Suburban Silver Trains Discussion (L & R, S Trainsets)

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Black1050 Chief Train Controller

Location: Sectors, 3, 1 & 2

sydnytrains,

with regard to R44's statement "...there's a couple S Sets at eveleigh that are always there..." - that is fairly accurate.
There are usually 2 x trains tabled to be stabled at Eveleigh on weekdays after the morning peak for the purpose of training and return back into service for the afternoon peak. Usually the training facilitators prefer to have 2 different sets, ie 1 x Silver Set (S,K or C set) and 1 x Tangara, so they can teach/demonstrate the specific differences unique to them. However due to operational requirements, sometimes the operations supervisors cannot always fulfill Railcorp Training's preferences/requests. Thus, they often end up with 2 x S Sets. (something is better than nothing)
Likewise, there is a daily (weekday) train tabled to be stabled at Lavender Bay Car Sidings for training. That one varies between an S or K set.
 
sydnytrains Chief Commissioner

Location: McDonalds Front counter serving customers


sydnytrains,

with regard to R44's statement "...there's a couple S Sets at eveleigh that are always there..." - that is fairly accurate.
There are usually 2 x trains tabled to be stabled at Eveleigh on weekdays after the morning peak for the purpose of training and return back into service for the afternoon peak. Usually the training facilitators prefer to have 2 different sets, ie 1 x Silver Set (S,K or C set) and 1 x Tangara, so they can teach/demonstrate the specific differences unique to them. However due to operational requirements, sometimes the operations supervisors cannot always fulfill Railcorp Training's preferences/requests. Thus, they often end up with 2 x S Sets. (something is better than nothing)
Likewise, there is a daily (weekday) train tabled to be stabled at Lavender Bay Car Sidings for training. That one varies between an S or K set.

- Black1050


I never said it wasn't accurate. But thanks anyway. Smile

What I said basically, was when I go there, I sometimes see different sets. I hope I didn't mean any offence to  R44. Smile
 
A78 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Banned

I have some information I want to know but I have photos which you will have to go to my Flickr page iDionzA78 to see the photos there's two

PHOTO 1 Title With Air. Is there air vents ontop of the train to keep it cool for inside it cause it looks like they are or are they used to cool the trains mechanics?

PHOTO 2. The air vents onto seem to be closed up or covered up because these are covered up would it make the Carriage warmer then others?

 
Watson374 Chief Commissioner

Location: Fully reclined at the pointy end.
Since they're mentioned here, and I don't want to start another thread on silvers, what do you guys mean by 'Rocket' R sets? I know Super Six is MTM-MTM, from above. And are there Rs with control cars only on the outer ends?
 
Black1050 Chief Train Controller

Location: Sectors, 3, 1 & 2
I'd say "Rocket R Sets" are indeed another name for Super Six consist R Sets.  There would be no other reason for calling an R Set a "Rocket".

There are no "Rs with control cars only on the outer ends".  There are no silver sets with control only or control/driving trailer cars.
 
Black1050 Chief Train Controller

Location: Sectors, 3, 1 & 2
A78 - Until we can actually SEE/VIEW your pictures on your Flickr page, we cannot answer your "vent" related questions.
 
A78 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Banned
Since they're mentioned here, and I don't want to start another thread on silvers, what do you guys mean by 'Rocket' R sets? I know Super Six is MTM-MTM, from above. And are there Rs with control cars only on the outer ends?
- Watson374
i dont get why they cant be L Sets cause there basically 2 Sets coupled together.
 
Watson374 Chief Commissioner

Location: Fully reclined at the pointy end.
I'd say "Rocket R Sets" are indeed another name for Super Six consist R Sets. There would be no other reason for calling an R Set a "Rocket". There are no "Rs with control cars only on the outer ends". There are no silver sets with control only or control/driving trailer cars.
- Black1050


Alright, thanks. There aren't any non-driving motors, right? Otherwise an optimal set would be DM-T-NDM+NDM-T-DM. Then again, CityRail's never had the UNDM (uncoupling non-driving motor, basically an NDM car that has a control panel for uncoupling and depot shunting only), a great London Underground invention.

Since they're mentioned here, and I don't want to start another thread on silvers, what do you guys mean by 'Rocket' R sets? I know Super Six is MTM-MTM, from above. And are there Rs with control cars only on the outer ends?
- Watson374
i dont get why they cant be L Sets cause there basically 2 Sets coupled together.
- A78


Because the material difference is not how they are marshalled into consists. The importance is the number of cars in the set - S means eight cars, R means six cars, L means three cars, irrespective of the actual makeup of the train.
 
Black1050 Chief Train Controller

Location: Sectors, 3, 1 & 2
Watson374 - "...basically an NDM car that has a control panel ..."

- CityRail/Railcorp have moved away from these.  Some of the earlier S-Sets were produced in this format (control/driver cars), however they have all had their control cabs decomissioned, and these are now just converted to trailer cars.
The mindset being that 8 car sets, made of 2 x 4 car blocks, with motor cars at each end of the 4 car block, makes things much easier and simpler, if sets need to be divided or amalgamated in  a siding or yard.  If an individual car in a 4 car set needs to be worked on, then that will need to be done in a maintenance centre anyway.
- Technically an S-Set is an 8 car or 4 Car consist. You're on the mark with the 6 and 3 car consists tho.
 
A78 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Banned
[quote="Black1050"]A78 - Until we can actually SEE/VIEW your pictures on your Flickr page, we cannot answer your "vent" related questions.[/quote] Okay i get it i will have to look into why none can see it will have to login to flickr tonight and see the problem
 
A78 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Banned
Watson374 - "...basically an NDM car that has a control panel ..."

- CityRail/Railcorp have moved away from these.  Some of the earlier S-Sets were produced in this format (control/driver cars), however they have all had their control cabs decomissioned, and these are now just converted to trailer cars.
The mindset being that 8 car sets, made of 2 x 4 car blocks, with motor cars at each end of the 4 car block, makes things much easier and simpler, if sets need to be divided or amalgamated in  a siding or yard.  If an individual car in a 4 car set needs to be worked on, then that will need to be done in a maintenance centre anyway.
- Technically an S-Set is an 8 car or 4 Car consist. You're on the mark with the 6 and 3 car consists tho.
- Black1050
Though L1 & L2 Were 3 Cars each But when they moved over to Sector 3 They got renamed as An R Set. The only way i see 6 Car MTM-MTM Sets being R Sets as they dont get uncoupled and moved around like the S Sets whereas they are moved around alot like S1&S2 Can be coupled together today and tomorrow it could be S1&S4 Together in consist

(hope i have explained it good) Embarassed
 
Black1050 Chief Train Controller

Location: Sectors, 3, 1 & 2
A78 - you're getting a better understanding  Smile .  Anytime six S-Set type cars are together they are an R-Set, no matter how many motor cars are in the consist.  If 2 x L-Sets are being moved somewhere for some reason, they are just considered 2  L-Sets amalgamated for ease transport because they will be divided again once at the destination.

R-Sets usually stay as is once formed, with the exception of maintenance purposes, where individual cars within the consist maybe are swapped out.
For the record if you see other suburban silver sets (K or C) in a six car consist, they are just a 6 car K or 6 car C, not an R Set.

- Will keep waiting to see your photos.
 
thadocta Chief Commissioner

Location: Katoomba
Because the material difference is not how they are marshalled into consists. The importance is the number of cars in the set - S means eight cars, R means six cars, L means three cars, irrespective of the actual makeup of the train.
- Watson374


Actually, S means four cars, eight car trains are two S sets coupled together.

Dave
 
Watson374 Chief Commissioner

Location: Fully reclined at the pointy end.
Because the material difference is not how they are marshalled into consists. The importance is the number of cars in the set - S means eight cars, R means six cars, L means three cars, irrespective of the actual makeup of the train.
- Watson374


Actually, S means four cars, eight car trains are two S sets coupled together.

Dave
- thadocta


Facepalm; that's right - because they list them as Sxx leading Syy. And yeah, R is for six cars that stay six cars and are not broken up, right?

Also, by UNDM, I'm not talking about DMs in the middle of the train - I do know that after the Tullochs were retired (thank the Maker) there was an excess of DMs and so DMs were crudely converted into Ts.

What I ask is, why weren't they converted into, say, NDMs? You would get the extra seats and stuff but you'd also gain more traction? 
 
R44 Chief Commissioner

Location: Moving paper
Anytime six S-Set type cars are together they are an R-Set
- Black1050


I direct you to here....



S123 and 1/2 of S124, It was mentioned elsewhere, and even if it was for a day, your comment is not necessarially true.
 
seb2351 Chief Commissioner

Location: Adelaide
Anytime six S-Set type cars are together they are an R-Set
- Black1050


I direct you to here....



S123 and 1/2 of S124, It was mentioned elsewhere, and even if it was for a day, your comment is not necessarially true.
- R44



Irregardless of what the number plate says (They are not going to change to the number plate based on a last minute decision) The way things are done is that an R set is 6 cars. Thats the naming convention.

Depots do not keep a never ending supply of R plates in the off chance that an S set gets surgery and 25% of itself behind.      
 
Watson374 Chief Commissioner

Location: Fully reclined at the pointy end.
Anytime six S-Set type cars are together they are an R-Set
- Black1050


I direct you to here....



S123 and 1/2 of S124, It was mentioned elsewhere, and even if it was for a day, your comment is not necessarially true.
- R44



Irregardless of what the number plate says (They are not going to change to the number plate based on a last minute decision) The way things are done is that an R set is 6 cars. Thats the naming convention.

Depots do not keep a never ending supply of R plates in the off chance that an S set gets surgery and 25% of itself behind.      
- seb2351


Let's just call it a series of S cars in an R config. due to exceptional circumstances.

My understanding is that L, R, S are for their normal config. i.e. when not broken up for one reason or another (subject to remarshalling - something that does happen; apparently there was a time they remarshalled the C sets into sixes but they went back to 4+4s again)
 
R44 Chief Commissioner

Location: Moving paper
I'm just bringing it up Seb, don't chew my head off.

On the note of never ending R target plates... You'd think that Hornsby would have a couple spare.
 
sandown Chief Commissioner

Location: sydney
I'd say "Rocket R Sets" are indeed another name for Super Six consist R Sets. There would be no other reason for calling an R Set a "Rocket". There are no "Rs with control cars only on the outer ends". There are no silver sets with control only or control/driving trailer cars.
- Black1050


However there are of course, 2 car K sets, whilst technically not a 'silver' in the same sense as a R, S or L.
 
A78 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Banned
L sets were the same as the 2 Car K sets They did local intercity area services and they were 2 Car also but I don't really know why they turned them into 3 car. All I heard was when the motor car failed the train couldent move so they added another one to the consist
 
A78 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Banned
http://m.flickr.com/#/photos/75529782@N07/

The link you have all been waiting for THE PHOTOS!

Well on another Note I saw a Driving Car with the closed up Air vents type so I'm considering them to be Series 1 Cars maybe?
 
HMC1989 Chief Commissioner

Location: Behind a desk.
A78, your link is still not working.

Here is a pic from the late 80's of a 3 car NC1 sitting at Wyee. They used to run from Fassifern to Newcastle.




Also the target plates are now made of black perspex with letter/number decals added and are rivetted on. That reminds me, our new S sets need targets. Carbuilders.
 
Watson374 Chief Commissioner

Location: Fully reclined at the pointy end.
A78, your link is still not working. Here is a pic from the late 80's of a 3 car NC1 sitting at Wyee. They used to run from Fassifern to Newcastle.
Also the target plates are now made of black perspex with letter/number decals added and are rivetted on. That reminds me, our new S sets need targets. Carbuilders.
- HMC1989


Yeah, they looked terrible - they looked like uncoupled trailers. Thank the Maker for the destos and yellowisation - gave it some direction. 
 
Aragung Station Staff

The Goninan cars still look terrible.  The Comeng cars are better in almost every way, IMO - they look and feel well-built while the Goninan cars just seem cheap. The kicker is the 'vents' between the levels which are just slits in the bodywork.
 
Watson374 Chief Commissioner

Location: Fully reclined at the pointy end.
The Goninan cars still look terrible.  The Comeng cars are better in almost every way, IMO - they look and feel well-built while the Goninan cars just seem cheap. The kicker is the 'vents' between the levels which are just slits in the bodywork.
- Aragung


Comeng cars happen to be the ones with the tapered (as opposed to flat) cab ends, right? Yeah. Another thing I prefer about the Comeng cars (not seen again until the Ms and Hs) is that the end vestibules are of equal length, giving more upper-deck space (Cs, Ks and Ts all have one longer vestibule.)
 

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