SWRL Construction Progress

 
  normw Junior Train Controller

Does anyone have access to an STN for the 'test train' (?) and can they post it here, preferably before the runs but after would likely be acceptable as an historic record?

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  maestro Junior Train Controller

As far as I know automatic track circuits aren't normally configured for reverse running except when bi-directional running is installed. At one time IIRC if a train tripped a start signal at the end of a platform when stopping, the GA prohibited setting back into the platform.That was in relay days so things might be more amenable. On the other hsnd if a train is travelling against the normal direction of traffic it clearly is 'out of control' and all bets are off regardless!

Taking into consideration the 'range' to be covered by the test train, I know there is a crossover at Ingleburn, and probably at Liverpool, but not sure if there's one at Holworthy. Of equal interest if there is one between the SFO and Edmondon Park station. Hmmm I am sure there is a crossover at the EH Army Camp junction but can't recall if it is OH-wired. (The crossover; the Army Camp line isn't.) There is a wired crossover at lease at East Hills.
normw

I would guess that they would want to test as close to final usage as possible. They've replaced the signalling in the GTI area, so they would probably take the train outside of that area and re-enter from each approach track so that the signalling equipment will pick the train up in exactly the same way as it will in final use.

I suspect that the test train won't be electric (from the construction updates, it doesn't appear as if they will have the line out to EP powered up yet, but I could be wrong)

Um ur let me guess, this line will open for passengers sometime near March 2015?
While there may be SOME residents in that area, is it a marginal seat?
By the way, doesn't this line go through and to "almost the middle of nowhere"?
Newcastle Express

That's what we have been speculating in this thread previously, just in time for the state election.
I don't think that the particular electorate has a great deal to do with it, they will talk it up as general infrastructure building and an example of what is to come in other places (they'll probably "announce" the second harbour crossing at the same time!).
Yes, the line basically goes through outer-urban farmland, with a new estate between Glenfield and EP stations. It reminds me of the movie "The Dish" (What's it doing in the middle of a sheep paddock?), although they aren't sheep farms in that area. It is good to see the foresight in building this sort of infrastructure ahead of time, though.
  normw Junior Train Controller

I would guess that they would want to test as close to final usage as possible. They've replaced the signalling in the GTI area, so they would probably take the train outside of that area and re-enter from each approach track so that the signalling equipment will pick the train up in exactly the same way as it will in final use.

I suspect that the test train won't be electric (from the construction updates, it doesn't appear as if they will have the line out to EP powered up yet, but I could be wrong)


That's what we have been speculating in this thread previously, just in time for the state election.
I don't think that the particular electorate has a great deal to do with it, they will talk it up as general infrastructure building and an example of what is to come in other places (they'll probably "announce" the second harbour crossing at the same time!).
Yes, the line basically goes through outer-urban farmland, with a new estate between Glenfield and EP stations. It reminds me of the movie "The Dish" (What's it doing in the middle of a sheep paddock?), although they aren't sheep farms in that area. It is good to see the foresight in building this sort of infrastructure ahead of time, though.
maestro

The 'range' nominated for the test train is outside the Glenfield interlocking, as indicated by the station names given, vis: Holsworthy, Casula, Ingleburn (and MAYBE EP?). A train trip this morning revealed active crossovers at Ingleburn, East Hills and Liverpool; as changing ends with a loco hauled train may be a challenge, it suggests either an EMU, a test vehicle like TPMV1/2 or a push-pull setup with something like 2 x 48 class with some wagons in the middle.

When I last looked, the 1500v feeders for the Down/Up ramps of the SFO were incomplete, though it wouldn't take long to finish them off. They appear to be intending to get power from the DN and UP Main respectively, but it is difficult to tell how far they feed towards EP. The feeders CAN be switched off from the DN/UP Mains and the SFO run entirely from EP Sub?? The 'big' weekend will tell.

Politicians survive by the number of 'positive' photo opportunities they get. Openning a large public infrastructure project when it's also under-budget and ahead of schedule broadens the grin. Voters typically have a short attention span, judging from the grumbling on polling day. Hence the need to move positive photo ops (cutting ribbons, kissing babies, etc) as close to polling day as possible.

Given the mobility afforded by PRIVATE transport, along with high petrol prices, the huge carparks at Leppington Station will pull patronage from a lot further than the local farmlands, especially as Camden Valley Way nears completion.
  maestro Junior Train Controller

The 'range' nominated for the test train is outside the Glenfield interlocking, as indicated by the station names given, vis: Holsworthy, Casula, Ingleburn (and MAYBE EP?). A train trip this morning revealed active crossovers at Ingleburn, East Hills and Liverpool; as changing ends with a loco hauled train may be a challenge, it suggests either an EMU, a test vehicle like TPMV1/2 or a push-pull setup with something like 2 x 48 class with some wagons in the middle.
normw

A light engine would be adequate for testing interlocking.
  normw Junior Train Controller

A light engine would be adequate for testing interlocking.
maestro

Signal testing is a mixed bag. The GA will indicate what loco's are deemed reliable enough to activate -track circuits- and hence a first pass would use a vehicle of the least approved weight (or near to it) to ensure that all track circuits appropriately respond to its passing; thus heavier vehicles should also work reliably. In addition to signals going to red when just a loco passes, it is also essential to ensure longish trains, which can span multiple track circuits and signals when passing through a compact interlocking, don't release signals or points towards the rear of train until the entire train has cleared the route. I suspect there will be two passes; something light like one of the new TPMV1/2 (I've seen it running on its own) which can also gather track profile data as it goes over the new bits, and, perhaps late in proceedings (like Monday) an EMU that will test both longish train use and the OHW at the same time. If only the TPMV does the EP/SFO section then energising the OHW for that part would be unnecessary.
  normw Junior Train Controller

Does anyone have access to an STN for the 'test train' (?) and can they post it here, preferably before the runs but after would likely be acceptable as an historic record?
normw

Probably an STN is 'optimistic'; any chance of approximate times (guesstimates) for the/a 'test train' at the following locations (daylight ONLY, if at all; no one likes night flash, especially engine crews):

- P1     (arrival from Ingleburn)  . . . . . . .
- NFO   (to Holsworthy). . . . . . . . . . . . .
- EHDM (arrival from Holsworthy). . . . . . .
- P4     (departure to Ingleburn) . . . . . . .
- SFO   (P3 or P4 towards EP). . . . . . . . .
- SFO   (EP to P1 or P2). . . . . . . . . . . . .

The SFO/P1/P4 are photoable from Glenfield station public concourse, the NFO/EHDM from the road overbridge.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
At one time IIRC if a train tripped a start signal at the end of a platform when stopping, the GA prohibited setting back into the platform.That was in relay days so things might be more amenable.
anon


The setting back prohibition has to do with overlaps, especially overlaps that lie halfway along a platform, such as some platforms at Central.

If a train overshoots, and clears an overlap that allows a following train to approach or even enter a platform, then there is a risk of a collision as the overshooting train sets back.

Drivers do not know where overlaps are, and are not really expected to know. Overlaps are not even shown on Driver's Diagrams.

A driver that did know where overlaps are could decide that setting back is OK here, but not there.

But, as said above, drivers do not know were overlaps are. It is not part of their route knowledge.

The safest thing, therefore, is to prohibit setting back in all circumstances.

This rule would apply with Computer Based Interlockings, as well as Relay types.

CBTC or Moving Block have even shorter overlaps, and the setback prohibition is even more important.
  normw Junior Train Controller

The setting back prohibition has to do with overlaps, especially overlaps that lie halfway along a platform, such as some platforms at Central.

[snip]

CBTC or Moving Block have even shorter overlaps, and the setback prohibition is even more important.
awsgc24

Thanks 'awsgc24' for the explaination and clarity. Was in Workshops for too many years but loco trials and a general interest in most technical things railway I learnt a bit from a lot of employees but explainations and why's weren't always forthcoming. There are also a couple of terms in your description that will prompt some further research - luckily these days there is the internet, but only after you have a few 'keys' for the search engine!
  normw Junior Train Controller

A quick trip to Holsworthy and back this afternoon revealed the BIG track tamping machine in the tail of the Down Relief road at Campbelltown, and the SPENO track grinding/polishing(?) train sitting, almost out of sight, on the Holsworthy military spur. No sidings, no storage. Nothing obvious happening at Glenfield save a crew painting train stopping numbers on the edge of P4. Two or three OHW masts where the NFO joins the existing EHUP will likely need relocating/redesign so I guess their ex-bases are those mentioned in the CU to be removed. Will be at Glenfield about noon tomorrow.
  normw Junior Train Controller

By 12.30pm, all signals going were gone (except for their bases), plus their associated ATS and T-C devices.  All 'new' signals were uncovered save for two on the P4 track that still carried a white 'X'. All stop blocks appear to be gone.The point DM->EHUP is not being totally removed AFAICT (ATM). Roughly 30' of track was removed, plus about 1/5 of of the point blades towards the point frog; two lengths of rail and sleepers filled in the gap, leaving the rails heading toward EH unconnected. The point frog remains in the Down Main, which seems 'odd' though workable. Perhaps the remainder of the point will be removed during what's left of the weekend or when the three crossovers are finally removed? No idea how the connection to the NFO is progressing; the area is not accessible to public pedestrians. No sign of the tamper, grinder or anything remotely like a 'test train' as yet.
  ivahri Train Controller

I saw the tamper passing slowly through Ingleburn just around midday heading towards Macquarie Fields. Plenty of circuit testing and signal removal going on around that time...


Richard

  ivahri Train Controller

  ivahri Train Controller

  normw Junior Train Controller

Thanks for posting the pix 'ivahri'! - pleased that I wasn't the only one poking around. It seems like MF wasn't 'closed' very tightly this weekend. Smile

I have a largish .jpg taken from the road bridge (2026x1027) of one of the 'old' signals being removed and progress on 'removing' the DM->EHUP point, if someone knows how to put it on a diet, and has a place to host it. Reply via PM if preferred.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
Thanks 'awsgc24' for the explaination and clarity. Was in Workshops for too many years but loco trials and a general interest in most technical things railway I learnt a bit from a lot of employees but explainations and why's weren't always forthcoming. There are also a couple of terms in your description that will prompt some further research - luckily these days there is the internet, but only after you have a few 'keys' for the search engine!
normw


If you could burden the train crew with an extra half-a-GA outlining when and when not to setback, and expect the crew to know it, well setbacking might be acceptable and safe to do. some of the time. If not, prohibit setbacks.

Here is an actual example of an improvised setbacking:

An 8-car single deck train hit a luggage trolley halfway along Platform 22 at Sydney Central, and derailed.

The rear cars of this train blocked the points to Platform 23, trapping all Illawarra trains.

While the driver proceed to uncouple the rear four cars, a volunteer flagman went back to stop the following train appearing out of the tunnel from Museum. Hand signal, then flag signal, then verbal advice to driver and guard.

The plan was to shunt the un-derailed 4 cars onto Platform 23, which required it to shunt outside the home signal and onto the overlap for the following train, if it got too close. The flagman stopped that train well clear of even the Accept signal.

After 10 or 15 minutes the rear 4 cars were successfully shunted onto Platform 23. All Illawarra and Illawarra Local trains went via platform 23 for the rest of the evening peak, albeit with some delay.

The Sydney Station Master (as he was then called) sent letters of congratulations to all concerned for expediting a solution to the derailment problem.
  ivahri Train Controller

The cut-over of the northern fly-over seemed to go very smoothly. By the time I boarded my train at 7.30 at Macquarie Fields trains were spot on time. The view from the top of the fly-over is pretty good and there didn't seem to be any confusion about the changes in platforms at Glenfield.

I think a well done to all involved over the weekend is deserved! A great piece of project management...

Cheers

Richard
  jcouch Assistant Commissioner

Location: Asleep on a commuter train
I noticed a few people doing double takes as we rolled into Glenfield this morning. Then as we left, a lot of rubbernecking from inside the carriage as we went up and over the flyover. Will be interesting to see how many people line up on the "wrong' side of the train as we pull into Glenfield tonight on the way home. Smile
  ivahri Train Controller

It did feel strange to roll into platform 1 at Glenfield. Pretty sure that most will line up for platform 3 to get off tonight...

Cheers

Richard
  normw Junior Train Controller

Some prior history: Monday about 1.30pm 8101 arrived at Glenfield via the EHDN and began signal testing, starting with the P4 road and trips out to around MF station at a guess. After a couple of trips between GD1 (EHDN) and MF (using the same track), it was switched to the lower end of the Leppington DN ramp. From there it did multiple passes to the P3 platform, testing (AFAICT) the point, catchpoint and related DN Main start signal, which is about when I left it due to declining day and declining weather.

The first 'business' train over the NFO was the 4.05am from Campbelltown today, an 8-car K Set with C3548 as lead power car. On approach to Glenfield we were routed to P1, and during our brief stop the guard announced our 'first' as about twelve people wearing PPE (orange vests/white hats) joined the train and three others similarly attired (but one equipped with a camera and tripod) boarded the drivers cab; I assume they were 'SydneyTrains' people. We left near enough to 4.20, and didn't need a flying start at the 'hill' to top it at about 4.23... the view was a non-event at that hour, but did notice a 'drop' on leaving the top of the 'block'. I and all the people previously noted alighted at Holsworthy and after a short wait we all boarded a Campbelltown train that used P4 as expected. We passed a south-bound train enroute to Holsworthy, so cannot claim that as a first use of P4 also.
  normw Junior Train Controller

The cut-over of the northern fly-over seemed to go very smoothly. By the time I boarded my train at 7.30 at Macquarie Fields trains were spot on time. The view from the top of the fly-over is pretty good and there didn't seem to be any confusion about the changes in platforms at Glenfield.

I think a well done to all involved over the weekend is deserved! A great piece of project management...

Cheers

Richard
ivahri

Totally agree, and a well-done to the staff also!
The 4.05 was on time even at that hour. With now four through platforms to its name, Glenfield looks a very 'business-like'  station, all lit up.
  normw Junior Train Controller

If you could burden the train crew with an extra half-a-GA outlining when and when not to setback, and expect the crew to know it, well setbacking might be acceptable and safe to do. some of the time. If not, prohibit setbacks.

Here is an actual example of an improvised setbacking:

An 8-car single deck train hit a luggage trolley halfway along Platform 22 at Sydney Central, and derailed.

The rear cars of this train blocked the points to Platform 23, trapping all Illawarra trains.

While the driver proceed to uncouple the rear four cars, a volunteer flagman went back to stop the following train appearing out of the tunnel from Museum. Hand signal, then flag signal, then verbal advice to driver and guard.

The plan was to shunt the un-derailed 4 cars onto Platform 23, which required it to shunt outside the home signal and onto the overlap for the following train, if it got too close. The flagman stopped that train well clear of even the Accept signal.

After 10 or 15 minutes the rear 4 cars were successfully shunted onto Platform 23. All Illawarra and Illawarra Local trains went via platform 23 for the rest of the evening peak, albeit with some delay.

The Sydney Station Master (as he was then called) sent letters of congratulations to all concerned for expediting a solution to the derailment problem.
awsgc24

Thanks 'awsgc24' for the slice of (your?) history...
Good managers used to thank staff in writting in the old days for effort above and beyond... I have no idea how often it happens these days.
  normw Junior Train Controller

A light engine would be adequate for testing interlocking.
maestro

A VERY good chance that's all it took, namely 8101. Given all the points and signals I suspect it was long passed nightfall before they finished! As for the OHW, they had a road-rail vehicle with a single arm pantograph on its roof that was good enough to keep crews busy tweaking the OHW on the NFO for most of Monday afternoon.
  maestro Junior Train Controller

A VERY good chance that's all it took, namely 8101. Given all the points and signals I suspect it was long passed nightfall before they finished! As for the OHW, they had a road-rail vehicle with a single arm pantograph on its roof that was good enough to keep crews busy tweaking the OHW on the NFO for most of Monday afternoon.
normw

Cool. It's nice to be right for once Razz.

Any pictures / video?
  normw Junior Train Controller

It seems all the GTI work set for June is now complete, the only 'known' work left being removal of the three crossovers, the remains of the defunct DM->EHUP point and related OHW. This work would need a shutdown weekend at least, and the next one is not scheduled until August; it will be of interest to see what, if anything, is listed in a July GTI CU. In previous years there were extended shutdowns of the Campbelltown-Liverpool corridor in January, and if this could be tolerated for one more year Smile perhaps all/some/most of the above could be left until then? The commissioning of the SWRL is anticipated for October and there's a shutdown weekend set for that month to most likely facilitate it.

A look last Sunday showed Rickard Road IS now open (although the Leppington station building/carparks remain fenced off), and there is still no OHW through the Freeway tunnel or tunnel approaches. (Most likely for safety reasons?)
  normw Junior Train Controller

Cool. It's nice to be right for once Razz.

Any pictures / video?
maestro

But probably neither the first time or last.

Regretably nothing to speak of: The only vantage point to see what was happening was the glass-enclosed station public concourse, and by 4pm it was that dark and the glass rain splattered that the built-in flash was going off and bouncing off the glass. I did get one side-on picture of the loco with Railway Street in the background from the road bridge (just as continuous rain started and required a hasty walk back to the station), but it shows nothing of anything you could call 'testing', and there are a lot more flattering pictures of an 81 class 'out there'. Given the 'testing' I saw occuppied over two hours and had presumably only addressed most/all(?) of P4 road and a small part of P3 track, it's likely it was still going on at midnight! I did take a few photos but all it shows is an 'end-on' shot of an 81 going passed the P4 starter.

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