid91658
However the stated haulage capacity on the South Line for the new x 2 Locomotives is 750 Tonnes seems strange when according to the old load tables 3X's = 710 tonnes, 3Y's = 810 tonnes, and 2Z or ZA's was 1320 tonnes and 1 poor old steamer was 210 tonnes.
If this is the case it just goes to show what a good buy the Z's and ZA's were until they couldn't be bothered keeping up the maintenance on them.
- BP4417


750 each maybe?
 
SPSD40T2 Chief Commissioner

Location: Platform 9-3/4 and still waiting !!
There is the matter of growing the business too.  Who knows. As customers get to see what TR can do with decent enough equipment it becomes much easier to sell the idea of putting stuff back on rail.

Railways, ( freight ) arent much about shiny shiny trains.. theyre about ones that get from A to B on the advertised...each and every time.  

The PR dept producing the glossy brochures and websites will like some shots of glistening new locos but. The Power  Distribution people wont care much providing theyre looked after and working.

These new Locos WILL have stablemates.  No Railway is going to pension of decent workable Engines ahead of time.

Good luck to TasRail Smile
 
SPSD40T2 Chief Commissioner

Location: Platform 9-3/4 and still waiting !!
Apologies if I missed it somewhere but whats the HP of thses things ?
Are we to aumme the 22 refers to 2200 hp ?   seems a bit lower if so that the ideal of some 3000 as an ideal mooted many moons ago.
 
DQ2004 Chief Commissioner

Location: Hobart -where the rain has lumps in it
Apologies if I missed it somewhere but whats the HP of thses things ?
Are we to aumme the 22 refers to 2200 hp ?   seems a bit lower if so that the ideal of some 3000 as an ideal mooted many moons ago.
- SPSD40T2


Good question although as has already been proven the 22 seems not related to the gensets despite being closest designation to Progress Rail's other projects, therefore it may be nothing to do with the power output either!

One certainly hopes they will be closer to 3000hp rather than just 2200hp!

Regarding the existing fleet CEO Damien White had indicated in meetings that they were intending to retain some of the existing locos as a standby fleet.  It seems pretty obvious that the new ex-QR 2150s will be retained along with the two D's, and given half the DQ's have been repainted they will also be hanging around.  The two Y's look likely to be staying around for a bit too, I suspect.  Everything else... get photos while you can is my advice.

Regards,
Toby
 
jmt Assistant Commissioner

In Progress Rail nomenclature the number in the classification refers to HP, and that single engine, and multiple engine locomotives use a similar classification. The PR22L (Cat 3512) is 2200HP. To date PR have constructed so few new locos that they have not required a complex naming system.

What has not been raised so far, is that the 3512C/Kato power pack, admittedly with a revised cooling group, will shoehorn into any of Tasrail's existing Clyde/EMD fleet. so there is an easy upgrade path for geriatric motive power, which could give the standardisation a number of you are calling for.

Stated in the press release, engine maintenance is contracted to William Adams.
 
i_know_nothing Train Controller

Contract would include one or more spare engines. Swap over and straight to Bill for overhaul.
 
catd2 Station Staff

Location: Devonport
What will the future hold for 2100 and 2101 then ? EE traction motors and engines.
 

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