Extra Colac Services

 
  SamTheMan79 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Geelong
This appeared in the Geelong Advertiser this morning-

http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au/article/2010/05/26/176621_news.html

Could this happen once the extra 3 car velocity's are delivered and a loop or two are re-instated on the W'Bool line?

Sponsored advertisement

  aussiebbq Assistant Commissioner

Location: Ballarat, Australia
Sorry just needed to point this out.

From that article:

Civic leaders say disruptions caused by work to duplicate the Princes Highway between Geelong and Colac highlighted the need for more train services


Just wanted to point out the irony.
  DalyWaters Chief Commissioner

and don't forget this bit that ensures the dog is chasing his tail all the time:

, including a supplementary coach service to provide the extra connections to Geelong while upgrades to rail infrastructure take place."
  Lance-Fieldline Train Controller

Location: Stalybridge Station Buffet
Why not convert the Warnambool trains to 2x3VL and detach 1x3VL at Colac?

The 1x3VL at Colac then runs to Geelong (connect to/from Melbourne) and return to Colac in under the time it takes for the Warnambool portion to go to Warnambool and back to Colac.

Then reattach at Colac to form a 2x3VL back to Melbourne.

The result is 3 trains Colac to Geelong (connect to/from Melbourne) and return & 3 Trains Colac to Melbourne and return.

Or are they considering a more expensive and convoluted solution.  Rolling Eyes

Cheers
Lance
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Seems a typical Council, nice to have the train but would they use it . Weird line of argument we need more trains, whilst the Highway is duplicated . So when the Highway is doubled we will go back to our cars ?  One suspects so.

Best thing VLP can do is with existing stock working it harder, they can run today on the existing infrastructure a fourth return Warrnambool  service each day .  1500 Dn ex Sthn Cross , crossing the Evening Up at Camperdown, and something like an 0920 Up Warrnambool also crossing at Camperdown  with the 0745 Dn . That would give a 1600 Dn ex Geelong to Colac, and something like a 1045 Up ex Colac to Geelong .

Colac would struggle to fill a bus to Geelong even at peak hours on its own, as the Warrnambool line is unique in that over 50 % of the patronage beyond Marshall travels to or from  Warrnambool itself .

So if Colac gets any extra services itself then they will be bus, and any extra train services will go all the way to Warrnambool .
  DalyWaters Chief Commissioner

So if Colac gets any extra services itself then they will be bus, and any extra train services will go all the way to Warrnambool .


And the bus would need to go through to Warrnambool too.
Every Sunday night, two to three buses are needed for the 1710 Geelong to Warrnambool service.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

If three buses are required for the late afternoon Down service from Geelong on Sundays that says that VLP should be running the 1600 Dn Geelong through to Warrnambool as a train, crossing an adjusted Sunday evening Up at Camperdown .  Balanced by a  Sunday  early afternoon Up train ex Warrnambool .

IIRC VLP were looking at putting on a third train each way on Sundays , but have gone quiet on it recently .

Now that VLP have a lot of extra new cars, and with a State Election approaching one would expect a new VLP timetable later this year that incorporated things like :  
1. Fourth train each way on Weekdays on Warrnambool, Shepparton, Albury, and Bairnsdale lines .
2. Day return rail service from Melbourne to Echuca on Weekdays.
3. Third Weekday train each way on Swan Hill Line.
4. Additional shoulder peak services on Inter-urban routes .
5. Increased off-peak frequency on Geelong and Melton lines.
  mm42 Chief Train Controller

It's great the Council are taking up the lobbying, because there are few other groups equipped to do so.  The government don't like to be seen to listen to lobby groups like PTUA.  Besides it looks great if the Council can achieve something that doesn't need to come from rates.

The current service is great from someone commuting from Colac to Geelong in the morning, but simply not an option for the return trip.  So at present the only option for commuters is to drive.  A service leaving Geelong about 17:15 is needed for commuters, students, those with medical apointments, shoppers, etc..  The equivalent service from Bendigo to Castlemaine is packed.

The near-useless service times from Geelong to Colac is why most of the train passengers go to Warrnambool rather than Colac.   Road traffic between Geelong and Colac is about double that between Colac and Warrnambool, so there should be sufficient passenger demand.
  fullofrubbish Assistant Commissioner

Location: Brunswick
IIRC VLP were looking at putting on a third train each way on Sundays , but have gone quiet on it recently .

Now that VLP have a lot of extra new cars, and with a State Election approaching one would expect a new VLP timetable later this year that incorporated things like :  
1. Fourth train each way on Weekdays on Warrnambool, Shepparton, Albury, and Bairnsdale lines .
2. Day return rail service from Melbourne to Echuca on Weekdays.
3. Third Weekday train each way on Swan Hill Line.
4. Additional shoulder peak services on Inter-urban routes .
5. Increased off-peak frequency on Geelong and Melton lines.
"kuldalai"


Shep would benefit more by express running Seymour-Broady and 3rd return rail on weekends more than a 4th weekday IMO. Without express running, the end to end travel time is not competitive enough against the freeway.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

With Shepparton and indeed all the Inter-City routes the services were dumbed down by VLP in the 2006 tt by adding extra stops within the Inter-City area which was plain dumb as one runs empty cars beyond the Inter-urban area to cater for Inter-urban travellers who already had  their own set of trains . VLP have created a rod for their own backs here especially on the Geelong line .  Some steps have been taken to restore express running to Warrnambool services to/from Geelong but the am Up & PM Downs are still burdened with Lara & North Geelong stops. Similarly the evening Shepparton has been expressed, but the morning Up still has to go back to express from Seymour in.  

With Shepparton services, and the existing hourly service off-peak to Seymour with DMU's , it is relatively simple and moderate cost to extend some Seymour services to originate/terminate at Shepparton . In this way Seymour could go to 4 or 5 return trips on Weekdays on the existing infra-structure , albeit the services would stop at stations on the Up side of Seymour .  A way to get around that would be to introduce a Limited Stops stopping pattern for Off-Peak Shepparton trips between Seymour & Broadmeadows. Like  Wallan, Kilmore-East  & Broadford instead of SAS.
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
Shep would benefit more by express running Seymour-Broady and 3rd return rail on weekends more than a 4th weekday IMO. Without express running, the end to end travel time is not competitive enough against the freeway.
"fullofrubbish"

And three trains per day is not not competitive against the 'travel anytime' freeway.

Frequency is more important as it's rare that someone's travel itinerary would neatly match a rail timetable (making speed comparisons meaningless).
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Why not convert the Warnambool trains to 2x3VL and detach 1x3VL at Colac?

The 1x3VL at Colac then runs to Geelong (connect to/from Melbourne) and return to Colac in under the time it takes for the Warnambool portion to go to Warnambool and back to Colac.

Then reattach at Colac to form a 2x3VL back to Melbourne.

The result is 3 trains Colac to Geelong (connect to/from Melbourne) and return & 3 Trains Colac to Melbourne and return.

Or are they considering a more expensive and convoluted solution.  Rolling Eyes

Cheers
Lance
"Lance-Fieldline"


Detaching Vlocity sets needs a 5 minute window

Reattaching Vlocity sets needs 12 minute window

Ararat bound Vlocity's detach at rear set at Ballarat enroute during the timetabled stop at Ballarat.

But I don't know of any Vlocity services attaching enroute.

Would Camperdown, Terang & Warrnambool passengers like at 5 minute stop at Colac let alone a 12 minute stop ?
  ethansx49 Chief Train Controller

Location: Warrnambool
I am not the type to encourge road use but why should Colac have more Services than Warrnambool  QuestionWink
  Lance-Fieldline Train Controller

Location: Stalybridge Station Buffet
Detaching Vlocity sets needs a 5 minute window

Reattaching Vlocity sets needs 12 minute window


Hi there

8025 is at Sunbury 14:46-14:49 to detach units

8024 up Echuca is at Bendigo 08:35-08:45 to attach units
there is also an attachment at Sunbury on the up in the afternoon.

Maybe those that smoke may take the opportunity to do so during the attachment and dividing of units.

Cheers
Lance
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Detaching Vlocity sets needs a 5 minute window

Reattaching Vlocity sets needs 12 minute window


Hi there

8025 is at Sunbury 14:46-14:49 to detach units

8024 up Echuca is at Bendigo 08:35-08:45 to attach units
there is also an attachment at Sunbury on the up in the afternoon.

Maybe those that smoke may take the opportunity to do so during the attachment and dividing of units.

Ok thanks for that.

Big cities like Bendigo, Ballarat, Geelong, etc long dwell times could be seen as ok.

Cheers
Lance
"Lance-Fieldline"
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Have been on Up Ararats that attach an additional VLocity on the front at Ballarat .  It will most likely happen every day with the Maryboroughs at Ballarat , unless VLP are going to run 4 and 5 car sets all the way out to/from Maryborough running up lots of unnecessary car kms which all add up and cost . Thats the beauty of DMU's compared to loco hauled.
  574M White Guru

Location: Shepparton
Why not convert the Warnambool trains to 2x3VL and detach 1x3VL at Colac?
"Lance-Fieldline"


Rumour is that we are going to get an additional service up here in Shepparton. Sprinter's detached, I'm told.
  Deanodriver Chief Train Controller

Location: Melbourne
I'd say one option for the Colac line would be to extend the 1640 Marshall, detaching VLocities at Marshall, and then proceeding to Colac. I'm not quite sure whether you'd build stabling for the VLocity at Colac (for an additional early up service) or run it back to Geelong/Melbourne to stable.

Of course, I'd imagine that a bus would be far more likely for this sort of service. Partly due to patronage, but mostly due to the fact that a bus is able to stop at Deakin Waurn Ponds, a train isn't. A few extra coaches at the appropriate times, and if patronage is sufficient, then consider introducing extra trains.
  SamTheMan79 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Geelong
I have just noticed this on the V/Line website-

http://www.vline.com.au/home/news/carousel/550306192/Article.aspx

Could this be the beginning of something bigger?
  beanzs27 Assistant Commissioner

Also there are connecting buses at Warrnambool to places like Hamilton and Portland which add passenger numbers needs to be extra services from warrnambool
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
I have just noticed this on the V/Line website-

http://www.vline.com.au/home/news/carousel/550306192/Article.aspx

Could this be the beginning of something bigger?
"SamTheMan79"


This is the local MP, Transport Minister Terry Mulder introducing by stealth a commuter service to Colac for his flock.

Expect a commuter rail service to Colac once those points have been re-instated and there is a car set available.

Idea Now what's the latest on that extra VLocity contract order from the Brumby administration, or is that on hold as well Question

Mike.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
This is the local MP, Transport Minister Terry Mulder introducing by stealth a commuter service to Colac for his flock.

Expect a commuter rail service to Colac once those points have been re-instated and there is a car set available.
"The Vinelander"


Is there any science behind this Mike or just scuttlebutt? Are you sure the addition of one bus makes for a new rail service?

Interesting the bus will take 31 minutes longer than the train service between the same locations Geelong and Colac. The train takes 59 minutes each way.

Makes you wonder that additional passengers might be available for a VLocity service being extended from Marshall to Winchelsea??

Idea Now what's the latest on that extra VLocity contract order from the Brumby administration, or is that on hold as well Question
"The Vinelander"


Did Brumby agree to order new motor units? We have been aware of the new centre units (84 or so??) or does this order also include new "train consists"??

--Bill
  ppiglet Chief Train Controller

I heard yesterday from a contact in the Geelong Council that this bus service was something Terry Mulder pressed for within days of getting into office, and apparently there was no reason for it not to go ahead.

Thank god.  This should've been done 15 years ago.

I understand he's now personally considering 6 locations for a new passing loop on the Colac line, and as stated above, once the location is decided and the loop constructed, extra rail passenger services, and maybe shuttles, will be introduced.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales


I understand he's now personally considering 6 locations for a new passing loop on the Colac line, and as stated above, once the location is decided and the loop constructed, extra rail passenger services, and maybe shuttles, will be introduced.
"ppiglet"


Why would these be required?  Would it not be sufficient to pass at the current stations?

I do support further services being introduced as I do believe the Colac line is under-serviced.

--Bill
  ppiglet Chief Train Controller

Why would these be required? Would it not be sufficient to pass at the current stations?


I understand there are no passes any more between Geelong and Warnambool, maybe one down towards Warnambool, but that makes it useless.  The one at Colac was straight railed a couple of years ago by the previous administration to the chagrin of the locals.

As a result, the freights to Warnambool are seriously compromised in the timeslots they can use, even trying to get past Marshall station can hold the freight in the North Geelong yards for a day, sometimes two.

Certainly no further passenger trains can be introduced until a pass, or turn around loop, is put in.

It's simple things like this that really riled the constituents down there.  And labour continually wonders why they lost the election.

Sponsored advertisement

Display from:   

Quick Reply

We've disabled Quick Reply for this thread as it was last updated more than six months ago.