South-West Rail Link costs

 
  plettner Chief Train Controller

Location: Kiama
As I understand it, the South-West Rail Link will cost $2.1 billion dollars and will extend a whole 11km.  In contrast, the new  Erfurt–Leipzig/ Halle high-speed rail link will be 123km, high speed running and will cost an estimated 2.6 billion Euro ($3.7 AUD).

Is it me or are the cost just absolutely massive compared to the German line?  

While the SWRL will get 50km/hr C-Sets, the German line will get high-speed ICE services.

How can one justify spending that kind of money on an 11km rail line?

Confused

Even allowing for a cost blow-out on the German line of 100%, they're still getting 5-6 times more rail line.

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  nadnerbster Deputy Commissioner

Location: Profundo en la Mierda
Agreed. The media has already pointed this out, comparing it to an 86km line built in WA which cost less than a billion.

It's an above-ground line in "greenfields" - not much in the way of it to demolish, no active volcanoes or oceans in the way. It's a disgraceful price tag. It's close to the Epping - Chatswood price tag for smeg's sake.

Smells like a government markup - either the government is spending too much, or the bidders are charging too much.
  plettner Chief Train Controller

Location: Kiama
They should get the German engineers to build it!
  ivahri Train Controller

What is included in the scope of works?

For example, there is a major reconfiguration of Glenflield junction going on now. How much of that is being funded from this project? There is also a large decked carpark at Glenfield plus another flyover about to start south of Glenfield.

There is a new maintenance depot being built as well. I wonder how much that is costing?

Lastly how much of this is property acquisition?

I think the price is excessive too but some of that is due to the private sector building significant risk factor in to any deal involving the current state government that has a knack of stuffing up most commercial contracts.

Cheers,

Richard
  TE2815 Minister for Railways

Location: Mission control Minto or Thirlmere
As I understand it, the South-West Rail Link will cost $2.1 billion dollars and will extend a whole 11km.  In contrast, the new  Erfurt–Leipzig/ Halle high-speed rail link will be 123km, high speed running and will cost an estimated 2.6 billion Euro ($3.7 AUD).
"plettner"
$3.70 to build a rail line Shocked , I don't think I would want to travel on that WinkLaughing

Just kiddin' with ya.

Hard to evaluate how the costs are determined sometimes really.
  mudhen455 Junior Train Controller

Quite easy to justify the costs, $2 billion for consultants and $0.1billion for the steel bits.
  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not
Also with these massive projects, Has anyone noticed how they announce the cost beforehand, And the final amount is twice as much as they said, Mind you I suppose you can't blame them, Because they may have to go about things in a completely different way to which they invisaged at the start

Kind Regards
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
As I understand it, the South-West Rail Link will cost $2.1 billion dollars and will extend a whole 11km.  In contrast, the new  Erfurt–Leipzig/ Halle high-speed rail link will be 123km, high speed running and will cost an estimated 2.6 billion Euro ($3.7 AUD).

Is it me or are the cost just absolutely massive compared to the German line?  

While the SWRL will get 50km/hr C-Sets, the German line will get high-speed ICE services.

How can one justify spending that kind of money on an 11km rail line?

Confused

Even allowing for a cost blow-out on the German line of 100%, they're still getting 5-6 times more rail line.
"plettner"


Just have a look at the price of rail projects In Victoria
  plettner Chief Train Controller

Location: Kiama
As I understand it, the South-West Rail Link will cost $2.1 billion dollars and will extend a whole 11km.  In contrast, the new  Erfurt–Leipzig/ Halle high-speed rail link will be 123km, high speed running and will cost an estimated 2.6 billion Euro ($3.7 AUD).
"plettner"
$3.70 to build a rail line Shocked , I don't think I would want to travel on that WinkLaughing
"TE2815"


Yeah, the Aussie dollar ain't that strong ! Laughing
  nadnerbster Deputy Commissioner

Location: Profundo en la Mierda
What is included in the scope of works?

For example, there is a major reconfiguration of Glenflield junction going on now. How much of that is being funded from this project? There is also a large decked carpark at Glenfield plus another flyover about to start south of Glenfield.

There is a new maintenance depot being built as well. I wonder how much that is costing?

Lastly how much of this is property acquisition?
"ivahri"


None of those, IMHO, are justifications for the price tag. They cancelled the Parramatta - Epping link because it was expected to cost 1.2 billion - that involved major tunnelling, duplification of the Carlingford line and new track all the way to Westmead.

The Epping - Chatswood line, entirely underground, cost 2.3 billion. Two bi-di tunnels, two major new junctions. 13km in length - longer than the SWRL. 10km of above ground track, even if you include both flyovers and the carpark and the maintainence centre, still shouldn't justify the cost.

Besides which, the Glenfield carpark and grade separation of the East Hills junction shouldn't be included in the scope of works for this IMHO - the carpark in particular won't benefit the new line at all.

I think the price is excessive too but some of that is due to the private sector building significant risk factor in to any deal involving the current state government that has a knack of stuffing up most commercial contracts.

Cheers,

Richard


That may be a factor, but I strongly suspect it's more to do with the private sector "ripping off" the government, and the government not doing enough to ensure they're getting value for money.
  dat581 Chief Train Controller

Location: The Shire
Makes me wonder if the government is hiding cost overruns from other projects in that $2.1Billion.
  undermine Chief Train Controller

na the govermnet does the paperwork  and works the cost throught the various departments and get all the approvals and pays for it. then places it out to tender so the process goes through the some paper work and approvals again paying the same fee's and charges and then gets' sub-contracted a few times to build the project.

it would be much cheaper if it was done in house like the other railways do overseas. but the goverment decided to sell off to private. as with all services.
  jken8476 Station Master

They should get the German engineers to build it!
"plettner"


I guess in some ways they are...John Holland is building it which is a subsidiary of Leighton Holdings which in turn is a subsidiary of Hochtief from Germany.
  jken8476 Station Master

What lines are intended to run on the SWRL? South Line and East Hills lines only, or will Cumberland Line services be resumes to a more regular timetable and also run along this line?
  balikoy Chief Commissioner

They should run one line on it and if passengers don't like it they can change at Glenfield.
Trying to run two lines on it doesn't really work.  The passenger turns up at the station and in ten minutes there is a train and it isn't the one they want so they wait another 15 minutes for the one after.
  Bob_inabottle Train Controller

What lines are intended to run on the SWRL? South Line and East Hills lines only, or will Cumberland Line services be resumes to a more regular timetable and also run along this line?
"jken8476"


Cumberland line services were cut because of a lack of rolling stock as I understand it, so unless there are more trains what can be done? maybe there will be enough after all the new sets are in service. I agree with Balikoy, for services like the Cumberland line people can change.
  simonl Chief Commissioner

Location: Brisbane
What lines are intended to run on the SWRL? South Line and East Hills lines only, or will Cumberland Line services be resumes to a more regular timetable and also run along this line?
"jken8476"


Cumberland line services were cut because of a lack of rolling stock as I understand it, so unless there are more trains what can be done? maybe there will be enough after all the new sets are in service. I agree with Balikoy, for services like the Cumberland line people can change.
"Bob_inabottle"

Speeding up the timetables would improve rolling stock utilisation.  That point was made in the Christie report.

If, as I think should be done, 4tph from Macarthur all go via East Hills, with Casula-City trains terminating at Glenfield pre-SWRL and extending to Leppington post-SWRL, then it would be a double change to reach Parramatta.  And arguably the Casula trains should also go via Regents Park, which makes it a triple change.  Not particularly attractive.

I definitely see value in the Cumberland line.  It will become a stranded investment if the Merrylands-Carlingford link goes ahead, but given that it all but is now, I don't see that that is an issue.
  balikoy Chief Commissioner

I think the Cumberland line should continue to operate from Campbelltown or Macarthur,  because, for the foreseeable future,   there are more potential users along that line between Glenfield and Macarthur  than there are along the Leppington branch.

I think you are better off increasing frequencies  to make better connections,    than trying to have infrequent trains to three different destinations.

Services to Liverpool are poor.  Its ridiculous that faster services exist from the CBD to Campbelltown which is almost 50% further from the CBD than Liverpool is.  There are three ways to get to Liverpool and they are all slow.  At least one of them needs to be made quicker.
  boxythingy Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
Services to Liverpool are poor.  Its ridiculous that faster services exist from the CBD to Campbelltown which is almost 50% further from the CBD than Liverpool is.  There are three ways to get to Liverpool and they are all slow.  At least one of them needs to be made quicker.


This is true, and perhaps the reason why some stations along the South line require one to wait in at least 30min during the off peak (if one missed the previous train). The problem is the most severe I think between Canely Vale and Merrylands are they only have one fully functional line or going to the Campbelltown way (between  with only 2tph during off peak. Whereas if someone lived between Macarthur-Glenfield, if they missed the faster East hills train and desperate, they could still catch the next South line train (trains alternate between the lines during off peak) and still get into the City quicker than just idling around waiting for the next East Hills train.

However I understand this isn't legally allowed unless one has a MyMulti3 ticket and people who live between Canley Vale-Merrylands live closer to the City than people living between Macarthur-Glenfield.

I'm guessing Campbelltown is just lucky because they decided to connect Glenfield and Holsworthy with East Hills.
  balikoy Chief Commissioner

Well I think there is about 6 trains an hour to Liverpool,  but they are all slow.   And if you live on one of the diverging parts ( where they are not all going the same way ),   then the frequency is going to be low.

I don't know what the off-peak demand is like there,  I doubt the trains are full,   but if you expect people to make changes to other trains then the low frequency is a killer for demand unless the connection points are very well coordinated.

It seems absurd to me that the best service to Liverpool is along the route which is the longest,  has the most stations,   and the lowest opportunity for limited stops services - the Bankstown Line.

It seems to me,  they should pick one principal route to Liverpool,  and make it faster.  Here's some ideas.  

Extend the six-track to Granville and run direct services that way.  CBD-Redfern-Strathfield-Granville all to Liverpool.   Run trains Lidcome-Cabramatta via Sefton as a frequent shuttle service.  Continue to run Bankstown trains to Liverpool and Lidcombe.

Build a third track from Cabramatta to Regents Park.  Have a two-tier service with trains stopping from Leppington all to Cabramatta and then express to the CBD in the peak direction using the third line.  Service to Carramar, Sefton etc using the Bankstown line services.   Consider running Granville-Cabramatta as a frequent shuttle-service.

Build a Y-junction at Glenfield  and run quicker services to Liverpool in a loop using the new quad east hills line.
  2001 Moderator The Snow Lord

Location: The road jump at Charlotte Pass. Paxman Valenta on two planks.
jken8476

You have only been here a few days, so I'll gently inform that you should avoid resurrecting old threads, without an exceptionally good reason.

The last post prior to yours was 14 months ago.

Seeing as there has been some momentum since your post, I'll keep the thread open for discussion.
  boxythingy Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
jken8476

You have only been here a few days, so I'll gently inform that you should avoid resurrecting old threads, without an exceptionally good reason.

The last post prior to yours was 14 months ago.

Seeing as there has been some momentum since your post, I'll keep the thread open for discussion.
"2001"


I thought this was the other thread regrarding the SWRL lol. I don't think they did anything wrong here, but they should've checked for a more current and latest thread.
  2001 Moderator The Snow Lord

Location: The road jump at Charlotte Pass. Paxman Valenta on two planks.
jken8476

You have only been here a few days, so I'll gently inform that you should avoid resurrecting old threads, without an exceptionally good reason.

The last post prior to yours was 14 months ago.

Seeing as there has been some momentum since your post, I'll keep the thread open for discussion.
"2001"


I thought this was the other thread regrarding the SWRL lol. I don't think they did anything wrong here, but they should've checked for a more current and latest thread.
"boxythingy"


Didn't realise there was a recent thread, I scanned the present first page and found nothing. Turns out that particular thread has slipped back to page 2, at the time of my posting.

Anyhow the folk have renewed the discussion here, so carry on ...

Let the 'other' thread slip further down the tree.
  boxythingy Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
jken8476

You have only been here a few days, so I'll gently inform that you should avoid resurrecting old threads, without an exceptionally good reason.

The last post prior to yours was 14 months ago.

Seeing as there has been some momentum since your post, I'll keep the thread open for discussion.
"2001"


I thought this was the other thread regrarding the SWRL lol. I don't think they did anything wrong here, but they should've checked for a more current and latest thread.
"boxythingy"


Didn't realise there was a recent thread, I scanned the present first page and found nothing. Turns out that particular thread has slipped back to page 2, at the time of my posting.

Anyhow the folk have renewed the discussion here, so carry on ...

Let the 'other' thread slip further down the tree.
"2001"


I was referring to this one http://www.railpage.com.au/f-t11352889-s105.htm
  jedimasterc Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
As I understand it, the South-West Rail Link will cost $2.1 billion dollars and will extend a whole 11km.  In contrast, the new  Erfurt–Leipzig/ Halle high-speed rail link will be 123km, high speed running and will cost an estimated 2.6 billion Euro ($3.7 AUD).

Is it me or are the cost just absolutely massive compared to the German line?  

While the SWRL will get 50km/hr C-Sets, the German line will get high-speed ICE services.

How can one justify spending that kind of money on an 11km rail line?

Confused

Even allowing for a cost blow-out on the German line of 100%, they're still getting 5-6 times more rail line.
"plettner"


It's called the Australia tax. Things are for some reason more expensive here. the politicians, parties and other interests have to get their cut.

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