Suspect so Kip, but the need for such a move virtually eliminated when the loop at Monarto was extended anyway.

do hi rails from GWA still visit the apamurra line and if they do, how often?

do hi rails from GWA still visit the apamurra line and if they do, how often?

Heath,

Read what I have posted - the line is quite overgrown and it appears that nothing has used the line for a couple of years - and you will get your answer.

is the line going to be handed back to the state government soon if it has not been used for years?

Ever consider taking up fishing as a hobby Heath?
Answer to this only if the lease holder (GWA) decides to, and before they do they have the option to remove all improvements from the lease, so all buildings, rail, sleepers and any other reusable or scrapable material. Only the rail coridor belongs to the state.

Ever consider taking up fishing as a hobby Heath?
Answer to this only if the lease holder (GWA) decides to, and before they do they have the option to remove all improvements from the lease, so all buildings, rail, sleepers and any other reusable or scrapable material. Only the rail coridor belongs to the state.

Pity the fish! but can you imagine Heath's first line of questions:
Heath:- Where do I go fishing?
Answer:- In the ocean.
Heath:- But don't fish come from the fish shop?

Wayne

You would have to wonder what the State would do with the line if it were handed back to them.
This does beg some interesting questions though.
Why was Appurmurra and Pinnaroo and Loxton or whats left of it guage converted when the main line was
but Mt Gambier wasnt?
In Victoria, all the lines which were isolated when the main line was guage converted, were also guage converted.

Easy MD, major grain storages, something that isn't present south of Wolseley, and most of the loading that had come from the south east had already migrated to truck long before the line closed, ever wonder why Scott holdings got so big?

You would have to wonder what the State would do with the line if it were handed back to them.
This does beg some interesting questions though.
Why was Appurmurra and Pinnaroo and Loxton or whats left of it guage converted when the main line was
but Mt Gambier wasnt?
In Victoria, all the lines which were isolated when the main line was guage converted, were also guage converted.

It was based on advice given to the Commonwealth by Transport SA (or whatever it was back then.)

At the time I knew the guy who provided that advice

It was based on advice given to the Commonwealth by Transport SA (or whatever it was back then.)

At the time I knew the guy who provided that advice

Is there any kind of report thats publickly available that provides the advice.
Id be interested in what constitutes a major grain storage.
I thought there were major grain storages at Frances and Kalangadoo.
Since the Appumurra line has closed, its major grain storage cant be major any more.

It is a matter of economics MD, Appamurra is smaller storage than Roseworthy, Roseworthy which the site owner (formerly Viterra) deemed wasn't economical to rail from, and Roseworthy when still in use the hoppers could be loaded to capacity, Appamurra was restricted to 18 Tonne axle load.
Both Frances and Kalangadoo much smaller than either of the mentioned storages.
The biggest issue for all the branch line grain trains is limited capacity due to axle load issues and VERY slow running times, it takes over 24 hours for a round trip from Outer Harbour terminal to Tookyerta (Loxton) and back, and loading at Tookyerta is quick, normally about 2 hours to do 40 hoppers, but the maximum track speed on the Loxton and Pinnaroo track's is 50 Kmh, Appamurra was 20 Kmh (so took near as long as going to Loxton).
Unfortunately the trucks can do it far quicker and cheaper and is why they are used.

You would have to wonder what the State would do with the line if it were handed back to them.
This does beg some interesting questions though.
Why was Appurmurra and Pinnaroo and Loxton or whats left of it guage converted when the main line was
but Mt Gambier wasnt?
In Victoria, all the lines which were isolated when the main line was guage converted, were also guage converted.

Well, if the City Of Monarto ever gets built, the Appamurra line will become one of the Metro Lines!

MD

An answer about Mt Gambier gauge conversion to your question is almost buried in history.

In the 1940/50s SA got "Standardisation" money from the Cwealth under the Wentworth Plan and used it to convert the MG lines to BG from narrow gauge. The undertaking was that when the SG came to SA the SA government would fund the conversion of he MG line.

By  the time the SG came along SA no longer owned the asset and were not willing to put money into something they did not own so the money was not forthcoming. AN actually owned and operated the line and they were not interested in LTTLs (less than train loads). AN came from CR who had never had to tout for freight as had the SAR and because there was no bulk freight from MG area they lost interest. A lot of stock was moved on the MG lines and AN couldn't manage this either. It was easier for AN to use standardisation as an excuse to close the line than get off their buttocks and become real railway people.

MG had at least two major freight forwarders who used rail plus industry based freight.

Lest we forget that it was Don Dunstan's Labor Party that sold the SAR.
SA rail wanted a fair go, all that government could give it was Vergo.

Ian

MD

An answer about Mt Gambier gauge conversion to your question is almost buried in history.

In the 1940/50s SA got "Standardisation" money from the Cwealth under the Wentworth Plan and used it to convert the MG lines to BG from narrow gauge. The undertaking was that when the SG came to SA the SA government would fund the conversion of he MG line.

By  the time the SG came along SA no longer owned the asset and were not willing to put money into something they did not own so the money was not forthcoming. AN actually owned and operated the line and they were not interested in LTTLs (less than train loads). AN came from CR who had never had to tout for freight as had the SAR and because there was no bulk freight from MG area they lost interest. A lot of stock was moved on the MG lines and AN couldn't manage this either. It was easier for AN to use standardisation as an excuse to close the line than get off their buttocks and become real railway people.

MG had at least two major freight forwarders who used rail plus industry based freight.

Lest we forget that it was Don Dunstan's Labor Party that sold the SAR.
SA rail wanted a fair go, all that government could give it was Vergo.

Ian

Who actually paid for the guage conversion of Apurmurra, Pinaroo and Loxton.
Was it the SA Govt or the Feds?

Nobody paid for the Monarto South to Appamurra gauge conversion, it was done for free by the local track gang. The tracks had become loosened by many years of minimal maintainance and were easily picked up by hand and moved across six and a half inches.

All this was achieved on the normal weekly wage budget. (presumably the monthly grain train was not running at the instant the rails were converted)

Nobody paid for the Monarto South to Appamurra gauge conversion, it was done for free by the local track gang. The tracks had become loosened by many years of minimal maintainance and were easily picked up by hand and moved across six and a half inches.

All this was achieved on the normal weekly wage budget. (presumably the monthly grain train was not running at the instant the rails were converted)

Hahahahaha Rodo I think you will find that there was more than this though.

really. cheap, slack maintenance!!!

really. cheap, slack maintenance!!!

Heath I think Rodo was poking a bit of fun at you. Basically what he said was true sort of. The rails were probably loose enough to pull out the spikes etc easily and simply move it across 6 1/2 inches but it would not have been done with trains running. It was all converted in one go and was never meant to last a long time either probably just the life of the existing sleepers, there were no concrete sleepers on this line unless a few level crossings were done etc. Heavy mainline diesels were still not able to get on this line, some would be used though just sneaking into the load limits on this line, but the speed was so slow though as to be almost walking pace. As has been said by the time the train has tip toed into there and loaded and tip toed back to the mainline the trucks would have done most of the job quicker.

It was only considered as a secondary line at any time, and if closed the day after it was gauge converted then it had paid for itself sort of. Done with minimal work to cheapen the cost up a lot.

well are GWA prepared to reopen the line if need be? for a record grain harvest

well are GWA prepared to reopen the line if need be? for a record grain harvest

I doubt it very much the track speed was just walking pace almost even after SG conversion, so to reopen now might need extensive upgrading if not a total rebuild from the ground up. Also if it was rebuilt it would never pay for itself, the grain trains would never make enough to pay for the upgrade. So really the answer is no to reopening just for grain. Now if a valuable mineral ore was found close to the line then it might stand a chance at a upgrade, but this is probably not going to happen though.

well are GWA prepared to reopen the line if need be? for a record grain harvest

The question is more likely to be ... "Are the grain companies willing to use rail over road transport?"
They will use the cheapest transport available.

I have a few questions!

what was the line speed limit when trains were running with non heavy mainline locomotives but branch line locomotives?
how often did trains run on the line during grain season?
when was the last train movement to run on that line including right of way movements?
was appamurra the only silos serviced on that line?
how many hoppers were usually run on each train compared to the Pinnaroo and Loxton lines?

I have a few questions!

what was the line speed limit when trains were running with non heavy mainline locomotives but branch line locomotives?
how often did trains run on the line during grain season?
when was the last train movement to run on that line including right of way movements?
was appamurra the only silos serviced on that line?
how many hoppers were usually run on each train compared to the Pinnaroo and Loxton lines?

hey heath do try and actualy read THE WHOLE thread as all your questions are already answered within it

funny no sulzers for a while now