Monarto South To Appamurra

 
  Steamage Station Staff

The roumor mill is running rife thisn track is to be removed making sure another 80 plus truck movements  a day stay on the roads thru the hills ..
where are the balhannah siding opponents and local cant remember Jamie Briggs ???on the roads they use we hope.

What happened to the group that was going to work with the zoo with a railcar between pallamanna and monarto South?? the rest of the allignment is required for long time in future rail bypass

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  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
The bypass is on hold for the time being and this railway line might not even be part of it in the future, the actual track has not been used in a long time so there should not be any noticeable extra trucks on the roads.

G&W have the right to remove all track components for reuse or scrap as they see fit. I think it is part of the conditions of returning the property to the State Government in most instances, that it be left clear of any rail tracks or sleepers etc.

It had to go one day as if it is not used then it simply becomes a liability to whoever owns the above ground rail infrastructure, they are not a working museum, but a company trying to make a profit! Who can blame though it is unlikely that anyone will miss this rail line!
  2001 Moderator The Snow Lord

Location: The road jump at Charlotte Pass. Paxman Valenta on two planks.
The rails could serve only one facility- the silos at Apamurra.

Cannot imagine anyone, anywhere, stepping forward with the $$$ needed to restore a track, from what I hear (and as it also appears to my eyes) is in woeful condition,  for the passage of a few grain trains to one silo complex.

It's economics. Nostalgia bears no weight.
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
If I'm not mistaken, the branch hasn't seen a train for at least a couple of harvests, so those "80 plus grain trucks" have been on the road for a while now!

Of interest rail was recovered from the closed section Apamurra - Cambrai by the PPR for it's extension into Port Augusta a few years ago
  nm39 Chief Commissioner

Location: By a road taking pictures
Does anyone know what the rail size is on the remaining line. If it is 60lb/yd it is ideal for PRR use. Also at 60lb/yd it is a little small for the 22t axle loading of todays trains.
  Steamage Station Staff

first point unlike the AN track removal debarkle one of the main conditions of the sale of AN was that the State Gov was to be gioven first option for the track to remain in the event G&W no longer wanted any coridors       FACT!!

Removal of the line will ensure no one finds a way to get the grain off the road via an ontrapenurial short line operator

I dont come on here often because I have never come across such a large number of negative know all {but know very little} it will never happen bunch of individuals!!

it is no wonder SA is so far behind the rest of Austrailia and the world;;; use all that negative energy convert it to positive constructive energy ....   it is cotageous
and stop using public risk as a reason for nothing to happen you are feeding the animal that will cosume you.  people have a resposibillity for their own actions and must be made accountable.
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
Look mate the track is smegged, it ain't no good so what is the damn point in arguing. No one is even going to miss the damn thing anyway. They have not missed it for a good few years, so total removal ain't going to worry anyone soon! It has not been used in years. G&W are not a historical society but a company and a large one at that, now they have got complete control of the Darwin line I can see them divesting themselves of more smegged up BG lines like this in SA as they are doing smeg all at the present time.  

As for you comments about South Australians we are a bunch of realist's here who can see that it is no good for any thing at the moment or even in the future it could and most probably would be by-passed completely in favour of a more or better alignment. The bridges etc on this line are not up to current mainline standards and I doubt any of them would be usable on a new heavy rail by-pass. Parts of the alignment might get used but I doubt very much whether the whole line would be.


As has been said it only served the silo at Appamurra there is no other traffic on this line at all, and now that has been gone for at least 2 years or more who is really going to miss it, the answer no one really so what is the beef. It is all simple facts. See it for yourself before mouthing off about something, I have not seen it personally but I have at least been shown photos taken of it by gunzels and railway personnel . It goes no where it might just as well end in Farmer Jones Paddock, it is pretty close to that now!

It is the remnant of a railway line that went to Sedan originally and has been cut back over the years to there because there is no traffic  offering on it then or now!
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
it is no wonder SA is so far behind the rest of Austrailia and the world...
"Steamage"

You are incorrect.
  fabricator Chief Commissioner

Location: Gawler
It has not been used in years. G&W are not a historical society but a company and a large one at that,
"David Peters"


I dispute that, GWA's loco collection looks like it belongs in a museum. There is some real old junk left lying around as well.

The line to Apamurra is another thing that should be rebuilt if it gets trucks off the road, but I doubt it would happen as it really is something the government should pay for, like they pay for roads.
  JTCs2 Deputy Commissioner

fabricator
I dispute that, GWA's loco collection looks like it belongs in a museum. There is some real old junk left lying around as well.


It does the job dosent it? how are CLPs ALFs and FQs classed as museum pieces?
The GMs and 830s etc are getting on a bit, but as long as they do the job whats wrong with that?

The line to Apamurra is another thing that should be rebuilt if it gets trucks off the road, but I doubt it would happen as it really is something the government should pay for, like they pay for roads
.

Why should the government pay for it? they sold it so it is the responsibility of the new owner.
If you sold a car, would you then expect to pay for its future services?
Sour grapes
JT
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
This branch line is a classic example of the falicy of the older railways economics
Take off your gunzel hats, leave your trucking industry and railway likes or hates at the door.

It comes down to cold hard cash
Do you spend up big to provide a railway line that will see little use?
Do you instead put that money into road improvements in the area that will see use every day of the year?

Take off those rose coloured gunzel sunnies and look at the reality!
  jm1941 Chief Commissioner

Location: Mount Gambier
first point unlike the AN track removal debacle one of the main conditions of the sale of AN was that the State Gov was to be given first option for the track to remain in the event G&W no longer wanted any corridors       FACT!!

Removal of the line will ensure no one finds a way to get the grain off the road via an entrepreneurial short line operator

I don't come on here often because I have never come across such a large number of negative know all {but know very little} it will never happen bunch of individuals!!

it is no wonder SA is so far behind the rest of Australia and the world;;; use all that negative energy convert it to positive constructive energy ....   it is contageous and stop using public risk as a reason for nothing to happen you are feeding the animal that will consume you.  people have a responsibility for their own actions and must be made accountable.
"Steamage"

Steamage I like your style, some of us here think it, you said it as it is.  Smile   Yes too much negativeness all the time, think that way and it WILL happen and is happening. AN (govt) made agreements to flog itself off, almost immediately those agreements were all tossed in the bin or got around and it was then an open go for the ???? profiteers to rip the guts out of it, destroy competion or likely compitition and we can easily guess by whom.  You point, I'll whistle leave it at that.  I could go on but no point in this furious money orientated system we have to live with now. Responsiblity became the dirty word. Old saying; as one sows, one reaps, is a basic law.

Regards,
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
This branch line is a classic example of the falicy of the older railways economics
Take off your gunzel hats, leave your trucking industry and railway likes or hates at the door.

It comes down to cold hard cash
Do you spend up big to provide a railway line that will see little use?
Do you instead put that money into road improvements in the area that will see use every day of the year?

Take off those rose coloured gunzel sunnies and look at the reality!
"Pressman"

Tend to disagree.

It would not have required spending big to secure its (to Apamurra) future. Unfortunately those in whose future its rests - the grain handlers, the rail operator, the government and the farmers all lack the smarts to tackle the problem.

As for the cost of improving the roads.........the cost of upgrading the local roads is considerably greater to accommodate heavy vehicles than it would be if it was only upgraded for cars. Yet the cost of upgrading the road is amortised cross all road users including the average motorist - can't beat good old fashioned socialism.

If the total additional cost of upgrading the roads to accommodate the heavy vehicles associated with the Apamurra line closure had been allocated to the grain industry then we may have perhaps seen a different scenario.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
fabricator
I dispute that, GWA's loco collection looks like it belongs in a museum. There is some real old junk left lying around as well.


It does the job dosent it? how are CLPs ALFs and FQs classed as museum pieces?
The GMs and 830s etc are getting on a bit, but as long as they do the job whats wrong with that?
"JTCs2"


CLPs and ALFs are just modified CLs and ALs hence they and the GMs and 830s would ALL qualify for entry into the Bay to Birdwood if they were motor vehicles. That in my book (and I gather Fabricator's too) qualifies them as bona fide museum pieces...
  ANDL36Y Train Controller

G’day all,

I'm not sure if it has been said yet but the problem was and is that AN (Federal Government owned) let all the branch lines run down by doing little or no maintenance, thereby not maintaining a public-owned facility. So that when the lines and operations were privatised the companies that acquired these assets obtained them in a very poor state of repair.

Because of the neglect primarily by AN (and the legacy of the SAR), GWA in particular would have their work cut out (at great expense) just to run the lines before they'd even turned a wheel let alone generated any income. So while I agree the line to Apamurra is a white elephant it, like the mid north broad gauge lines, didn't have to be. Case in point is the remedial (reconstruction) work currently taking place in the metro area, all because of the legacy of bad management and poor or little maintenance.

The problem as I see it in South Australia (I work in civil design with trains, planes and automobiles) is the lack of planning (foresight?) that goes into anything here. Throw in the NIMBY attitudes, poor cash flow, automatic pollies and the need for federal funding to get any major projects underway kind of puts us in a hole. Obviously the situation is more complex than that (see one Alan Scott, Mt Gambier) and that is why little old SA ties itself in knots. We don’t have the cash to play with so we need to be more careful what we do with it.

A country passenger service to a town of 1,500 when the rail right-of-way, roadside furniture, station and railcar/loco facilities requires a complete rebuild, is just not an option. Now that our country lines are privatised, it never will be because the numbers do not justify it. Our only hope is when the lines revert to state government ownership that the pollies would see sense in say running railcars to Roseworthy, or Mt Barker and so on. The benefits of which are very hard for bean counters to quantify. But that is the point. Build the public service and the public will use it. Metro rail revitalisation anyone? How many people smeg-canned the tram extension through the city at the time? And I use King William St as a thoroughfare all the time (I work in town) without issue. But that was a no-brainer and an easy option. No real opposition there, just public opinion.

I understand the historical reasoning for the existence of some of these lines in the first place (inland connection to sea or river ports, agitation by locals for a railway at the time and hence for political gain) and that a fair majority of the SAR country system should simply have not existed (Cambrai, Truro and Willunga lines to name a few. Although wouldn't it be nice if McLaren Vale was a terminus and the Willunga line still existed to Hallett Cove. I would imagine that hypothetical line would be well patronised.

Cheers,
Joshua
  jm1941 Chief Commissioner

Location: Mount Gambier
G’day all,

I'm not sure if it has been said yet but the problem was and is that AN (Federal Government owned) let all the branch lines run down by doing little or no maintenance, thereby not maintaining a public-owned facility. So that when the lines and operations were privatised the companies that acquired these assets obtained them in a very poor state of repair.

Because of the neglect primarily by AN (and the legacy of the SAR), GWA in particular would have their work cut out (at great expense) just to run the lines before they'd even turned a wheel let alone generated any income. So while I agree the line to Apamurra is a white elephant it, like the mid north broad gauge lines, didn't have to be. Case in point is the remedial (reconstruction) work currently taking place in the metro area, all because of the legacy of bad management and poor or little maintenance.

The problem as I see it in South Australia (I work in civil design with trains, planes and automobiles) is the lack of planning (foresight?) that goes into anything here. Throw in the NIMBY attitudes, poor cash flow, automatic pollies and the need for federal funding to get any major projects underway kind of puts us in a hole. Obviously the situation is more complex than that (see one Alan Scott, Mt Gambier) and that is why little old SA ties itself in knots. We don’t have the cash to play with so we need to be more careful what we do with it.

A country passenger service to a town of 1,500 when the rail right-of-way, roadside furniture, station and railcar/loco facilities requires a complete rebuild, is just not an option. Now that our country lines are privatised, it never will be because the numbers do not justify it. Our only hope is when the lines revert to state government ownership that the pollies would see sense in say running railcars to Roseworthy, or Mt Barker and so on. The benefits of which are very hard for bean counters to quantify. But that is the point. Build the public service and the public will use it. Metro rail revitalisation anyone? How many people smeg-canned the tram extension through the city at the time? And I use King William St as a thoroughfare all the time (I work in town) without issue. But that was a no-brainer and an easy option. No real opposition there, just public opinion.

I understand the historical reasoning for the existence of some of these lines in the first place (inland connection to sea or river ports, agitation by locals for a railway at the time and hence for political gain) and that a fair majority of the SAR country system should simply have not existed (Cambrai, Truro and Willunga lines to name a few. Although wouldn't it be nice if McLaren Vale was a terminus and the Willunga line still existed to Hallett Cove. I would imagine that hypothetical line would be well patronised.

Cheers,
Joshua
"ANDL36Y"

Well penned Joshua, well penned.  
  stuart Locomotive Fireman

Location: Adelaide SA
Hi all.
I am open to correction here.
From memory, one of the conditions of the sale of the AN freight, and network to G&W in November 1997 was that if a corridor or line was not utilised for a certain time period, (5 years?) that either the management or ownership of the corridor would revert to the state government.
Back in the early 2000's a light engine was run to both Burra and Kapunda
by G&W exercising their ownership rights of the corridors as the 5 year timeframe was ticking.
I am pretty sure it is at least 5 years, possibly 6 since a train has visited Appamurra.
It may be a case that G&W now no longer control or own the corridor. (Again i am open to correction here).
The same possibly applies to the Balaclava and Farrel Flat lines beyond Roseworthy as it would be a good 5 years since a train has plied those rails.
The last time i photographed at train on the Appamurra line was in August 2001 with 42219.
The heritage listed bridge at Ready Creek and the bridge at Salt Creek were subject to severe speed restrictions and the track s ballast was more or less Murray Mallee sand.
Smile
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
This branch line is a classic example of the falicy of the older railways economics
Take off your gunzel hats, leave your trucking industry and railway likes or hates at the door.

It comes down to cold hard cash
Do you spend up big to provide a railway line that will see little use?
Do you instead put that money into road improvements in the area that will see use every day of the year?

Take off those rose coloured gunzel sunnies and look at the reality!
"Pressman"


I would tend to agree with Pressman here on this, if the line was useful for something other than just seasonal grain then it might have a future but as it is now it is just simply two rusty streaks of metal. Also ANDL36Y  has summed it up nicely in his post as well.

Most of the branch lines like this should have been closed way back in the 1960's or even earlier, as most were just a hang over from times when the railways was the only efficient way for of transport for these areas. I am talking about horse and dray times here!

We have in the North of Adelaide railway's built parallel to existing lines less than 20 Km apart in most places, these lines were mostly built back then to win votes etc in elections, some in hindsight should never have even been looked at, let alone actually built! Yet when one gets removed today there is a gunzel out cry, the public don't give a damn in general.

I always try to look at things like this not as a gunzel, but as Joe Public see's it, it changes the whole outlook of it, but when you post like this you get called a negative thinker or something. It is not negative, just good old common sense, but not many today use this anymore!

The Government of South Australia is not a bottomless pit of money, without Federal input into a lot of current projects they would all be scrapped as too costly.
  Alco251_244 Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere
The last train to Apamurra was in 2005. The bridges at Reedy Creek and Salt Creek both require major work from what I have heard.
  ANDL36Y Train Controller

The last train to Apamurra was in 2005. The bridges at Reedy Creek and Salt Creek both require major work from what I have heard.
"Alco251_244"


...and that is the point I was making. It is probably still viable to haul bulk grain via rail to the mainline from a single location - such as Apamurra as it is a large grain terminal - otherwise they would not have been doing it up until the closure.

However, compare revenue against the cost of repair or replacement of the (heritage listed?) bridges and associated right-of-way upgrades, repairs, and it makes no economical sense to continue.

Whilst the decision to cease operations was a logical, financial one, the choices (neglect, lack of funding) made by others leading up to the closure were poor, to say the least. Sell (use of) the country lines to the private operators and the monkey is off the State Governments back. When the (use of the) lines reverts to State ownership Conlon et al can point to the private operators who 'neglected' the facilities, requiring demolition. Bingo.

Cheers,
Joshua
  Rodo Chief Commissioner

Location: Southern Riverina
I would have thought that large concentration of grain in the midst of a grain growing area would have justified keeping that short branch open but I am no expert of transport economics.
  benscaro Chief Commissioner

This branch line is a classic example of the falicy of the older railways economics
Take off your gunzel hats, leave your trucking industry and railway likes or hates at the door.

It comes down to cold hard cash
Do you spend up big to provide a railway line that will see little use?
Do you instead put that money into road improvements in the area that will see use every day of the year?

Take off those rose coloured gunzel sunnies and look at the reality!
"Pressman"

Tend to disagree.

It would not have required spending big to secure its (to Apamurra) future. Unfortunately those in whose future its rests - the grain handlers, the rail operator, the government and the farmers all lack the smarts to tackle the problem.

As for the cost of improving the roads.........the cost of upgrading the local roads is considerably greater to accommodate heavy vehicles than it would be if it was only upgraded for cars. Yet the cost of upgrading the road is amortised cross all road users including the average motorist - can't beat good old fashioned socialism.

If the total additional cost of upgrading the roads to accommodate the heavy vehicles associated with the Apamurra line closure had been allocated to the grain industry then we may have perhaps seen a different scenario.
"bingley hall"


in this case i do tend to think there would have been merit in keeping it open, if only because public money ( i assume) was spent back in 1996 standardising it.  

this rather marginal line was done prior to the mallee lines because there wasn't the capacity for siloing of grain from the branch at monarto south, and little point maintaining a pair of 830s, 22 hoppers and a few spares on a separate b.g. island for trains a few months a year. it was either standardise or close.  

so it is a bit of a waste.

one cannot argue that railways are no good for carrying grain in all instances ... if you follow that line of reasoning, there is bougerie all else left for rail to do in regional SA.

ben
  2001 Moderator The Snow Lord

Location: The road jump at Charlotte Pass. Paxman Valenta on two planks.
However, compare revenue against the cost of repair or replacement of the (heritage listed?) bridges and associated right-of-way upgrades, repairs, and it makes no economical sense to continue.

"ANDL36Y"


At least one of the bridges is protected by a Heritage Listing.
  ANDL36Y Train Controller

So then, we are probably talking about a new structure alongside the original on an altered alignment or a very considered restoration of the original structure which would still require the line to be closed while the work is done.

Not looking very viable at this point. However, we are heading for a record grain haul. I'd love to know the numbers required to break even or make a profit after one or two new structures, earthworks and an upgrade of the rail formation. If the State Gummint were to foot the bill (which they won't) then I'm sure we'd see GWA running to the Apamurra terminal once again.

Cheers,
Joshua

PS I might hit up some of our structural and rail Ginger Beers for potential costings to upgrade the line. Could be amusing.
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
PS I might hit up some of our structural and rail Ginger Beers for potential costings to upgrade the line. Could be amusing.
"ANDL36Y"

Are we talking gold plated standards or fit for purpose? What axle loads would you be suggesting to them and what tracks speeds? Can make a big difference in cost.

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