Next new timetable

 
  Kerpal Deputy Commissioner

Does anyone know when the next timetable update will occur and what changes are likely?

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  heisdeadjim Chief Commissioner

I think one is iminent, as to precisely when I dunno.
  sparkdriver Assistant Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
From what i've heard there's supposed to be a new one this month - but i heard that when the new June timetable came out (that the next one would be in August).
  Kerpal Deputy Commissioner

So other than short-starters from Laverton, what else can we expect?
  712M Chief Commissioner

So other than short-starters from Laverton, what else can we expect?
"Kerpal"


Short-starters from Brighton Beach?
  alstom_888m Chief Commissioner

Location:
Why?
  712M Chief Commissioner

Why?
"alstom_888m"


Because if you read in another thread to do with works taking place at Brighton Beach, Metro want to start trains at Brighton Beach from platform 1. This could give Sandringham line a 5 minute frequency during peak times, it is difficult to add extra services at the moment due to the single platform at Sandringham, and peak trains are very busy at the moment.
  calt Chief Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
May we summon our timetable experts on this forum please ;p?
  sparkdriver Assistant Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
From what i've heard on the rumourfile the June and August timetables are merely band aid solutions that were originally thought up by Connex and have been amended by MTM. The first new timetable by MTM will be out next year.
  RailwayBus Locomotive Driver

Why?
"alstom_888m"


Because if you read in another thread to do with works taking place at Brighton Beach, Metro want to start trains at Brighton Beach from platform 1. This could give Sandringham line a 5 minute frequency during peak times, it is difficult to add extra services at the moment due to the single platform at Sandringham, and peak trains are very busy at the moment.
"712M"


You'd need more trains (and drivers) before that can be achieved.
  Kerpal Deputy Commissioner

Metro already have more trains than Connex.  By running a few more short-starters, Metro should be able to squeeze in some extra runs with the existing drivers and trains ...

I am looking forward to the first MTM timetable prepared by their "experts" from HK ...
  Gwiwer Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid

Location: Loitering in darkest Somewhere
Wonder how the experts from HK are planning to squeeze all these trains through without some pretty major resignalling?

And for the Sandys what is the practical minimum turnback at Flinders Street across platforms 12 and 13?  It's all very well planning a train every 5 minutes (for example) but not if it can't be turned back at both ends of the run.

I recall there was discussion a while ago on this subject and it was conjectured that a 5-minute service to Brighton Beach and 10 to Sandy would be difficult to timetable.  The reasons being that in order to achieve a satisfactory turnback at Sandy of between 5 and 8 minutes the up would conflict with the crossing of the down into the dock at Brighton Beach.

From the same discussion I believe it was suggested that a 7-8 minute service (every 15 to Sandy) was about the best that could be achieved without a second platform at Sandringham as well.
  calt Chief Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
Is there any chance of Metro lobbying the state government for grade separation of flat junctions?

Level crossing separation is one thing, our trains need clear paths as well!
  Gwiwer Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid

Location: Loitering in darkest Somewhere
Which junctions did you have in mind?

There are very few if any which would materially improve capacity and performance which could be grade-separated without massive works, property resumptions and expenditure of billions.

I know we're spending almost a billion and a half dollars to provide a ticketing system which it might be argued is money better spent elsewhere but we are also stuck with politicians who hold all the strings, don't realise they hold any and in general care even less.

There is one small piece of infill electrification which might make operation of the western lines more flexible.  If the high-level route (already used by some Craigieburn trains) also had the wires brought down to South Kensington it might give some additional capacity that way.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Will not happen as that is the ramp to be used for the non electrified RRL track pair between North Melbourne and South Kensington .
  tomohawk Chief Commissioner

Location: Getting The Met to get around
That route doesn't really help much, to be honest. You actually end up introducing more conflicts.
  Tonzo Train Controller

Location: Nunawading, Vic
From the horse's mouth, Andrew Lezala CEO Metro, is quoted at:
http://www.metrotrains.com.au/About-Us/News/New-Metro-timetable-to-deliver-211-new-and-extended-services-.html as saying:

"This is the first of two changes scheduled for this year, with the second change later in the year to deliver more services to the Craigieburn, Sydenham and Werribee lines, and work on the Laverton rail project has been fast-tracked in line with that."


Also, at http://junetimetable.metrotrains.com.au/faq.php an answer to a similar question is given as:
Later in 2010 phase two of the timetable improvements will occur with more services to the Craigieburn, Werribee and Sydenham lines. From then on, there is expected to be one or two timetable changes per year.
  gobillino Junior Train Controller

Location: Melbourne
Does anyone know whether the new timetable is likely to incorporate an increase in night time frequency? 30 mins on most lines after 7.30 really is a joke. And during summer a 10pm train can be nearly as packed as a peak hour service on some lines - even when they run them as a 6 car.

I know at the moment Metro would be constrained even if they wanted to run more post peak services - it'd have too much of an impact on their maintenance program. But when they've got their 39 new trains, and if they can achieve 10min frequency between peak, surely they could get to 15 min post peak (at least for the 'inner tier' if they do successfully implement a two tier timetable).
  heisdeadjim Chief Commissioner

I think that's "part of the plan" once all the trains are on line. So it may not happen this timetable change, but might in a future revision, when all units are functioning.
  Gwiwer Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid

Location: Loitering in darkest Somewhere
A basic 20-minute evening headway is a worthy aim but it takes more than just additional trains to achieve it.  More drivers will be required for which there is a lead time of around 14 months from recruitment to having them fully qualified.

Until that can be achieved Metro could work on their maintenance schedules to see if it were possible to run 6-car trains until last service on the present timetables where they do not already do so.

As a quick fix it might be possible to find resources to insert a couple of short trips at key times.  An mid-evening extra out to Cheltenham or Blackburn for example which can then return empty cars and possibly work a second trip.
  calt Chief Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
Ultimately, future timetables should cement the directions in which each group of trains run through the loop.

Northern- Anticlockwise (currently only achieved in AM peak)
Benefit:
Provides access to Flinders St from the City Loop in the PM peak
Southern Cross customers on the Northern Group no longer guess which trains they are taking

Clifton Hill - clockwise (already implemented)
Provides access to Southern Cross and Loop, direct to Jolimont from Parliament

Burnley Group - Anticlockwise
Gives direct access from Richmond to the City Loop at all times, particularly in afternoon peak
Fly over caters for potential route conflict, needs to be investigated

Caulfield Group excl. Sandringham - Clockwise
This group should be run clockwise, Flinders St first stop, City Loop, then Richmond and out to the suburbs again.

I believe the current timetable jigs already start to look like my proposals.
Customers have reacted to change of removal of Frankston express trains cordially, but with some hesitations.

Someone has to make the bold move to make this work. I urge someone higher up to look at this if they get the chance. Don’t be scared to falter.
  SteamtoStay Chief Commissioner

Location: Building floorplates
calt, I disagree with you in regards to both the Northern and Clifton Hill Loops.

Clifton Hill runs clockwise today for a damn good reason; it avoids conflicts between trains at Jolimont Junction.

Similarly, running the Northern Loop clockwise will avoid more than half the total conflicts between citybound suburban trains, and V/line trains in both directions that need to access Southern Cross's platform 1-8 inclusive.
  calt Chief Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
There is conflict no matter where you go in the Melbourne network. Look at Altona/Laverton junctions.

I do mean clockwise for the Clifton Hill group. Will edit the post.

The issue should then be looked at flat crossing issue, with more flyovers required. Is there space to do so? Probably not. Is there money to do so? Probably not.

So the idea would still have to be canned.
  Kerpal Deputy Commissioner

I thought the new timetable was meant to be launched this month.  Has it been pushed back for some reason?
  calt Chief Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
I’m humbled (and I’m sure others are as well) that the timetable folks are hard at work doing what they have to do Smile

They’re our unsung heros when it comes to organising trains daily. Organising up and down trains to remove conflict would not be easy.

Kudos + 10

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