Lidcombe turnback

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TE2815 Minister for Railways

Location: Mission control Minto or Thirlmere

^^^ With a bit of tunnelling work they could almost link Platform 5/Turnback Road to the old Cemetary Siding.

That is a clear image too.

 
Murasaki Chief Train Controller

Location: Going sideways... in carriage DET-9216 (>ω<)

Now for the $64,000-dollar question. When the timetables are revised in 2011, and the Platform 5 used, will that mean the absolute abolition of Bankstown Loop runs and
or Liverpool~Sefton~Lidcombe passenger train runs*? I imagine such Bankstown and Inner West/South timetables would have fewer lines to read**.

* In before CountryLink Southern Line runs. (>_

 
jaseee Chief Train Controller

I believe the intention is to have all the trains from Bankstown terminate at Lidcombe and all trains from Liverpool will go via Bankstown instead. With the Liverpool turnback, this would allow them to run more trains from Liverpool (hopefully anyways!). It would mean that people would need to change at Birrong (but with more frequent trains this should be OK).

This should allow there to be more "through" services on the South and Western lines via Platforms 3/4 at Lidcombe. This increase will hopefully cater for the people who will be alighting from the terminating trains on Platform 5.

 
awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney

In below image the line of which I speak runs off Platform 4, in front of the signal box (red roof) and now dead ends before crossing Railway Street. Sure it used to run back further in the 80's/90's.

Has that road been removed  since this image may have been taken, or has it been closed to traffic. Turnback diagram I have seen still seems to have 711B points on main line to access road, but these may just be a runaway catchpoint Wink

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Lidcombe,+New+South+Wales,+Australia&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=28.472892,56.162109&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Lidcombe+New+South+Wales,+Australia&ll=-33.864447,151.047447&spn=0.001817,0.005472&t=h&z=18/quote

Nearmaps has a hopefully more up to date version (16 Sept 2010):
http://www.nearmap.com/?ll=-33.86424,151.046696&z=19&t=k&nmd=20100916

I think it shows the catchpoint - Hope it helps

cheers

- TE2815

Before say 2000, the Cemetery Siding ran into the Rookwood, and the portion of Railway St east of the roundabout did not exist.

To allow Railway St to be extended and join up with the next road 500m away, the Cemetery Siding was truncated.

- arctic
 
drwaddles In need of a breath mint

Location: Newcastle

^ That's correct, except that Railway Street was built in the mid 1980s.

 
Oldfart Chief Commissioner

Location: Right base for BK 11R

With a bit of tunnelling work they could almost link Platform 5/Turnback Road to the old Cemetary Siding.

- TE2815

Yeah almost, but not quite. I wait for trains on platform 4 quite regularly. The road drops down noticeably off the bridge on that side, so you'd have to drop the track or rework the bridge and its approaches. Anything's possible for a price, but you'd have to have a good reason to make it connect with the old cemetery siding.

 
parraeel Chief Train Controller

I have found a few references to the new Turnback road at Lidcombe

Run 51-R (8S) (Empty) will run as tabled to passing Sefton Park Jctns 1901, XTR arrive Lidcombe 1907, Forms or Destination 51-S

Run 51-S (M to F) (8S) (Empty) will TR depart Lidcombe 1917, passing Sefton Park Jctns 1923, Leightonfield 1926, arrive Villawood Turnback 1929, Forms or Destination 51-T 1936. (TCR 311).

Run 36-G (8T) (Pass) will run as tabled to depart Regents Park 0942, XTR arrive Lidcombe 0947=, Forms or Destination 36-H 1042

Run 36-J (M to F) (8T) (Empty) will BP depart Liverpool 1112 XUM, passing Liverpool North T/B 1113, Cabramatta Junction 1117, Leightonfield 1123, Sefton Park Jctns 1128, XTR arrive Lidcombe 1135, Forms or Destination 36-K 1150. (TCR 311).

These are a few examples

A look at the STN reveals a few more movements in and out of the turnback road at Lidcombe.

 
nadnerbster Deputy Commissioner

Location: Profundo en la Mierda

"The curves are too sharp for turnouts!"

- They

"The retaining wall isn't strong enough and they'll have to demolish the carpark!"

- They

They have been silenced:





 
michinyon Chief Commissioner

I believe the intention is to have all the trains from Bankstown terminate at Lidcombe and all trains from Liverpool will go via Bankstown instead. With the Liverpool turnback, this would allow them to run more trains from Liverpool (hopefully anyways!). It would mean that people would need to change at Birrong (but with more frequent trains this should be OK).

- A user

So 4 trains now to travel from Croydon to Chester Hill ?

 
Maikha - Moderator Not a gunzel

nadnerbster, thanks for sharing those photos! Smile

Is the new turnback being used now, or when is that expected to take place?

 
jedimasterc Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned

I believe the intention is to have all the trains from Bankstown terminate at Lidcombe and all trains from Liverpool will go via Bankstown instead. With the Liverpool turnback, this would allow them to run more trains from Liverpool (hopefully anyways!). It would mean that people would need to change at Birrong (but with more frequent trains this should be OK).

This should allow there to be more "through" services on the South and Western lines via Platforms 3/4 at Lidcombe. This increase will hopefully cater for the people who will be alighting from the terminating trains on Platform 5.

- jaseee

no that is not the case. There will still be a via regents park train.

that turnback is purely for terminating Bankstown trains only.

 
nadnerbster Deputy Commissioner

Location: Profundo en la Mierda

nadnerbster, thanks for sharing those photos! Smile

Is the new turnback being used now, or when is that expected to take place?

- Maikha

You're welcome!

Well they could use it if needed (trackwork, disruption etc) - everything's commissioned. But at present it's only rail cleaning jobs going in there (such as the train seen in the photographs). I got there a bit late, I did hear there were passengers on that one when it arrived due to some disruption or other - not sure how true that is, but it certainly left empty.

 
simonl Chief Commissioner

Location: Brisbane

So 4 trains now to travel from Croydon to Chester Hill ?

- michinyon



That is my understanding, or 1 train via Circular Quay.  Not sure why it's a big deal though.

no that is not the case. There will still be a via regents park train.

- jedimasterc



What are you saying?

 
drwaddles In need of a breath mint

Location: Newcastle

So 4 trains now to travel from Croydon to Chester Hill ?

- michinyon

If your obsession is how many changes you need to make, you can do it without moving off your seat via Circular Quay. It would appear that I win at life? Well, at least at stupid arguments anyway.

 
michinyon Chief Commissioner

Its not an obsession.  A pretty straightforward question which nevertheless seems to have attracted two contradictory answers.

Are there going to be any trains to Liverpool via the Berala section,  or not ?

 
Murasaki Chief Train Controller

Location: Going sideways... in carriage DET-9216 (>ω<)

So [I need] 4 trains now to travel from Croydon to Chester Hill ?

- michinyon



If I recall correctly, had not some South Line trains on the weekend been made to stop at Croydon since the 10/10/10 timetable? If so, would this eventually extend to weekday services, so that one only needs three trains* at worst**?

* Changing at Lidcombe, and again at Birrong.

** For one change, ride Croydon~Granville~Liverpool, then change at Liverpool for Chester Hill.

 
nadnerbster Deputy Commissioner

Location: Profundo en la Mierda

All this 3 and 4 trains Croydon to Chester Hill business is a bit premature.

The turnback is open. The timetable has not been changed in a way that will affect passengers yet. It is quite possible the 4 train scenario will be addressed in some way, shape or form before the timetable comes in around April. Homebush isn't commissioned yet either and I'd suspect both need to be in use before the change is made.

Yes, a number of south line trains stop at Croydon. That has been the case since at least 2005, though the number of trains stopping there tends to vary. There are even some that stop ash-croy-bur-strat.

 
jedimasterc Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned

So 4 trains now to travel from Croydon to Chester Hill ?

- michinyon



That is my understanding, or 1 train via Circular Quay.  Not sure why it's a big deal though.

no that is not the case. There will still be a via regents park train.

- jedimasterc



What are you saying?

- simonl

I'm saying that is a stupid idea and will not happen. If your travelling from liverpool or cabramatta why should I have to get off a train just to change to go to regents park. when I used to be able to go all the way through without having to do so.

I'm saying that your idea of them cancelling via regents park trains from liverpool is not going to happen.

 
Oldfart Chief Commissioner

Location: Right base for BK 11R

I'm saying that your idea of them cancelling via regents park trains from liverpool is not going to happen.

- jedimasterc

I don't think that's 'his idea'. The loss of the Regent's Park services (which only operate during the peak now) has been on the cards for quite a while; being mentioned more than a decade ago in the Christie Report. My only gripe is that it hasn't all been done years ago (albeit probably there still isn't sufficient rolling stock to provide the additional services it allows).

The removal of Bankstown line services east of Lidcombe is an entirely sensible move that will open up several new paths for peak western and south line services. The numbers who will benefit from that far outweighs the few needing to make a change at Birrong. The latter is already the case on weekends. If I miss a Warwick Farm to Lidcombe South Line service I have often caught the following Bankstown service and changed at Birrong with only a couple of minutes delay. Don't do it as much now as the weekend South Line services have been increased to 4 tph for much of the time.

 
michinyon Chief Commissioner

I'm saying that your idea of them cancelling via regents park trains from liverpool is not going to happen.

- A user

it is not just some idea he came up with,   that the liverpool via regents park trains be cancelled.

The Government has in the past said that this is what will happen,   although they didn't say it very clearly.

 
jedimasterc Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned

since when have they been talking about that. This is the first I have ever heard about this. for what reason is this a sensible move.

the regents park line could be the quickest into the city from liverpool if regents park line trains didn't have to stop all stations into the city from strathfield onwards.

 
simonl Chief Commissioner

Location: Brisbane

Ha!  Five trains Chester Hill to Pennant Hills via the most direct route.  Although, why you wouldn't go through Central isn't clear.

Up to six trains to Asquith, if you insist on the most direct (not fastest) route and can't get an interurban from Strathfield

 
simonl Chief Commissioner

Location: Brisbane

I'm saying that is a stupid idea .

- jedimasterc



It's not, for reasons others have alluded to.  It allows more paths on the Lidcombe-Wynyard corridor for trains from the South, Western and lower Northern lines.

via Villawood & Regents Park may be reasonably quick to Lidcombe compared to via Granville or via Bankstown, but there isn't much in it, and there are only limited paths in the CBD.

 
simonl Chief Commissioner

Location: Brisbane

Post this turnback, is there much merit in running 2tph off peak Liverpool-Lidcombe via Villawood?  4tph on all of the line!  Probably wouldn't be a 15 minute frequency at Berala & Regents Park.

 
michinyon Chief Commissioner

My two observations:

( and I don't really care because I don't often visit that area,  but I used to live there ).

These proposed changes make local point-to-point journeys almost prohibitively slow in many cases.  Not just Croydon to Chester Hill but also from the inner west and bankstown line to Flemington in particular.  Seen how many people go to the market by train ?

Second opinion is that the shortest route to Liverpool is the Regents Park route.   Train time to Liverpool is poor compared to Campbelltown or Blacktown because of the slow trains.   So they should use the shortest route !    There are more possibilities for some of the trains to skip stations between Lidcombe and CBD  compared to the Bankstown line.

 

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